[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! 

[00:00:16] Rita Burke: Usually on this program, on this show, SpeakUP! International, we have been very fortunate to have conversations with individuals that we consider to be community builders. Today, there's one little exception. We've got two people that we consider to be community builders, and they are Mark Williams and Joseph Bonsu!

Now, let me tell you a little bit about Joseph. First of all, he is Toronto based. He's an illustrator and graphic designer. He developed a love for visual storytelling through comic books, animation, and character design. Throughout his career, Joseph has worked across illustration, publishing, advertising, and the education and entertainment sectors.

His work has included children's books, comics, educational illustration, and he has collaborated with organizations such as Scholastic Canada, the City of Toronto, and many more. I want to welcome you, Joseph Bonsu, to SpeakUP! International. And next, I move on to his partner, Mark Williams. 

[00:01:43] Mark Williams: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:43] Rita Burke: Who's a graduate of Sheridan's Illustration and Digital Animation program.

He is a multidisciplinary artist whose imagination has shaped ... His imagination is shaped by video games, manga, and animation. Mark's strengths include character design, story, storybo-

I, I'm missing a word here. Story bonding? And bringing bold ideas- Storyboarding ... storyboarding, yes- Yeah ... and bringing bold ideas to life through storytelling. He, like Joseph, is the co-founder of Heroes of the World. We welcome you both community builders to SpeakUP! International! 

[00:02:41] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Thank you. Hey. Hello, hello. That's an awesome introduction. Good morning. Good morning. Yes. Good 

morning. Yeah. That's an awesome intro- introduction! 

Thank you so much

I

[00:02:53] Ellington Brown: I'm shy. 

[00:02:54] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. 

[00:02:56] Ellington Brown: That's why you didn't hear, my voice. So I was saying, you guys, with this jolly good morning thing, and I'm just like, "What is this? I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet."

And so I can't say good morning. All I can say, all I can say is good- 

You know, good morning ... 

that's about as, about as far as I'm gonna go with this. 

[00:03:12] Mark Williams: In other areas, good afternoon, good night, so. 

[00:03:15] Ellington Brown: You know what? This question is for both of you.

Where are you guys from originally, and how did you two meet? 

[00:03:24] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Should I take this one? 

[00:03:26] Mark Williams: Go ahead, Joe. 

[00:03:27] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah, I'll take this one. Yeah, so we're both from, uh, Mississauga. Um, part- but specifically Malton. Shout out MA, all, all our MA people. We, um, yeah, man, we met, um, in, yeah, yeah, Malton. You know, where what was beau- what the beauty about living there is that we were closer to the airport, so if you ever needed to travel, it's just like hopping a skip away, but- It's like 

an 

airport

yeah. But I, I'm like, I'm digressing. But, um, no, we, um, we went to the same high school, uh, Westwood Secondary School, which is now Lincoln M. Alexander, and it was funny because he was in the old gr- Mark was in the greater, in like f- he was like three years or four years older than I am. So when I was in grade 9, he was in grade 12 I think it was gr- 12 or 11, uh, one of those grades.

But like, as me, me coming up as an illustrator or as an inspiring artist, at our high, high school, there were like four different... Actually, no. Yeah, there were like three, like, pillars when it come, came to art in our high school. There was Mark, there was Alistair Thomas, and then there was, uh, Sketch One, right?

And myself, myself growing up, I was like, "Okay, I gotta get to where these guys are," 'cause they're doing so mu- so many cool things around the school. Like Mark especially, he would do stuff for the school yearbook. And I'm like, "You know what? I need to be where Mark is," and like, and like, do, do artwork for the school yearbook.

And I remember one time, uh, I think this was 20... No, sorry, 2001. Either 2000 or 2001, he had shown, Mark had shown me some of his artwork, like all the fan art, all, all of his fan art from like the Nintendo games that he loved. We both loved the game called Secret of Mana, so he showed me fan art from that and I'm like, "Okay, I really need to hang out with this dude.

Like, I need, I need to stick with this guy." And, um, another thing, a real- a really heartfelt thing too was like, uh, those times I was being bullied, and I think it got to a critical point at like my tw- my last year at high school, my, my last year of high school. And I remember myself, I always, I w- we were talking about this the other day, Mark, and like- 

[00:05:51] Mark Williams: Yeah

[00:05:51] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I'll always remember the time where I was sitting by myself just- downtrodden from all the bullying, all the, all the BS, and then he was kind of the only one that came up to me and was, and, and spoke to me. Whereas everybody else was kind of like, "Oh, get away from me," or, "This guy's kind of weird." So, you know, I've al- I always respect that.

I always, uh, cherish that and respect that. So that's how we got, that's how we linked up, and I think Mark can, Mark can tell, talk about the rest. 

[00:06:25] Mark Williams: Uh, yeah, like, uh, when we got... Even though Joe was in a lo- lower grade and I was in a, a higher grade, but we were in the same class all the time. But then I saw his artwork, but I never put his artwork and him together.

I was like, "Who's this Joe guy?" Or, "Who's Jay- Jay Okon?" Then- Mm-hmm ... I was like, "Oh, that's Joe." But I didn't really put the, the artwork together, 'cause Joe had his, he had his, like, alter, alter egos, like Spider-Man. One was... I see artwork- Yeah ... but then I didn't know Joe was doing the artwork. Um, but then I found out after, um, down the line when he did something for Lincoln Alexander, like a artwork for, like a self-portrait for him in the school.

And I was like, "Oh, so that's Joe. Okay." Yeah. And, um, with, uh, Sheridan College, uh, for Art Fundamentals, um, I got, I got in and I was like, "Oh, I got in." But then I saw Joe at his workplace, like, uh, working at, like, side jobs, like fast food or- 

[00:07:22] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I was working at 

[00:07:23] Mark Williams: Wendy's ... it wasn't fast food- 

[00:07:23] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah ... 

[00:07:24] Mark Williams: Wendy's. Um, I was like, "Oh, I got into Sheridan College, Joe."

And he goes, "Oh, I got in!" And we're like, "Yo, we're gonna get together! We're gonna stay together!" So when we went to Sheridan College, it was a whole new ball game, and me and him were, um, straight out, out of Westwood going to a, a, a new ball game where we have, like, top of the class people going to Sheridan.

It was like Harvard. So- Mm ... even though we're doing Art Fundamentals, it was like there's a lot of people that are really good at artwork, so we had to step our game up there as well. And then, uh, we learned from them, too. So a lot of, we met new people, like our friend Aaron Ong. 

Mm. 

And a whole bunch of other guys, too, as well, down the line, like, like, they're all, like, they're all in the industry now.

Like, mostly, like, in either working at Sony, um, on, in the Spider-Verse or, um, working on side projects for video games, video game design and stuff. So w- we have a lot of friends doing that, so we still are even still trying to, um, level up when we ever see our, our friends doing their own stuff, and then they see our, us doing other stuff.

And then we also have other friends that aren't even in school, we met out of school, and they're even leveling up, so. 

[00:08:41] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. 

[00:08:42] Rita Burke: Sounds like you guys- Always, always- ... go back a long way, and that- Mm ... relationship That started off as a mentee and a mentor, one being the older, and it's, uh, now a relationship. It sounds to me like a brotherhood- 

[00:09:02] Mark Williams: Mm

[00:09:03] Rita Burke: between the two of you, and you're working together. So I wanna go back to something that Joe talked about, being bullied. Joe, who would wanna bully you, and why? 

[00:09:13] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Oh. Oh. No, you know what? I, I'll, uh, admittedly, I was a weird kid. I'm still a weird guy. I was a weird kid growing up. I, um, in Moulton, and I'm, I'm, I'm being real, like- A lot of the people, quite a bit of the people, I'm not saying everybody, but quite a bit of the people that we grew up with, they weren't They weren't into comic books and anime like we were, you know what I'm saying?

Everybody was an athlete. They were either an athlete or about the streets, and I was none of that. Marc and I were none of that. We were those weird kids- Mm-hmm ... that loved anime, comic books. I'm a huge, I'm a huge wrestling guy. Love WWE and AEW. But, um, I used to love those things, and at the same time too, I had a learning disability, so...

And that, that followed me from, like, elementary school all the way to high school. So people that went to school with me would always pick on me, call me the slow kid, call me that dude in class that's weird and talks slow and funny. And you know what? It j- I just used it as fuel to, like, improve on my schoolwork and, 

[00:10:27] Rita Burke: I guess you're laughing at them now, eh? 

[00:10:29] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I'm not even laughing. I, I would laugh, but I'm like, you know what? In hindsight they were going through sh- through some stuff, right? Yeah. So, I don't, I don't have... Before, I remember, like, I would say, like, my 20s, like, late, late teens, early 20s, I would harbor. There was still some resentment there.

But now it's like, it's just gone. Like, I, I remember certain things, but in the, in hindsight they were going through stuff, and all is, all is forgiven because it's not... Me, me thinking about those times is, uh, it's an anchor, right? It's a ball and chain. It's just gonna hold me back. So I just figured, you know what?

Let, let... It, it was just fuel for me to go forth and create awesome stuff, um, with Mark and, and with Heroes of World and whatnot. So, yeah. 

[00:11:27] Mark Williams: And, and the funny thing is, in my grade, even though he's looking at me, I'm getting bullied as well. But not as bullied as him, but I was being bullied by other people, and I also had a learning disability.

But it was not in, like... It was more the f- the, the classroom and the environment, trying to learn in a different way, and then they're like, "Oh, this guy learn in a different way. Why he's learning this w- way, and why we learning this way?" And they're... So- 

[00:11:53] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:11:53] Mark Williams: it's, it's funny that, um, the people in my grade are doing that to me- Huh

and he's doing, his grade, is in his... And then, well, then... But we're o- our own different paths, and then we come together, and now we're just creating stuff. And now people are like, "Yo, I remember you guys back in the school." Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, "Okay." Yeah, I'm like, "Okay, buddy." 

[00:12:14] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Oh my God. Oh my 

God. 

It's funny.

It's so funny. 

[00:12:18] Ellington Brown: With both of you having, uh, learning disabilities, how were you able to support each other? I'm assuming that you guys know what your, challenges are. So- Yeah ... how did you, how were you able to take those two and create yin and yang, I guess for the lack of a, a, a better...

How did those two complement one another? There we go 

[00:12:46] Mark Williams: Well, we're both artists. Um, but one thing I know that we from, from since the time from Sheridan to now, and from 2009 making the com- our comic book franchise, and also creating characters, um, my problem is, is like, I can, uh, obviously like, okay, learning disability of you got the language, English or whatever, but reading I can, we both can read, but I'm bad at spelling.

Joe's good at writing. And I was like, "Oh, Jo- Joe, you're like, like..." W- what we learned in school, if you're, if you're weak at one thing y- and you're strong at one thing, you foc- you, you, it's like working at a work, a job. So if this person really good at that job, they can do that job, but then I'll go and try and find something that I'm more, or I'll just do something, and then the person's like, "Hey, you're really good at that."

So I'll, I'll, I'll feed off of that. So when we were coming up with the ideas and stuff, I would just jump around the room, act out the what, what I'm thinking. Joe would be jotting down notes. And then when we were coming together drawing stuff, um, I'm talking about the character, then Joe draws the character, and he's like, "What do you think of that?"

I'm like, "That's pretty dope." And then it, then I'll say, "Let me see how I can put a spin to it," or, and I start coloring it or naming the character. So we bo- we, we go back and forth on, on ideas and also writing and also telling stories to se- 

[00:14:15] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:14:15] Mark Williams: um, to figure out what we're trying to create. Or even, like if Joe, like Joe's working on a new project and he's telling me about his character, and I say, "Hey, that character's cool, but you should add this into the character."

Or if I don't feel nothing's wrong with his character that he's creating, he can just go and do his thing. But when he's done the character and done the thing, I'll just check it out and like, oh. I try to put my, m- my spin to it of like, if I'm a, a person that's gonna buy this, what will make it interesting to it?

And then including even our, our business manager, Sean Cuffe, he has some kind of, of disability in learning, but he'll look at both of our work and then he'll say, he'll, 'cause he's the outside guy, he doesn't draw, but he likes creativity and he likes looking at stuff. So he'll just think from outside point of view of, if I'm a consumer, um, how is it, what's different in this which I will pick it up?

So yeah. So we work on, on just bouncing our, our, our skills that we, uh, that we, that we're somewhat good at. So. Mm-hmm. I do a lot of research too as well. So when we were making... Another case in point, when we were doing Heroes of the World stuff, I usually look at like, I, I always wanted to do archeology and as- astronomy.

So I look at a lot of history books, a lot of history channels, a lot of history, uh, movies, or even the shows and stuff. And I say, "Yo Joe, we should add this into it. Check this out." And then he was like, "Oh, that was pretty dope." And then- You'll get some ideas from it too, so, so yeah It 

[00:15:46] Rita Burke: sounds to me as if you guys work well together.

You balance, you balance each other out, and you capitalize on your own strengths, which is fantastic! I really like that. Uh, as we've been saying, you both are in the visual arts. So talk about what directed you, the decisions that led you into visual arts. 

[00:16:12] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Man, what led, what led us into visual arts? No, we were both, we're both fans of like the, of like the gen- like various genres, like video games, comics, um, movies.

I know, um Like, we both like the same video games. Like I said, Secret of Mana is one of our favorites. I know growing up, um, my brother, my oldest brother, Charles, was the comic book, uh, guy. So he would buy issues of X-Factor and, uh, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and I would, me, six-year-old me, or five-year-old me, would sneak into his room and, like, sneak, like, steal his comics, and then run downstairs.

And you know those ex- those, um, those exercise b- book- booklets with, like, the lined sheets of paper? Those were my sketchbooks. So I would go in and, like, try and emulate those characters and draw my own, my, my own spin on them and try and create my own comics, and that's, that's where it kinda, that's where it started, right?

And then in elementary school, a lot of people would see me draw these random characters that I would have on my trading, these trading cards I'd buy, and then they would be like, "Oh my gosh, Joe, can you draw this for me? Can you draw Cable? Can you draw Wolverine?" And I'm like, "Okay, sure." Ended up being the, the comic art- artist guy.

And then, like, I know Mark, um Marty's a huge video game guy Huge video game fan. 

[00:17:42] Mark Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, um, and what I did is I was not into- Yeah ... comic books that much. Like, I looked at the comic books- Mm-hmm ... I'm like, "That's pretty cool." Like, I saw the Iron Man thing, but, like, again, m- um, me with hand, with the, this ability of just, like, taking a book up and reading it.

I look at the pictures, I'm like, "Oh, that's pretty nice." But even the g- uh, video game magazines, um, I think of those, and I'm just looking for the next game that's coming out, and I'll, I'll read a little bit of just about it, but I, I, I'm more keen on if h- if something has really got artwork, I'll look at those things.

And I was using the video game magazines to understand how to do some, to draw from. Um, but then also, uh, like, I, I was big into video games because my friend, uh, Jeffrey, used to tell me to come over and watch him play video games, or, uh, if it's a two-player game, I'll play with him, or if it's, if his mom, watch his mom play video games.

So that's how I got into video games, 'cause, uh, he was always playing video games, I'm playing video games. We were both into gaming, and then it has became a gaming culture for me, even with the... Or, like, obviously, he knows it too. Joe, too, was, like, arcade, going to arcades and- Yeah ... putting quarters in.

Mm-hmm. Seeing the Street Fighter characters and stuff. So I was like, "One day I wanna do that." So I always looked at characters from those books and was very inspired by that. And down the line, too, as well, uh, the other thing that got me thinking of going to Sheridan College is I was hearing everybody's, like, uh, working in the industry of either Disney or even Pixar.

When Pixar came out with the 3D animation, I'm like, "Okay, forget about everything. I'm doing that now." So I've always wanted to be in, um, animation, um, visual effects, or computer animation, and work in films. And I got a job doing that. I was trying to g- and I was trying to get Joe to get into the same place I was working at.

Uh, but it's funny, like, obviously with, uh, the industry, uh, it was only, like, me and this other Black guy and whole bunch of Asian, uh and, and white at the studio. So- Uh, yeah. And, uh, working there is like work- Mm-hmm. I worked on S- uh, Chronicles of Narnia, uh, did the visual effects for that. And when I, when I got in there, I was like, "Okay, just go bring Joe."

And then they're like, uh, Joe came in, and then he went to the interview. Didn't get the thing. But then I, the... You got, you got the job there, right? Or you got interviewed? 

[00:20:11] Joseph Osei Bonsu: No. I d- I don't think they interviewed me. I don't, I don't- Okay ... I 

[00:20:15] Mark Williams: don't think 

[00:20:15] Joseph Osei Bonsu: they ever interviewed me, yeah. 

[00:20:17] Mark Williams: And then, and one thing that Sheridan didn't teach us is that it's gonna be side, it's gonna be contract work.

So when my contract was up, I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't know. I thought I was gonna have a full-time job." And, uh, down the line, when Joe was drawing, um, just doing something for fun, uh, in 2005, and drawing, uh... Not 2005. Yeah, 2005. Uh, drawing- drawing, um, his own interpretation of Captain America. Uh, and I was like, "We gotta make a demo reel again."

Um, I was thinking that in my head, and my- Mm-hmm ... sister's telling us to go to Caribbean and sell some stuff. So Joe was drawing his own interpretation of Captain America called Captain Ghana, and I came over and I say, "Hey, uh, we gotta, we gotta, gotta hustle." And he saw the thing and then he's like, "Oh, Captain Ghana."

I was like, "Okay." But then I was thinking in my head, I'm like, "Oh, draw stuff of Caribbean." And I ran back o- out from outside, inside his house. I said, "Hey, we could do the Caribbean islands." So we did Jamaica, Trinidad, and Barbados, and it was just a random idea just to get the thing out there. So even if I got lost a job at Soho VFX- 

[00:21:24] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm

[00:21:24] Mark Williams: um, using Heroes of the World as a leverage to do artwork, it was just a side thing and it became a, a whole... It just spiraled into a full-time thing, and then that led to other jobs, too, 'cause- 

[00:21:40] Joseph Osei Bonsu: So true ... 

[00:21:40] Mark Williams: it became... Yeah, it became ill- like, your illustrator, Joe. And like, 

[00:21:44] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mark is so, so right because what I always say, what I always say is that I'm al- always grateful for Heroes of the World because it was the window in which Mark and I got into this industry as illustrators.

Yeah. Like, it was the doorway, uh, window or even, like, the doorway, like, the portal that we had to go through to get into the industry. We couldn't get into the industry through, like, the studios because there is that unconscious bias that exists, and I'll, I'll, I'll straight up say it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

Yeah. When it comes to, like, Black creators. Yes. Mark, you know what I mean. You know what's up. Like- 

[00:22:17] Mark Williams: Yeah. Yeah!

[00:22:18] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Oh, man ... you know what's up. Like, it's, it's, I think, I feel like it's like that in all creative industries where it's like they'll only sprinkle one or two Black people in there, but then their diversity is, like, having all the other, the, uh, POCs, but I don't wanna get into that right now.

I don't wanna... I digress. 

[00:22:32] Ellington Brown: Oh, no. 

[00:22:33] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Um- 

[00:22:34] Ellington Brown: But that, that, that's, that's- 

[00:22:35] Mark Williams: But it was funny. One, one more place. I applied to a place where- 

[00:22:38] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:22:39] Mark Williams: the, the, the, the, they, they had a whole, um, before school was finished, they had, uh, people, different students coming into the place. And at one place worked on, like, worked on this, worked on a lot of Asian, Chinese games.

It was a Chinese lady, or I think she's Japanese, but she's Asian, and she owns the place, and she met me and met some other people, and like, "Yeah, you're cool." And when I walked in there it was all Asian people working on their games. I, I gave a demo reel in. My other friend is Asian. He, they, they, they let him go through and he goes, "Mark, if you want to go there, you gotta know math."

I'm like, "Why do I gotta know math? I have to know how to draw. What the..." They're like, they, in their, their place, there's like, "If you want a job here, you have to know how to do math." 

[00:23:21] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm. 

[00:23:21] Mark Williams: I was like, "What?" Like- Wow ... it's like a stereotypical Asian thing. But anyways, go ahead, Joe. No. 

[00:23:27] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Right. No, it was like- It's like, yeah, no.

With Heroes of the World we were able to, it's looked, it looks so good on our, on both of our resumes. Mm-hmm. We've been able to do various projects, go into various schools, attain various jobs. Um, I remember attaining the, um, the children's book. A couple children's book, book jobs were there only because I had Heroes of the World on my resume.

So- 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:57] Ellington Brown: It's great to have these, jobs. I'm gonna call them odd jobs because they help- Odd jobs, yeah ... fuel your, your imagination and provide money so that you can reach your goal. So I think most, uh, artists, regardless of their ethnic background, a lot of them go through that same process where they've got to- True

you know, claw their way into the industry. But once they get there, you know, it's, it's, uh, smooth sailing. So I wanna know, one, what is your favorite comic book? And, and I'm not talking about yours, I'm talking about other people's. Other people's, um, comic books. I don't want you telling me, "Yeah, you know, my comic book is really great!"

[00:24:49] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Oh. 

[00:24:51] Ellington Brown: You know? 

[00:24:52] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I love my comic book!

[00:24:53] Ellington Brown: I don't want, I don't want that. I, I wanna know, uh, and, and the reason I wanna know is because, all right, did, did both of you realize that you, you enjoyed a specific, comic, like, I don't know, Superman, the Fantastic Four. 

[00:25:10] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm. 

[00:25:11] Ellington Brown: Um, you know, one of those. Or was it some off-beat comic, uh, designer that you guys both found that you really loved and that was used to promote your vision?

And when I say promote, I don't mean copy theirs, but it gave you the inspiration to move forward. 

[00:25:37] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Are you, are you talking about past or present? Past or, yeah, or past or current? 

[00:25:42] Ellington Brown: Um- You can 

[00:25:43] Joseph Osei Bonsu: go, you can go past ... 

[00:25:44] Ellington Brown: uh, uh, one of you can go past and the other one can go present. There we go! 

[00:25:49] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Okay. 

[00:25:50] Mark Williams: Present. All right.

[00:25:51] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Um. 

[00:25:53] Mark Williams: Yes. 

[00:25:55] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I think I could go, if I could do both, I'd say, like, I, that's a loaded question, like, my favorite comic books. Um- 

[00:26:03] Ellington Brown: Okay. 

[00:26:03] Speaker 4: But, okay ... if I could 

[00:26:04] Ellington Brown: put three- F- for, for $10. No, go ahead.

[00:26:09] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Uh, I would say The Amazing Spider-Man.

Like the older Amazing Spider-Man comics. Um, All-Star Superman was one of my favorite storylines. Wri- written by, uh, drawn by Frank Quitely and written by, uh, Grant Morrison, who's an awesome comic book writer. And then the third one, like with particular arcs, is The Uncanny X-Men

Those, I would say those three are, like, top tier for me. 

[00:26:45] Ellington Brown: Okay, It's your turn, Mr. Williams. 

[00:26:47] Mark Williams: Okay. 

Well, mine's not comic books in general, 'cause I remember I just told you about not, like, looking at comic books that much, but mostly, like, comic book strips maybe, or, um, strips in the newspaper. Or even, uh, there's a small book that came out for, um, Disney called Adventure Magazine, and it's like these small little magazines.

In the back of it, they had little comic book strips or a thing. So there was a little comic book in there in the past, is, uh, called Bone-O-Phone, Phone Bone. Joe, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, it was some kind of- Bone but the Smurf ... like a little, but it was some kind of Smurf. Yeah. Anyway, um, I used to read those and I was like, there was...

I don't feel like it was an ending to the story, but I was like, "Why am I re-" I was reading it for just the sake of, 'cause it was very interesting how the design of these weird little white little mush- marshmallow kind of characters. And I, I... Joe already knows my, my inspiration was that I, I drew my own little Phone Bone thing with a scarecrow and a snowman.

Mm-hmm. Joe knows what those characters I made. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, down the line, like, um, the same present somewhat, not that far away in the future, um, but there was a comic book strip in, I think, in Essence Magazine. Um, and then they had a cartoon series called The Boondocks, and I got inspired by his, his anime take on Black art/anime.

So I was like, those two things, I have, like, some kind of imagination Smurf thing called Bone-O-Phone and Boondocks, and I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use those to my advantage." Yeah. And you did. Not, not the stereotypical comic book. 

[00:28:32] Rita Burke: And you did. Yeah. And you obviously did use it to your advantage.

[00:28:35] Mark Williams: Yeah. 

[00:28:36] Rita Burke: Well, as you can tell, Mark and Joseph, I am certainly not your age, and so some of the language in your bio, I had a hard time. So I'm gonna ask- Oh ... kindly, kindly, kindly tell me what storyboarding means, please. 

[00:28:56] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Storyboarding. Uh, so storyboarding is basically your... Storyboarding is, like, that, that, that concept's been as old as, as all the time, mainly in movies and TV shows.

In commercials, they use storyboards to map out the shots for the, for the final product. So, and it's kind of the sim- they're kind of similar elements to comic books where you have panels or different frames that you draw your different, your various shots in, and then you can, from there you can establish where your wide shot, what your wide shots will look like, where your close-up shots will look like, what your medium shots will look like, um, how your titles will wipe and what will wipe into the, what will wipe in the frame.

So that's how, uh, that, that's pretty much it, the, that's pretty much the gist of storyboarding. Um, we use a similar, uh, we use a similar, um, uh, type of thing with laying out, with laying out comic books. So before we do, like, the final comic book, we'll lay out all the panels, and this is right after the script.

The script's written and approved. We'll lay out all the panels, lay out where all the characters are, are placed. Usually when you, um... With storyboards, with any type of thing, you always gotta think of the 360 rule. I think it's the 360 rule, the 180 rule But you gotta wa- be aware of, uh, where your characters are placed on f- in the frame, and where the camera, where the camera is.

So those are some s- Yeah ... some things you would have to remember for boarding. 

[00:30:36] Mark Williams: Yeah. 

[00:30:36] Joseph Osei Bonsu: And market telling, yeah. 

[00:30:38] Mark Williams: But then though, like Joe's right. But then I also, we... Joe, on a side, got the job when I told him to work on doing movie sets. And on movie sets in, in Toronto, they have the storyboard out there laid out, and they were filming.

And we were al- both went to, Joe, Joe went to digital media arts, I went to, um, illustration. But they both have like storyboard courses. 

[00:31:01] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:02] Mark Williams: So we knew from those, from those options, we found out how to break down how to do storyboarding. So sometimes even though, um, Joe's right, like we're doing like a comic book, we sometimes make it even like very cinematic in our way of thinking.

Like how will the shot gonna look like? Um, don't make the shot look boring. So- 

We're always thinking how, where the camera's gonna be placed. And even in computer animation, um, if you're doing a short film in computer animation, uh, you gotta know where the camera's gonna be shot. Like you're the director, the producer, the artist, um, the c- the cameraman when you're doing computer animation.

So that too is well integrated into the way of how we're con- coming up with the storyboarding, 'cause you're boarding a story. So yeah. 

[00:31:54] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And I know in the end it's a 3D animation. It's, um, when you do, when you do, when you arrange those type of shots, it's called an animatic. 

[00:32:04] Mark Williams: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:05] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. 

[00:32:05] Mark Williams: Yes. 

[00:32:05] Joseph Osei Bonsu: The animatic.

Right. 

[00:32:07] Mark Williams: This is... A- it's, um, animatic means, like, animation but not with animate, ani- m- animating anything, just gain automatic shots. Yeah. So animatic. So. 

[00:32:19] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:20] Ellington Brown: I truly understand w- the, the process. I used to work for Disney, so- 

[00:32:27] Mark Williams: Oh, so you know. Okay. 

[00:32:29] Ellington Brown: So working- Mm

for Disney is you get the... I mean, they would have r- rooms where the entire room would be engulfed with this storyboard. Mm. And so they had these. And then they would have these huge, 

[00:32:42] Joseph Osei Bonsu: uh- Mm-hmm ... 

[00:32:43] Ellington Brown: stock paper, and there were drawings on each. But when you thumbed it, thumbed the paper, you could actually see the, the progression of the, the film.

And th- those things- Yeah ... took hours for those guys to, to put together, and to get them, as you said, the correct positioning. Because, you know- Yes ... well, sometimes he says, "Oh, okay. We're gonna have Superman fly right now." And they're like- Mm ... "How can he fly when he's already in the air?" Right. Can't do that, man.

You gotta, you gotta come up with a new, something new here in order to get this- Mm-hmm ... going, to go right. Okay. So my question, uh, is about your education. How did your education help guide you into creating the comic book structure that you guys use?

[00:33:39] Joseph Osei Bonsu: How did the education, how did their education guide us? Well, Mark 

[00:33:43] Mark Williams: I mostly say anything you learn you can use to your advantage. So even though I took computer animation, I was taking part-time graphic design at Humber College. Um, I took gra- um, part-time animation at Sheridan, and, uh, and then I took the illustration course and even an art fundamentals course.

So I was like, w- was it a waste of time, certain courses? I think so, but then I don't think not, because everything you learn from other courses you took, and also the students in the class, um, you can use to your advantage to build- Very important ... on skills. And the same thing, Joe. Joe took digital media arts, right?

And- Yeah ... computer animation. What was the other one, Joe? 

[00:34:26] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah, so I w- I was at Sena- Seneca Polytechnic. Shout out to Seneca. Um, I, uh, yeah, I took to digital media arts, which is now interactive media design, and that’s where, going back to storyboarding, that’s where I learned the concept of storyboarding and, like, graphic design like Ma- Mark.

And then did digital, also did, uh, followed in Mark’s footsteps and did digital animation with the hopes of getting a job in that industry. And meanwhile, yeah, meanwhile we would both go to, like, life drawing courses and, you know, learn from different stu- different students and peers on various techniques.

And also look, and also look to some of the techniques that were found online. You know, I always tell- 

[00:35:05] Mark Williams: Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's true. You're right ...

[00:35:06] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah, I always tell the youngsters, um, when I facilitate or mentor, is that you w- were in an age where all this information is al- it's j- the access to it is so easy.

Like, it's on Pinterest, it's on YouTube, it's everywhere. So besides Sheridan and s- Seneca, we also learned through, and through our peers, we also learned stuff online too. Mm-hmm. And it's continuing, right? Yeah. You, you never- Yeah ... you don't stop learning when you leave those places. You're always, we're always trying to learn new things, or even, and even so, going back to basics.

I really lo- love going back to basics and learning the foundations every now and then, so. 

[00:35:49] Rita Burke: You know, you- Can you pos- 

[00:35:49] Mark Williams: Yeah ... 

[00:35:50] Rita Burke: throughout, throughout our chat, you have been talking about, or let's say at the top of this conversation, about having learning disabilities. 

[00:36:01] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:01] Rita Burke: Do you still feel you have learning disabilities, and was that a disadvantage for you navigating your way through college, what have you?

Talk about 

[00:36:12] Mark Williams: that. I'm, uh, I mean, for myself, they still were thinking of, like, a disability in learning. 'Cause when I was in Humber College I was trying to get in full-time, and they were taking COM100 and COM200. I was not really good at writing, so they're, they're, they automatically put me in the class.

Like, they were like, "Oh, we're gonna put you in this class now." And I was like, "Where am I?" And it's where people are straight off the airplane, they don't know to speak English And I was like, "Wait, how'd I end up here?" They're like, "We're gonna write the letter A." I'm like, "I, I'm born here. I know, I... W- why am I doing..."

And then they're like, "What are you doing here?" I'm like, "I don't even know." So then the, the counselor took me out of there and said, "Hey, we have to put you back at where you were." So I went back to Com 100, 100, and then the lady's like, "Oh, I took him out of the class because he's not really good at writing."

I'm like, "He's not supposed to be in the class that has the people flying in that don't know to speak English." So I, I, I was actually glad I didn't get into Humber College because when around that time during the, the test, I got into Sheridan, and I was like, and she goes, "Oh, you're gonna fail this." I'm like, "Well, it doesn't matter.

I'm going to Sheridan." So, uh, so I got into Sheridan, and it was all concentrating on artwork. But they had, they did have classes where you had to do reading and writing, too, as well. So, like, the question you're saying about, um, you, your disability is still there. But what, what I say for myself, I try to work around it.

And, like, in computer animation you have... Like, before you have to, like, create skeletons and characters. 

[00:37:48] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:49] Mark Williams: And there is a lot of computer tech talk, which, like, you know how you were saying there's certain words we don't... You, you don't know about storyboarding. But there's even bigger words in computer animation where it's called, like, FKs, IKs.

I'm like, "What is an IK and FK?" So in my disability, I thought, "Okay, if I'm not really computer savvy, and I'm a person, gonna tell a person about how computer animation works, how could I make it sound very simplified?" So if I was gonna tell... Like, for example, when I was te- teaching Joe a little bit, so I'm like, "Joe, when you get into Sheridan," or not Sheridan, "When you get into computer animation, this is what you do."

And he's like, "What's this FK thing?" I'm like, "No, just collect the, connect the dots. There's a dot here, and then a dot here." Okay. So, so I was thinking- But- ... artwork. Go ahead, Joe. 

[00:38:38] Joseph Osei Bonsu: And then when I got in, I was like, I can easily pick it up, 'cause Mark gave me the heads-up. I was able to pick up all those concepts, 'cause they were talking about those same things, like the FK, the RK.

It's part of what we call rigging in, uh, 3D animation, where you create your skeletal character, and then you have those, those d- various joints. So I was able to get the, like, up on it. But, 

[00:39:01] Mark Williams: um- So yeah, so using, making, making the thing more simplified instead of- Mm-hmm ... complicated. And that's another thing, too, as well.

Like, everybody, go do Joe's, um, classes, or when we do teach k- kids, we try to simplify s- stuff. 

[00:39:15] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:15] Mark Williams: Saying like, okay- We don't, we, we talk about our learning disability there, but we say, "Okay, we're gonna show you how to do it more simplified," so you, so you won't be very, uh, lost in what you do. Yeah. So, and we try to tell them like, "Hey, we have a problem sometimes, so we're gonna help.

We're gonna work out how to work with you and your learning, and if you have a disability, but we're gonna learn around that disability." 

[00:39:40] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. You know? Or just like- 

or just like acknowledge, ac- uh, to acknowledge it too, right? If you have that, people- Yeah. 

[00:39:49] Ellington Brown: Our people carries, uh, so much shame. 

[00:39:54] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. Yeah ... 

[00:39:54] Ellington Brown: it's a degrading factor in our lives. We carry it. 

[00:39:58] Mark Williams: Yes! 

[00:39:59] Ellington Brown: And for us as educators and leaders, we must, we must remove these stigmas, because they're only- Yes ... holding us back. They're not holding anybody else back. No one else even believes them.

No one even cares! But we're the ones that are stuck with this shame! We need to- Yes ... always step up and say, "Okay, you know what? We have these challenges, but we figured a way to work around it, and so we're gonna give that, uh, instruction to, to you." And I think that is, that 

[00:40:32] Mark Williams: is- And, and, and it's, uh, it, and it goes down to what you said before.

Back in the day, they, they didn't make Black people read. They didn't want the Black people to read, right? Yeah. So- Read? ... w- even if we don't know how to read, we don't know how to read, we still know how to build all this technology and making all these inventions. So. 

[00:40:51] Ellington Brown: Well, you know, 

[00:40:52] Mark Williams: you really- They're like, "Oh, so stupid are you?"

I'm like, "Am I?" I'm like... 

[00:40:56] Joseph Osei Bonsu: And just talking about the stigma thing, uh, Elton, like we, I'm a firm believer in we don't need to be on all the time. 

[00:41:06] Mark Williams: No. 

[00:41:06] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I'm a very firm believer in that, where it's like- Yeah ... you know what? If we have those disabilities, if we have those ailments, let's acknowledge those. Let's acknowledge those.

Let's, let's sit in, let's sit in that. Let's not sit in that too long, but let's acknowledge people and be like, "Hey, I have this thing, but I still have the strength to keep going and keep doing the thing that I'm doing." And like Mark said, we go, we, I, uh, ca- uh, we'll still build stuff, we'll still create things regardless of our, o- of our thing.

And you know what? It's okay to have, it's okay to have those ailments 'cause you have other, you have strengths in other, in other areas. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:48] Speaker 4: Yeah. 

[00:41:49] Ellington Brown: So when you are creating your work, how difficult, difficult is it to get individuals who are non-melanated to accept your, your work? Because, uh, your work looks like me.

Okay? Uh, looks like Black people. It looks like any other color but wh- but white people. Yeah. So how do you, you know, get past that s- again, stigma. How do you get past all of this when your work is, from what I s- from what I've seen, is flawless. So it shouldn't be a difficulty. It should be just, boom, here it is, and people should say love it, and they take it.

But tell me, are there any challenges in getting individuals to see what you see? 

[00:42:53] Joseph Osei Bonsu: There have been challenges in the past. I know when M- M- M- Mar- I know when Mark and I have gone to different conventions with Heroes In The World- Yeah ... you know, majority of the people will love the, love the idea, but then you'll have those few, those obvious few that will look at it and be like, "Oh, what is this?

This is so goofy." Or, "Why are this..." W- what was the another comment? 'Cause I don't really- Oh- ... pay attention to them, but, like, there was one, like, Mark, if you remember. 

[00:43:27] Mark Williams: Go ahead! 

[00:43:29] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Do you remember one? 

[00:43:29] Mark Williams: I, I was just, I, I wanna say mostly the person that we went to school with. He goes, "Oh, the characters all look the same all the time still."

[00:43:36] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah! It's just like- 

[00:43:39] Mark Williams: I was like, "Wait a second" ... everything 

[00:43:40] Joseph Osei Bonsu: look the same. 

[00:43:42] Mark Williams: I was like, "The flag's all the same. We try to change up the look, but keep the flag how it is." 

[00:43:48] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah! 

[00:43:48] Mark Williams: I'm like, "Why you gonna... What?" I was like, "Okay." 

[00:43:51] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Because with all the research that we've done- I, I, I mean- So sorry to cut you off, Mark, but, like, with all the research that you do, all the re- all the, all the different designs that we g- that we give these characters, all the cultural stuff, you think they would pay attention to that, but then they just look at the, the, the initial thing and be like, "Oh, every character looks the same.

It's all cookie cutter." You know, generally we just want to, with those non, with those non-Black, um, audiences, we try and create our characters in a way that's familiar to them. You know what I mean? Like mixing, like I know Mark, Mark, Mark and I, we're, we're big in mixing anime into a lot of our s- a lot of our stuff.

Or- 

[00:44:34] Mark Williams: Yeah ... 

[00:44:35] Joseph Osei Bonsu: mixing a lot of the video l- l- mixing some of the aspects of video games, or certain ideas- Yeah ... from comic books that we love into, into our, into our work. So I think that's how we get them. 

[00:44:45] Mark Williams: Yeah. Even with our front cover. Like, sometimes we give a vari- a, a, like, we, we're doing variants or- Mm-hmm

uh, different front covers, even like a, Joe already knows anything, uh, uh, like back in the day what they used to do for comic books. Mm-hmm. So but I thought in my head, I'm like, okay, if we're gonna do variant covers, we'll, if we go somewhere, we'll make sure, one, um, we can do something that we like. Then the two, the second one, we gotta do this to the, for the people that are like, "Hey, I'm gonna pick it up because of that."

And the third one will be like, okay, I'm just gonna just do something totally opposite from one and two, but still keep elements from both of those- Mm-hmm ... in a, in a way. So- With the one that people like, like as Joe said, make something maybe more anime for the anime people. But then there's people that don't really look at comic books, but then they see their country, and they're like, "Okay, we gotta put all the countries in there so people like, they'll gravitate to their country if they don't like the character."

So what we learned, or I even say like even like with graphic design, how do you get the customer's attention? Just like when you go to a grocery store and what my teacher said, um, do you have a whole bunch of Frosted Flakes on the, on the, on the display. What made, what people pick up that Frosted Flake from the other Frosted Flake?

[00:46:06] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. That's it. 

[00:46:09] Rita Burke: So Mr. Mark and Mr. Joseph, I would like for you to share with us, with our audience, three things that you admire about yourself. Three aspects- Oh ... about who you are that you really admire, you like

[00:46:26] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Should I go first? 

[00:46:27] Rita Burke: You can start. Any, any- 

[00:46:27] Mark Williams: Yeah, go ahead, Joe ... start. 

[00:46:29] Joseph Osei Bonsu: All right. Oh, man. Um- 

[00:46:32] Mark Williams: All right ... 

[00:46:32] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I'll start off with I like how I, um, I like how resilient I am. You know, I don't wanna get into it, but I've been through quite a bit You know, things that would, um, make people, make, make people would be, be like, you know what?

Screw it, it's done. Game over. But, um, I'm here now and I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad for that. Um, I love how creative I can be You know, um, the creative but like in the sense where I can go somewhere and, or, or be somewhere and just think of anything or draw anything on the, on the, on the, on the drop, at the drop of a hat.

You know, I love, I love, I love having that ability. And then the third one is, um

 I just love how I'm trying to do... I, I just, I love how I, I, I now love how kind I am to myself. I wasn't kind to myself b- back in the day, and I love how I ha- I have that ability to just be kind to myself and to let myself know, and let me know that, you know, I'm doing my best. And I'm gonna have good days, I'm gonna have bad days, but, you know, I'm still, um, I'm still here.

And I, and you know, I'm, I'm... and I just wanna say I'm just try- I'm trying out here, you know? I'm trying to be the best friend, the best brother, the best everything for people and, you know, it's, uh, best son. So that's, that's it, man. I just, I'm just here. I just love that I'm, uh, kind to myself and I'm just trying.

Yeah. 

Oh, 

[00:48:25] Ellington Brown: okay. You know, it, it is so important that we as as a people are able to be kind to ourselves. 

[00:48:32] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:32] Ellington Brown: And to always p- uh, allow there to be a s- significant bottle, a huge bottle of, forgiveness. Always have a bottle of that because if you don't, you, you're not going to get ahead.

You're not going to- Sure ... uh, meet people, the people that you guys need to meet in order to get your work out there, which is something I'm really hoping that you guys continue doing. So where do you see- Yeah ... yourselves, let's say two years from now? What do, what do you guys wanna do?

[00:49:12] Mark Williams: Uh, well, we went to a lot of places like Dragon's Den, um, Netflix, uh, BBC. Even like Target or George Lucas somewhat, um, for our own brand. But mostly just trying to be the same way those other people are having their own stuff and just doing, being creative, making things. That's what I, I think, like, well, Joe's, w- as well, like, we wanna be creative and just keep going.

Even with the, the world of AI and also a- artificial intelligence out there, um, coming up with new ideas and waves of how to maneuver through the, the world of art and technology, uh, and still be here doing, doing what we like to do, so. I see in the n- next years, next five years, uh, that we'll get more, uh, maybe, uh, well, I guess funding and recognition.

'Cause recognition goes into funding- 

[00:50:14] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:50:15] Mark Williams: so we can create more. And yeah, I guess, I don't know, that's where, that's where I'm thinking. Yeah. 

[00:50:22] Rita Burke: Mr. Mark Williams, I didn't hear the three things that you admire about Mark. 

[00:50:27] Mark Williams: Oh. S- well, I just, I somewhat said, like, what Joe said it was for the r- resilience.

That's one. Two, um, I like, uh, about myself is I'm always curious of how the world works and education- Mm-hmm ... of the, of the knowledge. Like, I, I feel like the whole world is somewhat lur- Like, I was big into Rubik's Cubes, and also, any of those Rubik's Cubes, trying to figure them out. So I always look at the world as a Rubik's Cube, trying to figure out how the system works, what's around the next door.

So I'm always very curious of, like, I'm like Da Vinci Code. I'm always trying to figure out how the world works, and I, I'm, I'm, I'm enjoying myself b- being that kind of person that's always asking why, and finding more information, but you never stop- Finding the word why because there's always another door opening for learning more.

So, and that's another thing too, me, uh, being a person always trying to, uh, uh, think I'm not done yet learning and understanding how things work. 'Cause people are like, "Oh, you're really good at doing this." And Joe already know that, "Wow, you're a good artist." I'm like- Yeah ... "Really? Good. Gotta step it up still."

Well, you know, they're like, "No, you're still good." I'm like, "No, I'm not." Mm-hmm. But I'm still, still learning, so. And even with the new technology right now, like we're going against robots. So I always tell Joe, I'm like, "Okay, this, these robots are here, but how could you... You can't beat the robot, but how you can maneuver with the robots."

So even learning that too. Like, I don't like learning AI, but it's here, and you gotta learn whatever's there 'cause you don't wanna get left behind i- in the world of whatever we're trying to build. But not use it to your advantage, use it as a tool. Some people are still using it as end all be all, I'm like, then you're stupid.

Yep. Because you're letting something think for you. So that goes back again, me figuring out how a Rubik's Cube works kind of thing, so. So yeah, I'm just always trying to figure out things. It's life. So yeah. So- I think 

[00:52:39] Ellington Brown: I did three, 

[00:52:39] Speaker 6: didn't I? How many... 

[00:52:40] Ellington Brown: Yeah. You gave your, you gave your three. So that was, that was six.

So that's one point for you. Oh, damn. Zero for, for us. You know, Rita and I, we don't get any points because we don't, we didn't answer that, answer that question. But that's okay. There was six 

[00:52:53] Joseph Osei Bonsu: of those. They did three. Yeah. 

[00:52:55] Ellington Brown: And,

okay. Oh, man. So when do, when do you think your time will come? 

[00:53:08] Speaker 6: On what? ByBlacks 

[00:53:10] Ellington Brown: Oh, what you do. Spike, man. What do you think? Oh, you know what? I'm going to get you a coffee. 

[00:53:16] Joseph Osei Bonsu: I'd say, I'd say, Elton, any time now. Any time now it'll come. 

[00:53:20] Mark Williams: Yeah. 

[00:53:21] Joseph Osei Bonsu: It'll come tomorrow. Hoping. It'll come in two years. Yes.

It'll come, like, we're ready for anything. Mark and I are ready for anything with this point. Ideally, with, like, Heroes of the World, we, um, we definitely want it on television, on, uh, on the streamers, video games- Yeah ... toys. We also have a studio, um, that we're develo- Yeah, tell me about that ... we, we've been developing called Hot W Studios, which is housing other IP- 

[00:53:49] Mark Williams: Yeah!

[00:53:50] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Aside from Heroes of the World. So we're ready. We're ready any- we're ready at any time. Our, our time will come at any, at any point. It's just- 

[00:53:59] Rita Burke: You know, we didn't get you to tell us about Heroes of the World. We kind of touched on it a little bit. So how about we go out singing and dancing and all about-

Heroes of the World? 

[00:54:12] Mark Williams: Heroes of the World

Okay, Mr. Jim 

[00:54:18] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. Okay. So Heroes of the World, it, uh, like, like we mentioned earlier, it started in '05. A simple idea. I was drawing this character named Captain Ghana. Mark took notice of it, and Mark was like, "Yo, what is this?" And I'm like, "Yo, this is Captain Ghana. I'm just here drawing and doing the thing."

And then he had told us, like Mark said before, um, his sister had kept telling us to, like, sell our artwork or do some stuff for Caribana. You know, the ideas were dope, but they weren't to our liking. You know, not discrediting her or anything, but, like- Yeah ... they weren't our thing, and then Mark came. Mark, I remember that day Mark had come to my house and then left and then came back and was like, "Wait a minute.

That thing with Captain Ghana, what if we took that and applied it for all the Caribbean islands?" So we each did our iterations of, like, those Cara- Caribbean heroes. Um, Mark ended up pa- e- ended up, um, getting like eight half by 11, um, posters printed. We got lawn chairs and from my k- I, we got lawn chairs, uh, a table.

I got my mom's, like, thing table the day of Caribana, and we just went down to the parade and sold these prints for, like, $5, $10 apiece, and, like, the feedback was, like, very, very positive. And then as the years gone by- Mm-hmm ... the demand grew for more countries. You know, so I think around- Beautiful ... the 2006 World Cup we ended, Mark ended up creating more chara- characters for, for other countries.

And then by '08, um, so when Mark, uh, Mark was also, Mark was also a performer, dancer, and his agent at the time, Sean Cuffe, um, big ups to him. He's, uh, the head of the Black Diamond Ball. He took notice to the Heroes of the World through Mark, and then eventually he would come on as our, as our business manager, and then he would help us restructure, restructure the brand.

So it was once Super Heroes Unite. It was Heroes of the Caribbean at MySpace. 

[00:56:25] Mark Williams: Yeah, myspace.com. 

[00:56:26] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. And then eventually it was Super Heroes Unite. But at the time we couldn't use, when registering the, the, the, the brand or the bus- the incor- incorporating the business, we couldn't use superheroes 'cause it's copyrighted by both Marvel and DC.

So we ended up sticking with the subheading of Superheroes Unite, which is Heroes of the World, hence why you have Heroes of the World. 

[00:56:50] Ellington Brown: Hey. 

[00:56:51] Mark Williams: Exactly. And it made more sense anyways. Um- Yeah ... our business manager, he was writing, he was like, "Oh, we got a name or something." I was like- Yeah ... "Well, there's a subtitle on the bottom there.

See if that's not registered." And then he found out, he's like, "Oh." And it made more sense anyways, so- 

[00:57:04] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm-hmm ... '

[00:57:05] Mark Williams: cause it was more like a general saying. Like, Superheroes Unite is nice and all. 

[00:57:09] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Yeah. 

[00:57:09] Mark Williams: Uh, it still means, like, the heroes are uniting, but when you say Heroes of the World, y- y'all, y'all world of superheroes, right?

So, yeah. Good. And, and from doing that, it, it even led to in around, I think, 2012, we were at the auto show and our friend, it was one of our friends that was a team lead for it. He's like, "I'm from Canada, I'm from Montreal. No, Quebec." I'm like, "That's good. It's part of Canada." "No, no, no." And he, and then we He's like-

"I'll pay for Quebec. I want Quebec." So we did Quebec, and then we had Quebec there with Canada. And then we went to Quebec Comic Con, people like that. But we went to Toronto Comic Con, and even at the, the studio that we're at, people are like, "Yo, why you have Quebec? Why there's no Tor- where's no Toronto man, man?

Toronto's big." So I'm like, eventually I was like, "Okay, Joe, maybe we should do Toronto." But I was like, "Man," I'm like, you know, like, might as well to do all countries. But even when I went to, with my, uh, wife, um, down the line, my girl- she was my girlfriend, we went to, uh, Puerto Rico and I had brought the American superheroes 'cause I know Puerto Rico is part of America.

We had P- America and Puerto Rico's, trying to advertise in Puerto Rico. And I met an American lady and she goes, "That's not my flag." I'm like, "America, isn't it your flag?" "No, no, no." And then she showed me the Pan-Africa flag. I didn't even, I really was, my brain was not really keen on understanding the world somewhat and I said, "Okay, I guess we'll do Pan-Africa."

So I did Pan-Africa and with Joe, and I was like, "Okay, that makes more sense." But then even in Uni- in the United States, they, they, they're even more segregated. Right. They're like, "I like Chicago" and like, "I like New York." So I'm like, "Okay." So down the line now we're gonna do all of the United States and all of Canada as a superhero, of the provinces and cities.

And then, and if the countries in other regions have smaller places, we do that too as well because they want to get represented, and plus also the First Nation too. So, and it works out in their benefit because a lot of people get representative, it works in our story, and yeah, it's Heroes of the World.

[00:59:20] Joseph Osei Bonsu: That's it. 

[00:59:23] Ellington Brown: This has been a wonderful, conversation this morning. I am so proud of the both of you for what you have done going to be doing in the upcoming years. Rita and I really hope that you'll come back to us as you move closer and closer to your goal, or as life sometimes- Or.

Yeah, because sometimes life may say you're going this way thinking this is the goal, but life says, "No, it's over here." And so you move with, you know, you move with that. So it's, it's very imp- it's very, very important for us as Black people to be proud of each other for the accomplishments that we do. Get rid of that stigma of shame.

[01:00:14] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Right. 

[01:00:14] Ellington Brown: And to continue to look at individuals like you who are a inspiration to our community, communities, and even for, those who are no longer, with us, for we are standing on the shoulders of many. Rita, I'm sure you have s- something you wanna say before we officially conclude. 

[01:00:37] Rita Burke: Yes. I, I do want to say to Mark Williams and to Joseph that this has certainly been a delight to listen to you tell your own stories, and that is the rationale, that is the purpose, that's the philosophy of SpeakUP! International.

We want our community leaders or community builders to tell their own stories, so that when children a ye- 100 years from now want to do some research, they hear you telling your own stories. 

[01:01:11] Joseph Osei Bonsu: Mm. 

[01:01:11] Rita Burke: And you have told your story so beautifully, so wonderfully, that it reminded me as you were telling of our ancestors who never gave up.

Learning disability or not, shackles or not, they never... They forged through, because those things are distractions to stop us from moving towards our North Star, and that is what I hear, that is what I see, that is what I feel as you told your story today. So continue moving towards whatever your North Star is.

Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. 

[01:01:50] Mark Williams: You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for 

[01:01:52] Joseph Osei Bonsu: having us. 

Appreciate it. 

[01:01:55] Mark Williams: Appreciate it! 

[01:01:56] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact our guest, Joseph Bonsu and Mark Williams, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Joseph or Mark at linkedin.com. Joseph and Mark have other social media accounts you can use to connect to them that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms.

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