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[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! 

[00:00:17] Rita Burke: There seems to be a trend. Yesterday, we spoke to a homegrown community builder, and today again we'll be speaking to a homegrown community builder. To be exact, we'll be speaking with Rosemary Sadler, who is a Diversity Inclusion Equity consultant and a social justice advocate.

[00:00:43] Rita Burke: She's also a researcher, author, and was a president of the Ontario Black History Society for 22 long years. Rosemary has spearheaded the establishment of February as Black History Month [00:01:00] nationwide and secured the recognition of August 1st as Emancipation Day. Rosemary has played a pivotal role in the creation of the National Day for the Honourable Lincoln Alexander.

[00:01:18] Rita Burke: In addition, she has provided expert input to various organizations on race relations. Rosemary has contributed to African Canadian curriculum development, national exhibits, and publications. She is the author of seven books on African Canadian history and is committed to social justice. It certainly is with pleasure and delight that I introduce our listeners to Ms.

[00:01:50] Rita Burke: Rosemary Sadler!

[00:01:53] Rosemary Sadlier: Oh, wow! Thanks so much, Rita. That was quite an introduction. 

[00:01:59] Rita Burke: [00:02:00] You have spent a lot of time over 20 plus years to help our communities move forward and receive, or should I say take, what belongs to us Black History Month was something monumental. It was a monumental task in order to have this month recognized as Black History Month in Canada.

[00:02:36] Rita Burke: Can you tell some of the steps, sacrifices that you had to make in order to make sure that we, as a people, have this month for ourselves? 

[00:02:54] Rosemary Sadlier: Wow. L- before I answer that, let me just say that I absolutely [00:03:00] am building on and standing on the shoulders of so very many people that went before me and people who helped me along the way.

[00:03:08] Rosemary Sadlier: And while we won't go into all of the details I do wanna honor Dr. Carter G. Woodson 1926, having the idea to have this opportunity to focus on the contributions and achievements of people of African origin in 1926, and how that grew and ended up coming into Canada under the auspices of the Canadian Negro Women's Association.

[00:03:35] Rosemary Sadlier: The first celebration within the Black community was hosted by a person who went on to become a, a citizenship court judge, Stanley G. Grizzle. And ultimately, it landed with the Ontario Black History Society in 1978, and by 1979, they had secured the first official proclamation of [00:04:00] Black History Month in in Toronto.

[00:04:03] Rosemary Sadlier: And it w- that sort of brought it from being a thing that happened perhaps in the Black community in Canada to a thing that happened very broadly in, in the community, or at least the beg- was the beginnings of that. Then we jump forward a few years, and I become the president of the Ontario Black History Society after having been a volunteer presenter, a volunteer board member and presenter for a couple of years building up a community of interest, going into schools, going into bookstores, going into many public spaces advocating and encouraging people to learn more about Black history in this country, because I think that was the...

[00:04:52] Rosemary Sadlier: It still is, frankly, but it was definitely one of the hurdles, the idea that there were Black people in Canada it, [00:05:00] everybody who was Black had to have been from someplace else and just arrived, as if there was one boat that arrived one day and everybody got off in 1967 which was really far from the truth, and I knew that from my own lived experience, never mind my research.

[00:05:16] Rosemary Sadlier: When I... That was among the things that I was finding repeatedly. And I think it's important for people to realize that part of the, the challenge was just helping to educate people that Canada had its own history of Black history, if that makes any sense. I, anyway, I started this process of I realized when I became president, very accidentally, I showed up on time for a meeting-

[00:05:46] Rosemary Sadlier: that we almost lost this formal proclamation with the city of Toronto. I was at home with three kids. My youngest was still nursing. I didn't know I was supposed to [00:06:00] go to the city of Toronto and say, "Please, may we have Black History Month." And I did what I could to pull that together quickly, 'cause we'd missed the deadline.

[00:06:10] Rosemary Sadlier: And I thought, "Okay, this is not, never gonna happen to anybody again." So I got it for that for, in, I became president in 1993, October, November, around that time. So I was able to get it for Jan- for February 1994. And I also worked on making sure that we got it with the province of Ontario, and I began the process of asking various members in the federal governments to- make Black History Month a national thing.

[00:06:45] Rosemary Sadlier: I wasn't hearing back from people. And this is a time when it was hard to follow up because it meant a long-distance phone call, which was an expense, and I was not paid. I had no budget to do that. It meant mailing letters, [00:07:00] which took, delayed response time or faxes, which were terrible because the ink tended to rub off once they were received on the other side.

[00:07:11] Rosemary Sadlier: Th- that ... It was just not ideal. So I happened to run into one MP at a fundraising event at the home of a well-known Black man in Toronto, Denham Jolly, and I ... He was holding a fundraiser for Jean Augustine, and I confronted Jean and asked her if she would support this. And she spoke with lawyer Lloyd Lloyd.

[00:07:41] Rosemary Sadlier: Oh my gosh, what was Lloyd's last name? Anyway, that lawyer. He was, ... It'll come to me in a minute. She went to another room and spoke with him briefly, and when she came out, she had agreed that she would support this initiative. So that meant that I was now supplying her [00:08:00] office with Black history information on an ongoing basis.

[00:08:04] Rosemary Sadlier: I created the first Black history website in Canada, which doesn't exist anymore. It was ... But it was, I did it. And by December 1995, sh- her office contacted me to let me know that I should watch CPAC because the final reading was going to happen, and it was going to ... It was hoped that it would be passed.

[00:08:27] Rosemary Sadlier: It was passed, and then I was in- the only non-elected person Yeah in Canada, 

[00:08:38] Rosemary Sadlier: To join the platform party which was the Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chretien, the Black Caucus, which was a handful of Black members of Parliament, including of course Jean Augustine, and a couple of others, to address the nation on the occasion of the first[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Rosemary Sadlier: Excuse me. The occasion of the first Black History Month in Canada. So all that to say that it was a lot of resilience and patience and hope because it wasn't the kind of thing that required armed masses. It was the kind of thing that required determination. And growing up in this country and having had the experience of repeatedly hearing that we were not here, that there was no Black population, that if there was a Black population we hadn't done anything, the counter to that in my mind was affirming our presence through having something such as February as Black History Month.

[00:09:55] Rita Burke: And to all of that, I lift my hat and [00:10:00] I applaud you, Rosemary Stadler, for having had the wherewithal, the nerve, the guts to pursue having Black History Month celebrated nationwide. We really applaud you for that. I like something that you said, that they always thought that the boat just came in 1967 and dropped us all off.

[00:10:22] Rita Burke: That is fodder for humor, but I'll let us pass by that right now. You have done a lot of advocacy work. Some of ... Share, share some of it with our audience please, apart from the Black history stuff. 

[00:10:36] Rosemary Sadlier: Okay. I guess the other one would have ... i'm Opal Lee. I think that's just the reality.

[00:10:43] Rosemary Sadlier: In around the same time I was approached different routes, but same ef- e- intentionality. I was approached by the president of the Caribbean Historical Society of Trinidad and Tobago, and he felt that we [00:11:00] should, in Canada, should be also celebrating August 1st as Emancipation Day.

[00:11:05] Rosemary Sadlier: And he, I got this phone call at home, because before COVID, there were actually people who did what they did out of their homes, and I was, so Satur- one Saturday night at 10:00, I get this phone call from a stranger, and this is what the, the conversation was about. He remained in, in Toronto for a couple of weeks, and we were able to do a number of things while he was here and it including planting the seeds to having a successful passage of August 1st as Emancipation Day with the city of Toronto, with Metro Toronto, and ultimately with the city of Ottawa.

[00:11:41] Rosemary Sadlier: He went back to Trinidad. I continued that advocacy and it went to, it ultimately resulted with the first unanimous bill with the province of Ontario that was passed in 2008 led by Ted Arnott, Maria Van Bommel, [00:12:00] and Peter Kormos. So all three political parties worked together to support this and make A- August 1st happen in 2008.

[00:12:10] Rosemary Sadlier: But it had gone to second reading nationally with o- on a private member's bill that was put forward by Deepak Obhrai who was a, a member of parliament for Calgary West, and he, freedom was very important to him because he had been expelled from Uganda. But unfortunately, he died before it was ever passed.

[00:12:33] Rosemary Sadlier: Then it went to second reading twice in the Senate under Senator Wanda Thomas Bernard and didn't pass. And it wasn't until a motion by Majid Jowhari that it was ultimately passed unanimously in Canada's House of Commons in March of 2021. It only took over 25 [00:13:00] years to see this out. 

[00:13:02] Rita Burke: Only 25 years.

[00:13:03] Rita Burke: Now, Rosemary, before Elton asks his next question, let me dig deep into this question about August 1st. Why should August 1st be significant for our community?

[00:13:21] Rosemary Sadlier: If Black History Month says that we're here, then I think August 1st answers the other question of how were we here, and what did we do? And a- although both come up, August 1st ca- the sense of what is Canada is challenged by August 1st. And August 1st Canada is a, a wonderful place to be. I, it's there are n- there is no perfect country in the world that I'm aware of.

[00:13:58] Rosemary Sadlier: But one of the [00:14:00] narratives that, one of the things that people think they just understand about Canada is that people can come here to be free. And that idea came from the fact that there was this thing called the Underground Railroad which brought people who were enslaved and wished to be, wanted to be free, of course, into Canada.

[00:14:24] Rosemary Sadlier: But what happens is that's a particular point in time that obscures the reality that prior to The end of slavery prior to, that Canada had its own history of slavery that was ended, and at the end of our slavery, that's when people could start pouring into this country to be free. So it's an interesting interpretation of times and dates.

[00:14:55] Rosemary Sadlier: July 1st, 1867 is when Canada became Canada, [00:15:00] and technically Canada did not have slavery July 1st, 1867. But the lands that we now call Canada did have slavery for 200 years prior to 1867, and that slavery existed from f- for sure from 1628 with the arrival of the first named enslaved African, but there was, there were other sla- enslaved Africans here before that and did not end until August 1st, 1834.

[00:15:34] Rosemary Sadlier: So 1834 is a troubling and wonderful moment in time when the slavery that existed in, on the pl- here ended, and it also is a date that connects us to other places in the world that were controlled by Britain because it was the British Imperial Act that ended slavery in British countries such as [00:16:00] Jamaica British-controlled countries or Trinidad and Tobago at one point in time.

[00:16:09] Ellington Brown: You contribute so much of your time and yourself o- over a span of many years. Tell us about your contributions to the Royal Ontario Museum. 

[00:16:27] Rosemary Sadlier: I've done a couple of different things with the Royal Ontario Museum. I was on the Africa committee, which helped, which came into being once the new Crystal Wing was established.

[00:16:41] Rosemary Sadlier: And the new Crystal Wing w- it's a very unusual looking addition to the very traditional, formerly r- incredibly traditional looking ROM. They wanted to expand the collection out, and they w- wanted to work with members of the community, including a few members of the [00:17:00] community to determine how they should do that.

[00:17:03] Rosemary Sadlier: And one of the things that we really hoped they would do was include Egypt in the African section, because that is essentially what the Crystal was part- partially going to be housing. But they were not willing to move Egypt from where it was situated in the museum. So that was a bit of a, an unfortunate aspect to that.

[00:17:29] Rosemary Sadlier: But some of the, the good part of that is that I was part of the unveiling of a permanent exhibition created by an artist called El Anatsui, and that still remains as part of the Africa exhibit at the ROM in the new Crystal Wing. I also was part of, although I didn't organize it, the event which marked the apology of the ROM to those members of the community [00:18:00] who had been harmed by arrests and negative commentary following their protest about some horrendous and racist exhibits that the ROM had hosted in the past.

[00:18:17] Rosemary Sadlier: Some of those people actually had to leave the country in order to thrive. So the- Yeah ... the, the ROM is is complicated. I remember visiting the ROM at some point in my life and seeing some s- an exhibit, I don't know what the exhibit was called, and there were statues, images, artwork of animals, and with the animals were also statues of Black African people.

[00:18:47] Rosemary Sadlier: They're all the same, all animals. 

[00:18:50] Rita Burke: As you speak, Rosemary- 

[00:18:53] Rosemary Sadlier: But the ex- sorry, I should just qualify, the exhibit that they were most protesting was called Into the Heart of Africa, and that exhibit- I 

[00:18:59] Rita Burke: [00:19:00] remember that story well, and I know s- I know several people who were directly involved, and they're still around.

[00:19:06] Rita Burke: But as you speak, I feel a sense of determination. I feel a sense of hope. There's no question about that. Because generations following us need to see that determination and that hope in generations ahead of them so that they could embody those things to move our community forward. Now, who is your audience for equity, diversity, and inclusion?

[00:19:39] Rita Burke: Who's your audience? 

[00:19:43] Rosemary Sadlier: Everybody. I think I think, yeah, just what you were saying. On one hand, people who look like us need to know that there are efforts being made to support and encourage and, create whatever, depending on what the issue is Black voices [00:20:00] and Black inclusion, Black representation.

[00:20:02] Rosemary Sadlier: But it's also for who in my instance, because I'm now doing diversity, equity, and inclusion also as a consultant, it's those entities that will consider hiring me and or that those entities that want me to come in to do a keynote speech or a workshop. And those entities have been very diverse from suppliers of beauty products all the way to law firms.

[00:20:33] Rosemary Sadlier: And I think that, one of the wonderful, terrible things that followed the murder of George Floyd, even though that took place in the United States, was a spark in consciousness and awareness that w- I hadn't seen ever before where people who don't look like me were aware even if they didn't want to be aware [00:21:00] that there were clearly some discrepancies and inequities that were being, that were there in the society.

[00:21:07] Rosemary Sadlier: And I've done things with women's organizations as well, where people need to also understand the significant experience of Black people and the challenges that we face as a group. No matter how long you may have in, resided in Canada or the United States those challenges persist.

[00:21:30] Rosemary Sadlier: But it's also I think, It's, it I wanna s- like in terms of the things where I'm not hired, the things that I just do because they're important to me, it's because the work isn't done. I nominated, for example Olivier Lejeune for National Historic recognition. That process took about, I don't know, five years.

[00:21:54] Rosemary Sadlier: And finally it was approved, and there was going to be a monument created for him, [00:22:00] and it happened in October 2023. And I'm just gonna share this with you actually, because it's such, it speaks to the how things are so-

[00:22:13] Rosemary Sadlier: Unexpected. So I'm in Quebec City for the unveiling of a plaque dedicated to the first named enslaved African in Canada So I got into Quebec City and the night before I'm at a hotel and I go for a walk in the neighborhood because I'm thinking, "I'm not hungry but I'm, I want something." And all the restaurants near where I was staying to me seemed to be lovely places for couples to gather, and I didn't feel like I wanted to go in as a lone person.

[00:22:55] Rosemary Sadlier: And Engli- French is my second language, not my [00:23:00] first language. So I thought, "Okay, I'll just have something to eat in the restaurant in the hotel." I stand there because there's a sign indicating that you should wait and you'll be seated, and somebody kept coming by, walking by, looking at me, walking by, looking at me.

[00:23:20] Rosemary Sadlier: The restaurant is not full. The hours, it has-- wasn't the closing time. Kept walking by. Finally, the person comes to me and says, "You're still here?"

[00:23:37] Rosemary Sadlier: And I said, "Yes I would like to be seated." And he said, "Oh, we don't serve... You're not... I'm, we're not serving you. I you can't... We're not serving you." And I'm looking at him thinking, "Did I just mishear?" And I realized I'm working now in English. He's working in English. He's trying ... I've been doing French and he was clearly telling me that he was [00:24:00] denying me service, and I was ... It ... I've never ... i've experienced all kinds of racist things in my life, but I've never had something like this where it's so blatant, clear, and in-my-face.

[00:24:13] Rita Burke: So in-your-face. 

[00:24:15] Rosemary Sadlier: So I turned around and I spoke to the front desk people of the hotel.

[00:24:20] Rosemary Sadlier: And I had been ... We had a great relationship. I did my, my, registration in French, so w- we were friends, but they also had ... knew s- how to speak English. And they said ... Long story, but they basically said it had happened before. So I wrote a very long letter to the hotel manager and sent it to him.

[00:24:42] Rosemary Sadlier: He met with me the following morning, and it's not resolved because I haven't found the ways to work it through the Quebec system. I know what I would do if it was in Ontario. But the point I'm, I guess I'm trying to make is that every once in a while, aside from the fact that [00:25:00] people think that there are no Black people in Canada still, that w- we've, we're all recent arrivals, that we've done nothing there's also this reality, this other idea that we're post-racial and everything's okay.

[00:25:16] Rita Burke: Yes. 

[00:25:17] Rosemary Sadlier: And ... Thank you for that laugh. And that was for me just one more reminder that everything's not okay that we're not post-racial, that the challenges are still real. Yeah. 

[00:25:32] Ellington Brown: I agree with you about the joy of George Floyd incident, and it did open the eyes of many people, non-Blacks, to the point where they were protesting in the streets saying how wrong this is.

[00:25:52] Ellington Brown: And thank goodness that we had the technology to be able to record it [00:26:00] so there was no need to explain anything or to describe how the situation was. We were able to see it for our own, using our own eyes and not have to- justify it or ex- or try to y- weaponize it. It was just, it's there.

[00:26:22] Ellington Brown: It was just there. And I think you do the same thing in your publications where you are allowing individuals to read African Canadian history so that they understand it for themselves, not listening to somebody else. So tell us what notable publication have you authored on African Canadian history that has made an impact?

[00:26:57] Rosemary Sadlier: I've actually written eight books, Rita, [00:27:00] and one, one is just coming out now and the book that's c- that's ki- you can pre-order it now on Amazon, but it's called The Kids' Book of Black History in Canada. And it's a completely updated, revised version of my bestseller that I wrote a number of years ago called The Kids' Book of Black History.

[00:27:22] Rosemary Sadlier: And it's got all new artwork and it meets a need that I have, a personal need, because I think that Black History education is something that needs to start early. Now, this isn't a kids' book like for, grade one. This is a kids' book for middle school, and I think it's also a good read for

[00:27:42] Rosemary Sadlier: a good general read for people that want to become acquainted with the topic, and then they can, go and do additional research on certain things. But that's one book that I have coming out, The Kids' Book of Black History in Canada by Kids Can [00:28:00] Press. But I've also written books about Black women.

[00:28:03] Rosemary Sadlier: I've written a book with others on Black history. It's called Black History: Africa, the Caribbean, and the Americas, which was done by Iman Montgomery Publications in Toronto and has been updated and is now issued by Delmore "Buddy" Daye Learning Centre in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I've written a book on Harriet Tubman that's with Dundurn Press, and for that book the research I did for that book is o- over years, and I actually had the opportunity to meet some of your American followers might appreciate that this, some of the American descendants of Harriet Tubman.

[00:28:45] Rosemary Sadlier: And I was able to re- at one number of years ago, to reunite some Canadian descendants of Harriet Tubman with some American descendants of Harriet Tubman in Philadelphia at Mother Bethel AME Church. And that, [00:29:00] one of those American descendants actually is m- was, she's deceased now may she rest in peace, was Marilee Wilkins.

[00:29:08] Rosemary Sadlier: And she seemed to have been able to acquire all of Harriet Tubman's possessions, many of them, including a shawl that had been given to her by Queen Victoria. And before it ended up in the Smithsonian, I had the chance to hold that, and a number of other artifacts. S- I've done a book on Mary Ann Shadd Cary and a few others.

[00:29:36] Rosemary Sadlier: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:38] Rita Burke: You talked about your kids book of African Canadian history, and I've said this to you many times. I don't know if you remember me saying, "Rosemarie, why call it a kids book?" Because I like it. It's a staple on my bookshelf. And as you said, there's no question about it, for anyone wanting to begin learning about African Canadian history, [00:30:00] that should be their go-to.

[00:30:01] Rita Burke: And I'm really delighted to hear that it's being revamped, and it's going to be available very soon. It's one of my favorite books. 

[00:30:09] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you. 

[00:30:09] Rita Burke: One of my favorite. It's on my shelf. 

[00:30:11] Rosemary Sadlier: I actually, I can't... I don't have the copies, but I have, I was finally sent a hard copy, and it's amazing. But you- most people can only pre-order right now.

[00:30:22] Rosemary Sadlier: I don't think that they can get their own copy in hand for another month or so. 

[00:30:28] Rita Burke: So you talked a lot about everything that, to me, wraps up the word hope, the word determination. What is a quotation that guides your life?

[00:30:45] Rosemary Sadlier: That's a hard question because there's so many. I I would probably connect it to my church. And one of the things that came out of that I think I internalized way too well was not for ourselves, but for others. [00:31:00] And my mother was a missionary with the BME Church, and that was their motto.

[00:31:05] Rosemary Sadlier: And because I got dragged along to a lot of meetings that she had, I was referred to for a very long time as the littlest missionary of the church. But that motto really, I think, it did come to direct so much of what I have done, and I think that it makes it very easy for me to hold the needs of the community a- as a trustee rather than to own and- Have a different kind of agenda.

[00:31:37] Rosemary Sadlier: But I think when I'm talking to people also I think there's so many more cr- more current ones, be the change you want to see. Everybody has something that they can do in the area that they are working, because Black history is not just names, dates, and events. Black history is about having all of our [00:32:00] story, all of our complexities included in everything.

[00:32:05] Rosemary Sadlier: So it isn't just about knowing that there was slavery. It's about knowing that we are great artists. It's not just knowing that we were we, Mar- Mary Ann Shadd was the first Black woman publisher in North America. It's also about knowing that we have these amazing spoken word artists that we can go and see.

[00:32:25] Rosemary Sadlier: It's all of it, because we are so underrepresented. And I'm just gonna say this, Amer- African Americans may not realize this, but in Canada there has been no required Black history programming. And so it isn't like we're looking at a, a population of people who have some background.

[00:32:47] Rosemary Sadlier: They, they do not. Black history comes up maybe when there's Black History Month. And while there are pockets across the country where there are n- there is now some measure of a [00:33:00] Black history curriculum it's not universal. There's, most places don't have Black history.

[00:33:07] Rosemary Sadlier: So having, doing the books or doing the advocacy is a way of helping to raise awareness and encourage other people to get involved. 

[00:33:18] Ellington Brown: There are many people that Rita and I have talked to who are moving in, in that direction in order to make these things happen, where Black history is a normal part of Canadian history, not talked about as something separate or something that's supplemental, but actual Canadian history.

[00:33:47] Ellington Brown: I wanna move to something- that I've been dying to talk to you about I have seen your face all over LinkedIn 

[00:33:58] Rosemary Sadlier: I'm so sorry. 

[00:33:59] Rita Burke: [00:34:00] And there's a and there's- Oh, guys. Oh no, don't be sorry. Ooh. And there's a reason. Y- you've received an award. So can you tell us about your most recent award that you received?

[00:34:15] Rosemary Sadlier: I guess I've received two recent awards. One was the first award of its kind ever issued by the Toronto Police Services called the Terry James Trailblazer Award for my efforts to initiate and initiate the formal commemoration of February's Black History Month, and that happened at the beginning of the month.

[00:34:42] Rosemary Sadlier: And then at the end of the month, the end of February, I the public announcement was made that I have been, I'm about to be awarded an honorary doctorate from University of To- OISE University of Toronto. 

[00:34:58] Rita Burke: Three cheers, three cheers, [00:35:00] three cheers well deserved, Ms. Rosemarie Saddler. 

[00:35:03] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you. And I'm really honored by that.

[00:35:06] Rosemary Sadlier: Some really amazing people are also going to be getting a doctorate at the same time as myself. But yeah, I, completely unexpected.

[00:35:18] Rita Burke: So you often speak with groups. You speak with young people, you speak with older people. I think sometimes you also speak with children. 

[00:35:29] Rosemary Sadlier: Yeah. 

[00:35:29] Rita Burke: What three gems would you give to a graduating class of educators? You had an opportunity to speak with them. I want to hear three gems that you would leave with them.

[00:35:43] Rosemary Sadlier: I always try to encourage people to look at the history and look at the challenges that people had previously. See where they find themselves now with fewer horrendous challenges, but still [00:36:00] challenges, and see where they, what they can do with the skills that they have to make a difference. I encourage people to look for areas that are u- unjust, unfair, or problematic, and find ways that are within their interest area.

[00:36:17] Rosemary Sadlier: If they're a scientist, then you do it through science. If you are an athlete, you do it through athletics. What- whatever it is you can do, there's a way to use what you have to address some element of Black history, Black joy, Black something. Do it. Do that. And I think the other thing is if they can't do it that they should support those people who are.

[00:36:45] Rosemary Sadlier: Support those organizations that they are comfortable supporting. Support those students who they think they can support, depending on what kind of audience I'm speaking to. I, I think it's about an ongoing effort [00:37:00] of us doing what we can, and us as in Black people who ha- are facing these issues, but also the non-Black people I'm speaking to who consider themselves unable, but that maybe they are able.

[00:37:16] Rosemary Sadlier: Maybe there is something that they can consider doing too. Allies are always helpful.

[00:37:23] Ellington Brown: Rosemary, it is always good to talk to you. We always feel really energized and inspired, and to pick up the sword and, armor and continue the ever-ending battle against racism. We talked a lot about your contributions to Black communities, such as Black History Month in Canada, [00:38:00] which I'll say again was a monumental task for you to be able to get that through the establishment for August 1st as Emancipation Day, your contribution to the Royal Ontario Museum.

[00:38:20] Ellington Brown: Okay, and I'll have to say this, I don't like the shape of it, but okay. I had to s- I had to say that. I would've died if I didn't say that. And d- you have talked also about how you distinguish yourself as a diversity, inclusion, and equity consultant, and social justice advocate. All of these things are so important.

[00:38:44] Ellington Brown: And your 22-year tenure as president of the Ontario Black History Society, all of these things are so important, and you are going to be, or you are [00:39:00] one of those giants that people are going to have to stand upon in order for our communities to reach new heights. And I can't wait for you to come back and visit us again.

[00:39:16] Ellington Brown: Congratulations on your last two awards, and congratulations for your upcoming book, which should be out in June, if if I remember correctly. And I really... By the, oh, yes, and by the way, I've already ordered the book, so I want to, I had- ... I had to say that. I saw the cover, and immediately I fell in love with the book.

[00:39:41] Rosemary Sadlier: It's, the artwork is lovely. I just have, I'm not an artist, but the art- the previous book, the artist was not from the African Canadian community. This artist is from the African Canadian community. 

[00:39:54] Ellington Brown: Oh, wonderful. 

[00:39:56] Ellington Brown: That's, that makes Rita so happy. I, 

[00:39:58] Rosemary Sadlier: I w- 

[00:39:59] Rita Burke: I [00:40:00] want to thank you again, and we're not going to allow two plus years to pass by before we have an opportunity to talk to you again, Rosemary.

[00:40:10] Rita Burke: I promise you that. And you have a great morning and a wonderful weekend. 

[00:40:17] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you. You too. Thanks 

[00:40:18] Rita Burke: so much Thank you so much. As usual, it's al- always a treat, a delight, a pleasure to chat with you. You certainly enlighten, you certainly inspire, you certainly educate when you tell your story. And as Elton said, this time you get in touch with us when you wanna talk about anything specific, and we would certainly be delighted to have you.

[00:40:42] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you so much for that invitation. I appreciate it!

[00:40:46] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact our guest, please be prepared to submit your name, your email [00:41:00] address, and the reason why you wish to contact Rosemary Sadler at linkedin.com. Ms. Sadler has other social media platforms that you can use to contact her that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms.

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[00:41:59] Ellington Brown: You can [00:42:00] also find our audio podcast at www.speakuppodcast.ca. Our logo has a woman with her finger pointing up, mouth open, speaking up. As soon as the website passes inspection, you will be able to gain access to the audio and video versions of each podcast using the following link, www.speakuppodcast.ca.

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