[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!

[00:00:17] Rita Burke: Today we will be talking with Mr. Ardavan Eizadirad. We've interviewed people from a wide variety of career sectors and career fields. We've had leaders of union movements, we've had authors, we've had visual artists, we've had educators, we've had authors. We have also spoken with individuals from across the globe.

[00:00:48] Rita Burke: Today, on SpeakUP! International, we invite you to hear the story of an individual who is an educator at the postsecondary level. [00:01:00] He also is a qualified teacher with the Ontario Teachers Association. He is a man who is attempting to break down some systems that hold people back in terms of equity, diversity, and those kinds of things.

[00:01:21] Rita Burke: So today I welcome to SpeakUP! International, Mr. Ardavan Eizadirad! 

[00:01:28] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Thank you for having me! 

[00:01:31] Ellington Brown: It is definitely a pleasure having you with your busy schedule. I'm ecstatic because, uh, I can imagine your schedule being quite tight. You use a quote that was mentioned by Muhammad Ali, so can you tell us what that quote is and how it relates to you and your organization?[00:02:00] 

[00:02:01] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah. Thank you. Um, I mean, the quote by Muhammad Ali, who for me is the greatest athlete of all time, is the quote, "Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on Earth." And I think what really stands out to me about that is, you know, Muhammad Ali was willing to give it all in terms of his belt being taken away to really stand up for, um, his values of not, um, enrolling in the Vietnam War, um, at the time, uh, where they were called upon to go to war.

[00:02:28] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so I think it speaks in the air- in the arena of equity work of it's often a upstream battle, uh, of going against systems or not stating a pop- popular opinion. Um, and so it speaks to the risks we have to take, the intentionality and the strategic, um, aspect of this work, um, and how do we combine the two to try to create systemic reform or mitigate or dismantle those barriers, particularly for [00:03:00] identities in, uh, equity deserving groups such as indigenous folks, Blacks, um, two-spirit, LGBTQ+ identities, racialized immigrants, refugees, many more.

[00:03:11] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: They all have, uh, many unique challenges and systemic barriers and inequities they face on a reality, and they're often perpetuated through systems. So I'm really interested in, uh, taking a conversation from individual acts of meanness or discrimination to really systemic apathy, systemic neglect, uh, and systemic, uh, discrimination.

[00:03:33] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, so I'll leave it at that. 

[00:03:36] Rita Burke: You talk about intentionality, and that is so important. But does that mean that one has to 24/7 be always focused on equity, diversity, inclusion? 

[00:03:53] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: That's a really great question. I mean, I think, um, a different way of looking at it is how can you be your [00:04:00] authentic self, um, at all times?

[00:04:02] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: That doesn't mean you have your advocacy hat on 24/7 because doing equity work is spiritually, mentally, and physically exhausting. So ra- matter of fact, you actually do need to take breaks, and when I say take breaks, that's when you go back into communities that you belong. That's where the conversations happen.

[00:04:22] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: That's where you ask for others and elders for guidance. Um, that's where you kind of nourish your soul to be able to do the work. Um, that might be, uh, taking a break for parenting. Um, that might be spending time with a loved one or friends. I mean, self-care is gonna look different for everybody, but, um, it doesn't mean you are go, go, go 24/7.

[00:04:44] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: But I think sometimes you step back to strategize and to heal, and you come back, try to align your actions with your values. And when you can do that, I think you, you are, um, serving your life with a purpose and, um, you are more aligning your [00:05:00] actions with what you want to see in terms of changes. And I try to do that in my two roles.

[00:05:06] Rita Burke: What you said about going back to community is so critical. It's so important. Indeed, that's where we get our nourishment, that's where we get our spiritual strength so that we could come back and face the battle again. So thank you for responding to that question. Yeah, 

[00:05:25] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: No problem! 

[00:05:27] Ellington Brown: So how can we effectively engage and collaborate with multiple stakeholders to advance equity, diversity, and inclusion within our community-oriented, place-based approach?

[00:05:45] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah, I mean, I think it really, uh, comes down to relationship building and trust. Um, equity work at its core is building those relationships. Um, it's with, with schools, with community organizations who provide, um, [00:06:00] continuing care through services in evenings and weekends, so synergizing, uh, what happens during school hours with what happens on the evenings and weekends.

[00:06:09] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, it's building trust with the representatives, um, from the institutions, uh, whether that's the justice system, the healthcare system, the education system. And it's also really how do you bring them together? 'Cause often they work in silos. Maybe they don't communicate, or they don't share the data, and that itself becomes a form of a systemic barrier, um, when the onus now falls on the individual to navigate these systems w- instead of perhaps streamlining the process, providing culturally reflective services, providing it in locations and places that are accessible.

[00:06:46] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So really, um, the stakeholder piece is very important. And the one last thing I'll emphasize is, how do we ensure we get folks in positions of leadership and power who come with the lived experience? It's not just about [00:07:00] educational background or having a PhD, but how do they directly involve in community and in terms of the issues they are impacted by to be able to have that authentic voice and understand the complexity and the nuances involved when we look at violence, when we look at school push-outs, when we look at the healthcare, uh, barriers, and so forth.

[00:07:23] Rita Burke: I so agree with you in terms of the systems, the organizations, the various whatever in... Well, I was gonna say in Canada, but generally, how they work in silos. They don't know what each other do, and so it's really, really important for us to try to maybe connect some dots, help them connect some dots my next question to you is, what does the chair of equity, diversity, inclusion, and indigenization do? 

[00:07:58] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Great! So I wear two hats, [00:08:00] um, in community. Uh, one, I'm an assistant professor in the Faculty of Education at Wilfrid Laurier University. Um, and another hat, I'm the executive director of a nonprofit in the Jane and Finch community called Youth Association for Academics, Athletics, and Character Education.

[00:08:16] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Really, through both roles, I try to do a lot of advocacy. Uh, one way is through writing. Uh, all my writings is my form of advocacy, kind of challenging what is normalized within our systems and how we can find solutions. And when I arrived at Wilfrid Laurier University, uh, in 2020, I wanted to create a space where, um, raw, authentic ideas that were student-led can be discussed and cultivated and curated.

[00:08:44] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so we really start out small in numbers, uh, five to 10 folks, uh, many of them teacher candidates in our two-year program who are studying, um, to become Ontario-certified teachers and teach within the school boards. And, um, you know, we had to come up with the name. We [00:09:00] co-constructed a mission statement.

[00:09:02] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: We had a f- uh, graduate student, uh, Beezie, um- Create the logo, uh, different logos, and then we finalized it. And so our mission as it stands now is to disrupt, question, advocate, and create change through dialogue, collaborations, partnerships, events, and resources to advance the work of equity, diversity, inclusion, and indigenization as a collective coalition within the faculty of education and the larger community.

[00:09:32] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I mean, I co-chair it now, uh, with a wonderful colleague, um, Dr. Jennifer Straub, who's indigenous. As you know, the work of indigenization, I think, has to be led by indigenous voices and indigenous communities. But the work of decolonization, uh, can happen by all others, including allies, um, those who show solidarity, those who co-conspirators.

[00:09:55] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so, uh, since then, we've grown quite a bit. Um, couple of things we have done [00:10:00] is, um, you know, we've really advocated for pronoun use in classrooms, uh, on, on Zoom, uh, within course syllabi. Um, we've been able to curated, uh, a resource list for educators because many were like, "We want to do equity work. We don't know where to begin."

[00:10:18] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So with a group of students, we curated a website that has, uh, different themes around equity and, uh, discrimination, uh, French resources, um, to help them get started. It has a brief summary as well as how it can be used with what grades. Uh, we implement a section on EDI and I within our lesson plans. It's what the teachers use, um, to prepare their lessons.

[00:10:42] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And as in events, we've done some, uh, film screenings looking at over-incarceration of indigenous women, a school-to-prison pipeline, these phenomenas and what barriers are contributing to perpetuating that. And with high school students, we're look- we're working very closely with the Waterloo school boards.

[00:10:59] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: [00:11:00] Um, there's a lack of diversity in the teaching workforce in Ontario and on a larger scale in Canada. We brought together about fifty students from equity deserving groups for a day of activities on campus. Um, and we try to inspire them to consider teaching as a career. And we're trying to grow the event from last year to now.

[00:11:19] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: In two weeks on November eighth, uh, we're trying to do it again with about a hundred students. Recognize events are not a solution, but it's one thing on a journey, so we want to continue to build relationship with the school boards, to continue to support students and inspire them to enter teaching because we need teachers who look like them, who talk like them, um, who can relate to them in order to inspire folks to kind of stay in teaching and not leave it.

[00:11:45] Rita Burke: Yes, representation matters, isn't it? 

[00:11:48] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Oh, 100%. It's so important 

[00:11:51] Rita Burke: No question about that. 

[00:11:53] Ellington Brown: We use an analogy, silos, and how people are working within [00:12:00] these silos. So we have multiple systems where they're not talking to one another. There's no bridges, and it appears that the organizations that you work with create this huge umbrella which covers a lot.

[00:12:16] Ellington Brown: So what can your organizations do in order to minimize this lack of trust and foster, open communication? 

[00:12:31] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think it starts with just showing up and being there when it matters, all right? Like, um, I can say I'm supportive, but until I show up and I advocate or show solidarity, that's when the trust starts getting built.

[00:12:48] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So recognizing trust is not an overnight process and it takes time. I think that's a good starting point. Um, that can happen through interactions. Um, it could be online, it could be in person, it could be going hosting [00:13:00] an event, going to an event. But that's once again where the intentionality piece comes in.

[00:13:05] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: People want to know, for example, as a researcher or as a executive director of a nonprofit, how will I help them, um, in terms of the community needs or their individual needs? And I think, um, once we're able to have that authentic conversation and through actions show that we're there for the right reasons, because remember, historically, even researchers have harmed communities through colonial knowledge production, um, through, um, unethical, um, experiments done on Black, indigenous communities and other groups.

[00:13:38] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So we gotta take that, um, into consideration of where, why there's a lack of trust, um, or why there's a lack of trust within many racialized communities with the police because of racial profiling and other pieces. And so I think once you're able to build a relationship, um, it's important to leverage it, right?

[00:13:56] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: You wanna talk to folks like elders, [00:14:00] people in the community who come with the cultural capital and the currency to bring people together, right? And I think, and we don't spend enough time strategizing and community work around those pieces. We just say, "Well, it's not working." But when it comes, when the message is amplified by someone who has that respect and pull, um, now you're able to bring the right people together.

[00:14:22] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so a lot of it, um, in all my roles, through my writing, through the community work we do, um, you know, that, that happens to many frontline staff who do amazing work building that trust, supporting people in vulnerable circumstances, is, um, building that trust and then providing Things that are different, right?

[00:14:42] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Like, let's not be afraid to challenge the norm because the system is designed to serve certain identities and communities. So we know, for example, in the social service ecosystem, there is a lack of culturally reflective services. When we think of Black identities, indigenous [00:15:00] identities, refugees, immigrants, yes, services exist, but are they accessible?

[00:15:05] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Are they affordable? Is it offered by someone who understands, um, that person's lived experiences and cultural tendencies and competencies? And so those little things matter, and it's the difference, uh, between someone willing to trust or try something, and on a different side, in terms of the profession and the people who are in it, whether those people stay in that profession or end up leaving, right?

[00:15:29] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Many people leave teaching because they don't feel valued for who they are, or they feel like they need to conform, right? We have this saying of like, "Well, don't get tattoos anywhere visible. You know, cut your hair and be clean shaved." And all of these things, um, pressurize people to conform being a certain way and showing up a certain way.

[00:15:48] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, and if they don't, you don't get access to opportunity, you're not gonna get the job, or you're judged. So this is the battle of creating systemic change, by making things that are normal [00:16:00] abnormal, by questioning it and having those important conversations to then say, "Well, is there a different way of doing it?

[00:16:06] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And, you know, who does it include and who does it exclude? And if it excludes people, how do we disrupt that process?" 

[00:16:13] Rita Burke: And this conversation isn't new. It's- This conversation started way, way, way back. There's no question about that. It is. Now, tell me, tell us, tell our listeners who, who join SpeakUP! International primarily to be educated, to be informed, to be inspired, have you ever experienced a situation where you felt excluded, or situations where you felt excluded?

[00:16:46] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah, I mean, exclusion is a subjective, um, experience, and I think at one point or others, all of us feel excluded. That could be, um, that could be direct or it could also be subtle. I think for me, um, what [00:17:00] always sticks with me are the subtle things. Uh, you know, it, it could be like not getting enough attention or the microaggression comments that are made towards someone.

[00:17:09] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, you know, I've gone to a lot of job interviews and, you know, um, and, you know, I think I would say I feel I was qualified, um, but obviously I didn't. And I think I did well, uh, through the process, but obviously I didn't get the final call up. And I think sometimes I wonder, was it me or was it, um, what they were looking for?

[00:17:30] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And of course, it's complex and there's a lot of factors, but I think when people always knock on the door of opportunity and they don't get it, that's where we have to start thinking about, well, where are the barriers in place, you know? We know there's studies simply just because your name is not, um, Eurocentric, you are disadvantaged, right?

[00:17:51] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, where you live, it can disadvantage you. So for me, um, it's not a direct feeling of exclusion, but it was [00:18:00] a turning point in my life where equity really became an important way of thinking. And I went to three schools in four years of high school in, in Toronto. Uh, I spent my grade nine year at a school, then ten, 11 at another school, in grade 12, another school.

[00:18:15] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And although all of them good schools, it was very interesting that it all came with their very different reputations and what the school valued and the relationships were so different, um, when theoretically you're supposed to get the same quality education. It really made me realize, um, the power of relationships, because a school that didn't have such a good reputation academically, the relationships and the, the care was so strong.

[00:18:41] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Where in another school where the academic reputation was so strong, um, the relationships, uh, were not there, and the onus was on the student so much to kind of, you know, uh, from a neoliberal lens, like pull up your bootstrap and you gotta try, and if you fail, it's, it's your fault. And so it was really [00:19:00] eye-opening to experience that contrast almost like within a year of transitioning from one school to the other.

[00:19:06] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And I think that was a starting point of me becoming an advocate and having an equity analysis hat on most of the times in my life leading up to my writing and pursuing my studies and my community work. 

[00:19:20] Ellington Brown: I found, what you said to be true. I'm from the States. I'm Canadian, but I found schools in the States to be just that way, especially for m- marginalized communities.

[00:19:40] Ellington Brown: Uh, you can go to one school, of course it had a reputation, good or bad, but when you'd go, it was like starting all over again. You had to learn the culture, you had to learn how to fit in. All of these things that you learned at your last school, you now had to go [00:20:00] back through this, uh, situation all over again.

[00:20:03] Ellington Brown: Sometimes it was painful. And I just wonder, are these struggles that marginalized groups go through Is there a way of minima- minimizing them so that we don't have our children to go through it? It's, traumatizing

[00:20:28] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I mean, that, that's a million-dollar question, but I think, um, there's different ways you can enter in, in, in a, in finding a solution. I, I never believe in the, the myth of a single solution for systemic, uh, problems. So, um, you know, things like we need more diverse teachers in teaching if we're talking about schools, right?

[00:20:49] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: We need, um, a curriculum that reflects the histories and realities of minoritized groups, and not just the pain and the suffering, [00:21:00] but also the empowering leaders and the great contributions they made to the country, right? We don't wanna only teach about the traumatic aspects of history when it comes to equity-deserving groups.

[00:21:10] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um- We need to collect data. Um, data is so important around, around identity, right? Because we need to know the baseline, which then allows us to set goals and be intentional. Not to say it's gonna be perfect, but at least we're able to be intentional on how we're navigating this growth. Um, and I think identity formation is so important in the early years around connecting youth with caring adults.

[00:21:36] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, I mean, in a two-parent household or if you can afford, um, you know, a tutor or, um, additional extracurricular programs, it's a little bit easier. But how do we connect someone in a really crappy or shitty situation, pardon my language, to a caring adult? 'Cause that can be the difference between suicide ideation, between [00:22:00] hitting rock bottom and gravitating towards violence.

[00:22:03] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so I really like the language, um, of social work. I've really, um, applied it to education when I, um, talk to folks. Um, and it's really about community safety. It's this idea of risk factors and protective factors. Um, like life becomes a game of probabilities. Um, we have to map out the risk factors so things like being a single-parent household, living in a neighborhood impacted by violence, history of trauma, um, you know, your race and your age, and then saying, "What protective factors can we put around this person to mitigate those risk factors?"

[00:22:39] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Because if we don't and those risk factors continue to be amplified, the result is often gravitating towards violence, poor decision-making, um, possibly incarceration and having a record and being in conflict with the law. So the protective factor starts with connecting someone with a caring adult, and all the other pieces, right?

[00:22:59] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: A [00:23:00] curriculum that looks like them, um, getting them a job. You know, the two main protective factors are stable housing and being able to have a career that pays well. And if we can put those things in place, uh, particularly around folks who are previously incarcerated or coming back into community, we know we drastically increase the odds of them not, um, re-offending or, uh, returning to committing crime and reducing recidivism rates.

[00:23:27] Rita Burke: You said so many important things, and I don't know which one to hone in on. But I will say: How do incarcerated youth fit into your sphere, into your world? 

[00:23:40] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah. So I think from a direct lived experiences, um, growing up, I, I've lost quite a few friends, um, to gun violence in the city, uh, as well as incarceration and some to deportation after having, uh, received a record.

[00:23:52] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so, um, um, I think, um, it always, um, you know, hits home. Um, you know, at YACE, um, you know, the [00:24:00] nonprofit in the Jane and Finch community called Youth Association for Academics, Athletics, and Character Education, uh, we have two specific programs that include supporting folks who are formerly or, or currently incarcerated.

[00:24:14] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Uh, one is called Towards Peace. Um, it's in partnership with the City of Toronto. Um, and, um, another grassroots organization, Think Twice, implements it in the Rexdale community. And, um, it's, uh, basically a wraparound supports, um, around folks, um, who are in vulnerable circumstances and exposed to risk factors, um, including violence, including having a record.

[00:24:39] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so, um, we hire folks with lived experiences to provide that care and the case management. That's very important because going back to our earlier conversation, imagine someone who has no idea of being incarcerated or impacted by violence telling someone how they should live their life, particularly when they're at their low point in their life.

[00:24:58] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: That doesn't often gonna go [00:25:00] well. But when you're able to bring someone who comes with community connections, who comes, um, with the lived experiences, it increases the likelihood of that conversation, uh, being more fruitful and hopefully, uh, leading to setting some goals. So in that program, um, the, you know, the-- we call them VDWs, the folks with the lived experience providing the guidance, Violence Disruption Workers.

[00:25:24] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, they kind of, um, meet with the clients on a weekly basis and set goals around housing, employment, training they need to better their lives, and it becomes a bit of ongoing support, um, through, um, once again, that lens of risk factors and protective factors. We do have another program at YACE, uh, it's federally funded by Public Safety.

[00:25:45] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: It's called New Narrative and folks can check out the website to learn more, you know, www.yaace.com to learn more about the YACE and some of these programs. That program has a bit of more of a [00:26:00] prevention component because we know prevention is always better than intervention. But if we need to intervene timely, culturally reflective, um, um, support is important. So same concept, but that, uh, that, uh, new narrative program has other pillars from family support.

[00:26:17] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So it goes beyond the individual to looking at what are the relationships in the person's ecosystem that can be involved, and we can channel to support them in a positive way. There's employment, there's access to experiential opportunities, and once again, there's a case management in that program. We call them crew members, community resource engagement workers.

[00:26:39] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And once again, we keep coming back to community 'cause it's really around relationships within that community ecosystem. 

[00:26:48] Ellington Brown: You have many organizations that you are affiliated with that really hone in on specifics in the communities in which these [00:27:00] organizations reside . How can we effectively measure the impact of these groups, the holistic support in promoting equality, diversity, and inclusion within these organizations and institutions?

[00:27:19] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I think there's two, two entry points. On a, on a, on a broad level, it's really about the impact of the relationships. Um, that might not always be tracked, but you can see the result in how someone shows up, how engaged they are, how confident they are in who they are. And so that, those are the day-to-day realities that we observe, right, with the naked eye.

[00:27:43] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I really, I really call it experiencing inclusion through the senses of, like, how you feel, the sound. Like, in community, there's sound, there's interaction, right? Um, there's people gathering to talk and eat food. So those are kind of more, um, the day-to-day [00:28:00] observations. But I think we need to really be intentional and continue to advocate for data collection.

[00:28:06] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, data is so, so important because it allows us to see where is the baseline, where are the gaps, and then allows us to go back to the strategic board and say, "Well, what kind of solutions do we need? If here's a gap in the system and it's a barrier for some folks, what do we need to put there? Is it resources?

[00:28:26] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Is it training?" And so I think it's a constant push and pull because sometimes you can get the data. Um, for example, uh, you know, even though the Anti-Racism Act collects a lot of data in Ontario, the onus is on the individual to perhaps request them through freedom of information, which, uh, costs money, which is hard to navigate.

[00:28:48] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So how do we maintain accountability and transparency within our institutions? By making the data open access, where community folks can access it, and it's not just for researchers. [00:29:00] So a lot of gatekeeping happens, um, through different stages, and that is the form of a barrier, right? Like, voices are lost in the translation journey of going from point A to point B.

[00:29:11] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so the question becomes, how do we try to mitigate or remove those barriers? And I think we need data, uh, because the data is so important. And lack of data tells a story, right? When you can't get data or there's not enough of it. Um, and so I think that's what we have to do to be strategic, and it's a way of holding institutions accountable for their systemic apathy and for the systemic discrimination that's, uh, embedded in a lot of their policies and practices that exist today.

[00:29:41] Rita Burke: Now, I went to the faculty of Ed at U of T many, many moons ago, and the word or the term social justice curriculum did not exist. So tell our listeners, what does the [00:30:00] content of a social justice curriculum look and sound like and walks and talks like, please? 

[00:30:08] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Oh, that's a great question. Now, if-- I think that's a very loaded question, but I will share my opinion.

[00:30:13] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And when I say that, I mean, if you ask that from even 20 different activists, they're gonna give you 20 different answers. So take my answer with a grain of salt. I'll come from my own positionality and my own lived experiences. Um, but I think a social justice education is about challenging the barriers that we can identify that lead to inequitable outcomes for different groups, right?

[00:30:41] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So in my classes and in my community work, we spend a lot of time deconstructing terminology like equality versus equity. And most people, hopefully by now, have a good foundation. Like treating everybody the same is not fair. Like whoever says that, like that's an oxymoron. Like if we treat everybody the same, then the [00:31:00] people who have a head start in life through race, socioeconomic status, gender, they're always gonna stay ahead in the race of life, right?

[00:31:07] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So what-- Or as a teacher, are you gonna say you're gonna divide your attention by 30 if you got 30 students in your class? No. You're gonna spend a little bit more time with the kids who are struggling, and the folks who get things quick, you're gonna give them some other tasks like leadership opportunities to still help them grow So I think what I say, and going back to this, we need an equitable lens of figuring out where are the barriers and the inequities, and where does the gatekeeping happen.

[00:31:37] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And a social justice curriculum is being an activist scholar or an activist teacher, an activist parent. Like I'm really, in my work, I've honed in on this work, uh, this word of activism. And it's not this like add-on or part-time thing. It's how do you bring activism to your day-to-day? It's how you show up.

[00:31:59] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, it's how [00:32:00] you talk, how you choose to do your hair. Who do you decide to interact with? Where do you choose to put your energy in, right? Like, I'm not gonna spend three hours arguing with someone who doesn't believe there's any systemic barriers in society. Like, cool. Someone else could have that conversation, and when they get to a bit of a longer in their journey, maybe I'm gonna come in.

[00:32:21] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so we-- it's also picking and choosing where do we put our energy to get the greater, um, return on investment of doing this equity work. And so I think a social justice curriculum calls in people, um, who, um, are at the early stages of their growth journey, of understanding what is equity, what is social injustice, um, particularly people who don't have the lived experiences, um, due to life circumstances or who they are.

[00:32:52] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And, um, and helping and in solidarity as a group saying, "What do we wanna challenge, and how do we wanna do it?" [00:33:00] Um, that can come in many different wa- There's so many systemic barriers. Like, one person cannot take on all of them, so it's always good to start with one that you're passionate about or you're directly impacted, because it gives you a purpose.

[00:33:13] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, and it allows you. Uh, and the last point I wanna make is a lot of times we get into this Olympic of oppressions. Like, you know, my oppression is more important than your oppression. And when we get there, that's a dangerous place. And so it's important to say, "How does my oppression impact your oppression?"

[00:33:33] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And how do we dis-- by dismantling any form of injustice or inequity, it benefits everybody. Because, you know, analogy I use is any system is as good as its weakest link, whether you're directly in that group or not. So when we ha- are able to improve the system as a whole and raise the bar for any one group that's experiencing barriers, it has a positive domino effect on all the other groups.

[00:33:58] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so that's so important 'cause a [00:34:00] lot of times we see clashes between movements within social justice movements. And so, um, that's also a colonial strategy of like, you know, um, divide and conquer, right? Because, um, when folks go back in silos, you're not able to be as powerful in what you wanna challenge or you're able to be shut down 

[00:34:21] Ellington Brown: So what innovative leadership strategies or approaches does your organization employ to address issues of equality, equity in the world of sports?

[00:34:34] Ellington Brown: And what outcomes have been achieved through these leadership efforts? 

[00:34:42] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I mean, within the community work, um, I'll answer kind of wearing my two different hats. Uh, within community work, I think, um, we're really huge, um, at YACE around, uh, making programs accessible, uh, because we know there's many programs that have costs, but making sure, um, they're very accessible, predominantly free [00:35:00] programs.

[00:35:00] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Like, we offer a seven-week summer program where students get access to, uh, Ontario certified teachers through our partnership, uh, with Toronto District School Board and the Toronto Catholic District School Board. They get an hour of numeracy and literacy, as well as sports training, uh, for seven weeks, uh, for a very minimal price, uh, compared to where you go to a camp and it's $300 a week.

[00:35:24] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, the other piece is the culturally reflective piece we're really big on at YACE, uh, is hiring teachers and coaches come from community, um, who are Black, given the demographics, and racialized, given the demographics of the community we serve in the Jane and Finch community. Uh, so really those are two big aspects of what we do, um, around accessibility and culturally reflective.

[00:35:47] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, at the university level, I really try to challenge how we perceive leadership. Um, a good example is, you know, you asked me around the Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Indigenization [00:36:00] Coalition, and the reason the name coalition is attached to it and not a committee, because a committee operates in a very specific way within a higher education setting.

[00:36:11] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: There's, like, terms of service, um, what exactly are you gonna do? Uh, how many meetings? If you miss, you're kicked out. And so, um, I... Uh, there was a bit of resistance around why is this not formulating into a committee and, uh, you know, as a collective, we had to say because it, it, that creates more barriers and it becomes more exclusionary for different people to participate in, because we also want to invite folks from outside of the university, such as teachers and parents and community organizations, to be a part of it.

[00:36:43] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So once again, it always goes back to asking this question of the way we're doing something, who does it include and who does it exclude? And if it excludes people, in what ways is it doing it, and how can we change that so the process [00:37:00] itself doesn't become a barrier? 

[00:37:05] Rita Burke: I like that. That is very, very interesting.

[00:37:10] Rita Burke: I like that frame- work frame of reference. But I want to get to know, and I want our audience to get to know a little bit more about you. So tell us who or what is responsible for who you are today

[00:37:29] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah, thank you for that. I mean I think a lot of people have poured into me, and so I try to illuminate that light back into the world. Uh, I immigrated in 1998 to Canada from Iran. Um, you know, my, my, my parents, um, chose to, uh, move here for accessing different opportunities, and I think that, um, drastically impacted my trajectory.

[00:37:54] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, you know, I... Growing up, um, I did all kinds of jobs, being a telemarketer on the [00:38:00] phone, working at Canada's Wonderland, working at a printing factory, 12-hour shifts, and what I realized is I didn't like routine and I liked interaction. So once I started working at summer camps, I really knew, um, I wanted to go into teaching.

[00:38:14] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: You know, I played competitive basketball. I coached it. Um, and then I transitioned to officiating. Um, basketball was always a community where I met a lot of folks, um, including my mentor, uh, Devon Jones, who's now the fou- who's the founding director of YACE, and I get to work with him, um, uh, weekly and daily around the community work and the systemic change we want to do.

[00:38:36] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And, you know, my parents, you know, I come from a two-parent household. Um, uh, and all my friends, you know, I say there's family by blood and there's family by loyalty, and I think I have many, many, uh, friends, um, who through loyalty and the things we've gone through from our friends, uh, being shot to incarcerated, you know, we, we, we, we heal together, we overcome the [00:39:00] challenges.

[00:39:00] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so I think all of those things impact who I am and how I show up, and it becomes a way of how I do the community advocacy work and the writing that I do through publication. Um, for me, writing is, is my tool for advocacy and activism through the books I do. You know, uh, I try to challenge the status quo.

[00:39:20] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: For example, um, all the books I do, I typically end it with a poem as a way of challenging, uh, and, uh, valuing oral culture and different forms of expression. Um, you know, citational writing can be very colonial, and so, uh, we try to challenge that in many ways. And, um, just allowing me to be my authentic self, I think, uh, that's one thing I'm proud of is even though I challenge things or I say things that are not popular, I could say I, I stay true to what I believe in and I show up as my authentic self and I try to help others on their growth journey get to that point.

[00:39:56] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, and when I say that is a, a good example is as men, you know, we're saying [00:40:00] like if you express your feelings or you cry, you're soft. That's what the, the culture tells us. But when I see somebody actually express how they feel or express their emotions and they do it proudly, I'm, I'm impressed. I say, "Wow, that's a form of strength."

[00:40:15] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: You know, they actually have gotten to the stage where they're comfortable with that and even though it's against the trend and what the culture tells you. And so I think, um, I try to model vulnerability as a form of strength. In a lot of my writing, I try to bring who I am and my experiences into it it because doing equity work, I think, you know, who you are and how you enter the space is so important.

[00:40:39] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: And so I try to do that and s- to set the stage, 'cause if folks also don't agree with me, when they can connect the dots and see how I think that way because of who I am and what I experienced, it's a starting point for a meaningful conversation. So, um, you know, my wife also, um, Sierra, she's amazing. So I think the support networks, and I know we started talking about [00:41:00] healing and going back into community.

[00:41:02] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: I think I try to surround myself with people, uh, who reciprocate, um, the love and the respect I give them, and it becomes a fulfilling experience of allowing me to continue to do this work, and when needed, to go back to them for guidance and, uh, nourishment, um, to strategize and come back and continue with purpose 

[00:41:24] Ellington Brown: Tell us about this podcast that you are involved with, with the, uh, professor of, uh, curriculum studies

[00:41:38] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, which podcast? I've been on a couple, so remind me, um 

[00:41:41] Ellington Brown: Okay, so this is with, uh, Dr. Nicholas Ng-A-Fook? 

[00:41:47] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Oh, yes. Dr. Nicholas Ng-Fook. He's at the University of Ottawa. Um, he runs an amazing podcast, uh, similar like yourselves, where they bring, um, scholars, activists, leaders, people with lived [00:42:00] experiences. And, um, you know, I got to, uh, meet him at a conference, and we knew of each other.

[00:42:06] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, you know, last summer we met at a conference out on the East Coast, and, uh, he invited me to be on his podcast. And really, we had very, uh, meaningful conversations. It's, uh, once again, similar to the space you're creating. It's about curating those honest, authentic, brave conversations to get people thinking differently and about how they can contribute to systemic change and reform

[00:42:35] Rita Burke: This has been, for me, a truly eye-opening and enchanting, should I say, experience just sitting listening to you. You talked earlier about going back to community. When we do these podcasts and we listen to people's stories, for me, that is empowering. That is enriching. That [00:43:00] is going to community, and I thank you so much for that.

[00:43:04] Rita Burke: I would like for you to tell our listeners anything that you didn't have an opportunity to tell them through our questioning. What do you want our listeners to know?

[00:43:18] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Yeah. Thank you for holding this space. I mean, I think, um, you know, this year I did a book called The Power of Oral Culture and Education, uh, with Dr. Joe Q. Wayne, who's the chair of Social Justice Education. And I think podcasts are, are, are the new form of oral culture, um, that, uh, that are-- and this generation is connecting with, and it's making knowledge accessible to community and with community.

[00:43:40] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, so I think it's a beautiful thing. You know, I try to, um, get involved with as many podcasts as I can because I think the message, um, uh, is provided in a digestible way for community folks to engage in some of these conversations. Um, I mean, for me, I think if folks wanna learn more about my work, I typically put it on my website.

[00:43:59] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: [00:44:00] It's called education.org, spelled E-D-I-cation.org, where a lot of my writing and things are open access. Um, but in terms of just, um, sharing, um, advice or guidance with, with listeners, um, you know, I always say, um, equity work, I've really honed in on two things. There's two main things we have to work on. One is how do we help people arrive in spaces that historically have been excluded?

[00:44:27] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Um, so that's h- that's like recruitment, um, you know, collecting identity-based data. But I think the other piece we don't talk about enough is when we help. When we help those people enter that space, how are we being intentional while helping them finish and succeed and do well? Because if we don't invest in that second part, it's what we see.

[00:44:50] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: People leave. You know, a great example is after George Floyd, many, uh, Black folks were hired for companies to be EDI leads. You know, [00:45:00] two years later, more than half have left because the culture was not conducive to who they are and the work they had to do. Um, it's the same thing in teacher education. We can, we can recruit Black, Indigenous, um, students from other equity-deserving groups to get into a program, but if the program is not, uh, cognizant and intentional in how to support them, of how to ensure their way of being and their lived experiences, it's integrated in a empowering and authentic way, folks will leave.

[00:45:31] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So let's focus on both strategies. Different people and community are gonna be invested on doing, uh, work in the different niche spaces, but we need the two to eventually align to create that continuity that's helping people arrive, but also walking them to do well and succeed. And when we can do that, that's when the systemic change will naturally happen because by disrupting the processes, it's gonna lead to the outcome that we want.

[00:45:56] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: So let's be process-oriented to get to the outcome we want, [00:46:00] which is more equitable outcomes, particularly for folks experiencing those barriers and being in the equity-deserving groups.

[00:46:10] Ellington Brown: I could talk to you for hours. 

[00:46:14] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: That's, that's a- 

[00:46:15] Ellington Brown: Because I found our conversation to be riveting.

[00:46:20] Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad: Thank you!

[00:46:20] Ellington Brown: And there's so much more to, to learn, but you have definitely whet our appetites, and hopefully the appetites of our listeners, to take this information and process it and use it in a positive way.

[00:46:41] Ellington Brown: We talked about so many things. We talked about in- marginalized people, women, which I thought was extremely important because sometimes women get left out of , these programs. And so to make sure that they're kept in the system, quote-unquote, [00:47:00] this was a good thing. Asking for leaders of the community to join in and help is like adding pepper to a great meal.

[00:47:13] Ellington Brown: And I, you just really, really had some very inno- innovating ideas of ways of, , helping individuals move, forward. Does that mean in education? Does it mean in, in jobs? So many areas. So I wanna thank you for today and, this conversation with SpeakUP International, and I hope that we have an opportunity to talk to you again, Ardvin.

[00:47:43] Ellington Brown: Thank 

[00:47:44] Ellington Brown: you so much for holding the space and having me as a guest. Greatly appreciate it. 

[00:47:49] Rita Burke: When you want to join us again, just give us a holler. Sounds good. And we certainly will have you back. 

[00:47:56] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to SpeakUP! [00:48:00] International! If you wish to contact our guest, Dr. Ardavan Eizadirad, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Dr. Ardavan at linkedin.com.

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