[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! Today, we have the Reverend Gallard, and she is reading an excerpt from her first children's book, Music From the Sky. Good Reverend, the virtual floor is yours! 

[00:00:33] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Early morning. Shh. No one is up but Grandpa and me. I sneak down the stairs.

Creak, creak, creak. "Come on, girl. Put on your boots." "Where are we going, Gramps?" "Gonna make a flute," he says. "You can't make a flute! I've been to a concert. I've seen the long, shiny, silver flute sounding so pretty just like music from the sky. You can't make a flute, can you, Gramps?" Grandpa makes a funny face at me.

He says I'm a real crazy girl. "Music from the sky. When did you ever hear any music from the sky?" he asks. "I heard the music one day when I was looking up at the clouds blowing by, big, fluffy, puffy clouds that looked like bears and boats, and then I heard it, music from the sky. Gramps, if you close your eyes real tight and listen, I bet you could hear it, too."

Gramps smiles at me. He says I'm a wonder. Then, just like that, he's ready to go. "Are you coming?" he asks. "Yes, I'm coming to make a flute!" 

[00:02:01] Ms. Rita Burke: More, more, more. The voice you have heard is none other than Dr. Denise Gillard, who is a multifaceted leader, pastor, transformational coach, and author. Dr. Denise, Dr, Dr.

Denise serves as the senior leader of World Walk Global Ministries. She is also the president and lead coach of My Divine Appointment. Through her coaching, Dr. Gillard helps women who have spent years pouring into others learn how to pour back into themselves. As we say on SpeakUP! International, we want our guests to tell their own stories.

There's so much more I can tell you about Dr. Gillard, but we want her to tell her story. So welcome, Dr. Denise Gillard, to SpeakUP! International. 

[00:03:02] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. What a joy to be with you. My pleasure to be here this morning. 

[00:03:08] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Before we, uh, start our, our conversation, I have to say, did you notice how, um, Rita was l- locked in place?

She did not mo- she did not move while you were reading. Uh, I, I, I had to say that because she, she d- loves to be read to, so you just made her day, um, reading from that beautiful book of yours- She did ... Music from the Sky. All right. So you're a pastor- Yeah ... transformational coach, author, entrepreneur. How has these- identities blend together to put you on the journey you are on today?

[00:03:53] Speaker 2: Wow, what a profound question. I appreciate the question. Um, first of all, I would say it's not really that I have multiple identities. I think that I've just been on a lifelong journey of, um, releasing everything that God's put inside of me, and I want to really, uh, give God the glory and thank God for the family that I had in both my, you know, natural family and my extended family.

My parents, you know, my dad was born in Jamaica. Um, he's passed away now, but he, uh, came to Canada when he was 13. He was a mechanic. He worked for, very faithfully for years in the mechanic shop, and then opened up his own business. My mom, on my mom's side of the family, I'm 10th, 11th generation Canadian.

Um, Nova Scotian. Came to Toronto when she was probably 17, 18. Met my dad. She was a stay-at-home mom who was busier than anything. She, uh, was a Christian educator So between those, the two of them, just them alone, as children, there's four of us, we were exposed to so many wonderful, powerful experiences that to this day none of us can stay in a box.

We're always growing and exploring

[00:05:36] Ms. Rita Burke: Dr. Gillard, one of the statements that you made in your response to Elton's question is the fact that you have been a lifelong... It's a lifelong journey of learning everything God has put inside of you. 

[00:05:51] Speaker 2: Yes. 

[00:05:52] Ms. Rita Burke: I, I, I like that. And I, I too consider myself a, I don't say a lifelong learner, I say a forever, a forever learner.

[00:06:02] Speaker 2: Yes. 

[00:06:02] Ms. Rita Burke: I f- do believe that every day I learn something about me and something about the world around me. So thanks for, for, for, uh, uh, confirming that it's okay to always want to learn. 

[00:06:14] Speaker 2: Yes. 

[00:06:15] Ms. Rita Burke: I, I wanna talk about you and being a pastor. 

[00:06:19] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:20] Ms. Rita Burke: What has, what has led you into ministry? 

[00:06:25] Speaker 2: Oh. Well, I, I will tell you that when I was a little girl there were people who saw it in me, whether or not it was supposed to happen or not, like allowed or not, because I grew up in a, um, a Fellowship Baptist Church, and that ch- in that denomination, as a woman you weren't even allowed to be a deacon, never mind a pastor.

But I always had these, um, experiences where I just heard the voice of God and did what I was called to do, always ended up in some kind of leadership capacity. And you, you need to know that I was born in Oakville, Ontario. At that time there was hardly any Black people there. Um, the few that were there were rel- if they weren't related to me, they were related to each other and therefore are, you know, this extended family.

And but I grew up in a, a church that was all white except for us, and then every so often there might be an Asian or, you know, other people And, and so in this environment though, where you, I wasn't supposed to hear the call of God in my life, I just functioned out of what God put in me, and then just kept growing and growing.

And I remember, um, there was a lady who had had a faith experience but was struggling, and I was at home and I jumped up and said, "Oh," you know, we always called, um, people who are older than us auntie or uncle if they were close. So I said, "Auntie So-and-so needs me," and I went running. And my mom's like, "Where's this kid going?"

And when I got to the auntie's house, she was struggling because she had been previously addicted to cigarette smoking, and I found her in a state, and I, I said, "Oh, you need help." And my mom came in behind me , said, "What is this crazy kid?" And so we ministered to her. We would use those words now. I didn't know those words then.

And she says she always knew I was going to be a pastor. But it was hearing the call of God in my life at First Baptist Church, downtown Toronto, the Reverend Rosetta O'Neil was preaching. And she preached this sermon on recruit, reclaim, retain, release. These Rs. At that time, I wasn't even really living dedicated to the Lord.

Next thing I knew, I was up at the front and just decided I, I'm gonna obey God, 'cause I was doing all kinds of other things. I was a restaurant manager. I was... I would get to the highest, second-highest position in these jobs. My parents would be like, "Yes, our girl." And then I'd quit, and they'd be, "What's wrong with that girl?"

Until I heard the call. I res- you know, I, I heard God say, "Okay, this is what you want me to do." Yeah. And I stopped quitting after that. I was in the right place. 

[00:09:29] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: It feels good to be in the right place, yes? 

[00:09:32] Speaker 2: It's necessary. I don't know how people live without doing what they're meant to do. Um, and you hear people say, "I'm bored."

I'm like, "What is that?" Sometimes is, is being bored a holiday or- I don't get it. So you're never bored when you're living a life of purpose. 

[00:09:57] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:58] Speaker 2: You're never bored. 

[00:09:59] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: So g- global, uh, I'm sorry. 

[00:10:04] Speaker 2: Word Walk. 

[00:10:04] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Word Walk Global Ministries. Yeah. Okay, so you guys have, like, okay, church gatherings, all of, all of that.

Yeah. But then you also kinda do this hybrid thing, right? 

[00:10:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. Word Walk 

[00:10:20] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: is kind of a baby. Talk, talk, talk to us about the, about the, your organization and how the hybrid part fits in. 

[00:10:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. Word Walk is, uh, um, a, a... It's really an infant ministry. I mean, for years I was a Baptist pastor, like, tradition, uh, with the convention, and I came up through the ranks, right?

You start off as youth pastor, youth worker, Christian education, da, da, da, da, da, to senior pastor. And I've served in other churches, and I've served as executive and senior pastor. You know, there's almost, almost every job I've done it. And Word Walk came about because there is a group of people who just wanted to encounter God differently, more personally, like, to take time and not...

Um, I love preaching, but they wanted more of, um, exchange, like sitting over the Word and, you know, so when you're sharing it you could ask questions or you can make comments. And, um, a traditional church structure didn't lend itself to that, but rather more like a cell group where you could have small groups of people.

And then we come together once a month in a larger group in person to worship and celebrate together in what God has done. And for some reason I almost think of it as God's experiment in my obedience, because it's not comfortable for me, to tell you the truth. The people I love, the growth in the people, ugh.

Less church politricks or politics, love all of that, but I, sometimes I just miss the pews and the deacons and the usher board and the... I miss kind of that. So it's not, um, always comfortable for me. And, well, I've always... I've learnt obedience is better than sacrifice, the word says. I've learnt to, to be uncomfortable in my growth moments, and I've had the privilege of seeing, um, a, a, a group of people who are serious about their faith journey, not just coming and sitting in church on a Sunday or a Saturday and leaving, so.

That's kind of what that's about. It's this hybrid, Holy Spirit-filled initiative that I don't know what God's gonna do with it next. Be four years old on June 7th, right? So I'm not sure where we're going. 

[00:13:03] Ms. Rita Burke: It, it, it sure sounds like a new way of doing church, and I could see, I could see how it could be appealing and how it could help people meet their spiritual needs in a cloister, so to speak.

Yes. Yes. You've said that you, you, you love preaching. 

[00:13:25] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: I do. 

[00:13:26] Ms. Rita Burke: I know you do. I've heard you many times. And I'm not even going to step out there and say you're good and sure you know that you're good. 

[00:13:34] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Thank you! 

[00:13:34] Ms. Rita Burke: On Mother's Day at our church, you touched me in such a special way, 'cause you didn't do the usual scripture.

It was truly amazing, and you know what I'm talking about. And when you were done, I said, "That's too short." I needed more. More, more, more. Anyway, Dr. Gillard- 

[00:13:58] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yeah ... 

[00:13:58] Ms. Rita Burke: In your resume, you talk about a whole purpose-filled life. 

[00:14:04] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes. 

[00:14:05] Ms. Rita Burke: Tell us what that looks like? 

[00:14:08] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Oh, that question is so, so powerful, and I was thinking about it.

What is a whole life? A whole life is when someone, um, who- Is determined to be what God has called them to be. So they're self-observant. A whole life is a self-observant life. It's a life where there's a self-awareness, right? Humility is, is a part of that, but not hiding your light, right? Just having that in perspective.

It's, uh, an idea of owning your greatness, owning what God has called you to do. It's a life where you create and change through challenges, and you embrace opportunities. It's a life where you decide to feel and think and reflect and engage on purpose. You're not just being led around. You're, you're, you're engaging.

It's, uh, it's a life where you align the gifts that you were given with your calling. Like, you're functioning out of a sense of alignment. Um, I know for instance, I'm called to build healthy, accountable, impactful leaders. Healthy, accountable, and impactful. And I do believe that whatever sphere of leadership you're in, you could be a stay-at-home mom, you could be a business owner, you could be a pastor, you could be an entrepreneur.

The, you know, you're a leader wherever you are, and you need to be healthy spiritually, physically, mentally, you know, holistically. You need to be impactful, right? You need to make a difference. And we need accountability, which is a word that far too many people are allergic to accountability. And that's why we see some of the great leadership failures.

I'm not gonna be anybody's judge, but without accountability, people are just left to their own devices, right? So, um, I, it's a place where inner peace is Essential. Like you're at peace with yourself, you're at peace with God, peace with people. Even if you're in a war-torn country, there's a sense of that.

And, um, an eye on what is the next mission? What's the next ta- what's the next thing? Like, what a pleasure for me to read that children's book. I wrote that book a long time ago, and then I'm like, "Okay, I did that. What's next?" Right? Like, just, just always growing. And I think, um... I could say so many things, but the last thing I will say is that ability to know what your core values are, and to live out of your core values.

And for me, as a woman of faith and a woman of God, all of these things that I, I see as wholeness are connected to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, plain and simple. No apologies. I'm unapologetically a woman of faith, un- unapologetically That's what I think it looks like, a little bit 

[00:17:48] Ellington Brown: Great. It certainly feels good! I can definitely say that. Talk to us about My Divine Appo- Appointment and the Whole Woman Reset. 

[00:18:02] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Thank you. Well, My Divine Appointment is my coaching and consulting firm. So first of all, consulting, 'cause I can talk about it fast. Consulting, I work with small nonprofit organizations.

I love small. I, I work with, um, business owners, again, be- who are starting out, and, um, I pour into them and work with them on different areas so that the small organization which has to do so much work with so little resources can gain strength and momentum. For business owners, it's my joy to get them to their first $100,000.

I did a lot of work in the early days with the Canadian Black Chamber of Commerce. I loved that, and I was the head person, right? Like, so much of, for entrepreneurs, what's in their brain gets in their way of progress. So, you know, give me those people, and I can help them get out of their own way and navigate imposter syndrome and all kinds of things for that.

But during, um, the last couple of years, I had to put my coaching and consulting on hold because my family was going through some issues. In particular, my beloved husband, um, was diagnosed with MDS blood cancer, and so I had to stop and focus on my family. Not just that, although that was major. There was some other family.

Family comes first. So I paused everything, and now that there is some stability, my husband is on his healing journey, and, um, the things that were challenging us as a family have been sorted. Um, and I've been sorted, because I, in the midst of that, I almost lost myself. I, one day I woke up and I was in the ICU, and I was lying in the bed.

I, you know... It's, it's a long story, but to make it short, I thought I was just fighting a cold or something like that, so I ignored what my body was saying, I ignored what my mind was saying, I ignored what my spirit was saying, and I pushed through as a good Christian leader, woman, pastor, all of those things.

And, you know, one of my nieces was getting married in BC, and my mom wanted to go, so I got on a plane with my 86-year-old mom, went out west to the wedding, showed up, and I didn't feel well. But the way my body was presenting, I didn't feel like it was contagious, but I just was run down and I couldn't breathe.

When I got back home, I said, "Okay, let me take my ginger and lemon. You know how we do, and the honey, and if in three days I don't feel well, I'll go to the doctor." Well, the night before, I decide to call the doctor. I thought I was having a heart attack. Phoned the doctor, went in, she goes, "Go to emerge immediately."

Found out that I had water around my heart, water around my lungs. If I had have waited one more day, I might not be here. But how many of us know God is good? When I woke up, I had tubes coming out of everywhere, heart monitors. I was tied down into the bed. So you know when you can't move, what happens is everybody else is taking care of your body.

It was the most humiliating, hard... Ugh. And as I was lying there, I said, "Oh my goodness, I've become the kind of woman who thinks that God wants her to act like this. I've become the kind of woman who has lost myself in taking care of everybody else. I've become the kind of woman..." It was like wake up call epiphany.

So I began to actually practice some of the things I preach, 'cause how many of us know you can write all you want, but you gotta do it, too. So I was like, "Wait a minute, I actually have taught people to do better than this. I need to do better." And then I also developed some other practices. And then, you know, God has a sense of humor.

Once things started to settle and I opened up my mind, I went, "Wait a minute, there is a whole bunch of women like me, good Christian women, who are just living and moving and having no being. And somehow the church is kind of teaching us this lie, and we believe lies. And no, no more of that." And I just heard God, you know?

So I created this new program in my new coaching launch. It's not that I only do women, it's not that I don't do businesses anymore, but in this program of relaunch I am focusing on Christian women 40 and up who have over-given, who, uh, feel like they've lost themselves, who have lost their calling or they're overburdened or secretly abused.

There's so much going on, and this is a time of reset that they need. And I am the person to, to coach and lead in that because been there, done that, not going back. So that's what The Woman's Reset is all about. The whole woman. We need to be whole. He didn't ask the... He said, "Present yourself a living sacrifice," not a dead one!

So that's where I am! 

[00:23:35] Ms. Rita Burke: No, not a dead one! And it sounds to me that when you went to that hospital, you were at your most vulnerable, and you were dependent. You weren't giving this time, you were dependent, you were getting. People were pouring into you, or you would not be here with us today if they weren't pouring into you.

Yeah. You, you, you are a leadership coach, Dr. Denise. 

[00:24:00] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:01] Ms. Rita Burke: How do you want behaviors to change as a result of your coaching? Because you obviously have a goal, an end goal. Yeah. How do you want to see behaviors change as a result of your coaching? 

[00:24:12] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Well, for The Woman's Reset, I say it so simply. To stop living from depletion and live from a place of overflow.

You know, Psalm 23 is so beautiful. People say it. But you know the part that says, "My cup runneth over"? That's how our lives are supposed to be. God gives us so much, and it pours into us that there's overflow, and that's where we give from. We give from the overflow. We do not give from depletion. And it's interesting because I ha- I, I didn't realize it, but I have upset some Christians with this message.

You know, I've gotten some responses where people are saying, "Oh, no. You know, we sacrifice everything that we are, and then God moves." Well, of course God moves, because He don't need us to move. But He does talk about abundant life, and it isn't money. That is a lie from the pit of Hell. If it's only money, then we are to be pitied.

It's more than that. So He gives us extra. And, and, and oh my goodness. The Holy Spirit, for instance, is called the Comforter, right? The Great Comforter. Most people know that. But then it talks about we comfort others with the comfort that He's given us. Overflow. There's so much overflow in scriptures.

Doesn't, doesn't mean we won't suffer. It doesn't mean we won't face hard times. Well, my husband right now, one of my best heroes because he's going through something. He's, he's been through pain and so many things, and what is he doing? Because he can't go out in public. He has no immunity. The guys are calling him.

And my husband's a chaplain, and he's mentoring over the phone. He's talking to people over Zoom. He's helping people. I thought, you know, he... Y- people crawl up in a ball and they're only about themselves when they're going through these cancer journeys. No, no, no, no. He's giving from overflow. He's not depleting himself.

So that's one thing. And I think going back to leaders, one of the best... Well, let me- It is so important to have a place of accountability. Um, there, over these years we've seen the exposure of leaders who are saying one thing and doing another. Um, why? Lack of accountability. I'm not talking about denominations.

I'm not... But someone who sees you for who you are, calls you on your stuff, to be polite, and holds you accountable. Pro- builds you up, breaks down what needs to be done. Asks the difficult questions and refuses to let you hide. Hide. And, um, loves you unconditionally, doesn't talk your business, but won't let you just go amuck.

I mean, that's... If you look in scripture, look at Jesus' relationship with his disciples. On one hand, Peter, y- you know, the keys. The next hand, "Get behind me, Satan," to the same guy. So we need this kind of exchange, and I believe that in the old days this was a part of our community, this kind of accountability, or at least I like to believe that.

I mean, I don't wanna glorify things, but I like to believe that there was the possibility of that. I don't know, but I do know w- that's what's needed now. Healthy, you know, accountable, and impactful leaders. So that's my... Do I make sense? 

[00:27:59] Ellington Brown: Yeah, you make sense! It's, clear to me. And if you, listen to the, listen to the word of God, really listen- Listen it is clear. 

[00:28:08] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes. 

[00:28:09] Ellington Brown: So i, I wanna go back to this whole thing of we working ourselves t- to the point where we are depleted. Yes. You know, that was, in some ways, growing up, that was coveted. 

[00:28:25] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes! 

[00:28:25] Ellington Brown: You know, where the m- mom, you saw mom, she was tired. She felt like, she couldn't go any further.

Uh, but, we don't have a washing machine, so that means mom has to go put the clothes in the tub, get that scrub board out, and start on, on that board to make sure we have clean clothes, feed us, , hundreds of things that are going on, on in the day. And at the time there were periods in our life where we did not have a dad, so my mom had to kinda, like, do everything.

[00:28:56] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yeah. 

[00:28:56] Ellington Brown: Including being a nurse. 

[00:28:58] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes. 

[00:28:59] Ellington Brown: Uh, to get, make money so that we weren't s- you know, sitting out in the streets. 

[00:29:05] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes. 

[00:29:06] Ellington Brown: What is the hidden spiritual and emotional cost when a woman- her cup no longer runneth over 

[00:29:17] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yeah. Depletion.! 

[00:29:18] Ellington Brown: Yes. 

[00:29:18] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Well, it's actually un- I, I consider it to be ungodly and unholy. Um, there's no space, um, for nurture. There's no space to grow. And here's the thing God has called us to so much more, and yet church should... You know, and I, I love the church. I'm a pastor, so don't, you know. Church has taught women differently. You know? Serve t- and it's, if you drop down dead, we're gonna show up at your funeral.

Men will even do a GoFundMe for you. We're gonna give you a good spread. But, but who saw that woman? Who was there for her? Who, who stepped in at times? Now, I always remember, um, listening to stories that my grandmother told of when, um, people in the community broke down, like when another woman broke down or got sick, how the women, the neighbors, would come and take care of the children, take care of her, nurse her, da, da, da, da, da, give...

You know, they shared money. They shared... They just took care of each other, and they saw each other. Like, who sees them, you know? They took people's babies. You know, I mean, you know, okay, I'll raise until you're... But our society now doesn't have that. So imagine women are working... Not, not to say your mom didn't, because that description is so fitting.

They're working, they're doing things at home, they're... And they have no emotional even reserve for their children. And so sometimes, especially when mom is the only mom, some of the things that are said to children and done to children that kill children's spirit are simply 'cause mom is so tired, exhausted, and spent that she doesn't even have the emotional reserves to nurture.

And so we get this hardness. We get this coldness. We get this stu- You're not even allowed to have a softness anymore when you're, when you're living from a state of depletion. And all the time, one of the things that often happens because it's conditioning, we're conditioned, is this voice going on in your head, "You're not good enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not smart enough, you're not..."

Again, depletion, depletion, depletion. How can you think you're gonna pour into anybody else if you yourself are depleted? And so then we pay the cost through the generations. We pay the cost through the generations. And, um, yeah, I, I'm, I'm so over having... I, I, I stopped trying to prove my ministry worth to men when I was a, you know, in my late 20s.

I'm like, "I'm not arguing anybody theology. I'm not... I, I don't have time for that." You know? I, I'm more hear in the back of my mind an old hymn, << Rescue the perishing, care for the dying or hurting >> I don't even know if I have the words right, but I... Rescue the perishing. Too many of us are perishing. Again, I think of live and move...

You know he says we live and move and have our being? No, live, move, have no being. It ought not to be so. So I'm on a mission, and I am unapologetically on that mission to find women, because you know, um, I, I had the beautiful opportunity, it was just yesterday, talking to a colleague about pastors' wives. A- and she was talking about some of the things that they go through.

Not every pastor's wife, because I know, you know, I know so many pastors and their wives who are just amazing, but then there's a whole bunch who, you know, guy's preaching in the pulpit, but when he gets home, beats the heck out of her, um, abuses her, tells her this, and yet she ought to... And, and then I, because I'm a pastor and I don't have a pastor's wife, I have a pastor's husband, so just flipping that because it's not just the boys.

Um, because s- as a, a pastor in ministry who's a female, you're fighting. You're doing this, you're doing that. People are so disrespectful in the way that they wouldn't even think of being disrespectful to a man, so when you get home so depleted, you don't even have a proper relationship with your husband.

That is not in God's economy. So I am unapologetic about wanting to be a part of the solution in Jesus Christ that He's given me to do. So reset. Time to reset. 

[00:34:37] Ms. Rita Burke: And if it is grounded in Jesus Christ, your trajectory's gonna go in his direction, and that's what you certainly want. That's what you want.

Living from a place of depletion, you are so correct about that, lots of women are, lots of believers are, because they, they think somehow, somewhere they've been taught that that's where you live from. They see that as humility. They see that as being, as being humble, which is just- 

[00:35:06] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Well, one of my mentors said there's a fine line between humility and stupidity.

[00:35:11] Ms. Rita Burke: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:35:11] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: That's what she said to me, and just went boom! That was all in my development, and I got that message so clearly. 

[00:35:19] Ms. Rita Burke: But Dr. Denise, we have never had someone sing on SpeakUP! International, so you are the first. We have them read, we have them speak. We've never had them sing Rescue the Perishing. So this is gonna go down in our history-

we've had a singing, a singing pastor on our show. So tell us, who is responsible for the woman that Denise Gillard is today? Who's responsible or what for the woman you are today? 

[00:35:49] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Oh, my goodness. Well, we give God the glory, and then I thank God for my parents. You know, um, my dad was, um- He was, I call him the empowering sexist.

You can do anything you wanna, uh, to do except for what I say you shouldn't do. So I remember when I was real little, I wanted to be a social worker, and he said, "No. Every Black woman with half a brain is a social worker. Pick something else." So that time I picked journalism 'cause I love writing, and he, "Okay."

You know? That was my dad. And of course he said that with a Jamaican accent, so it was even more fun. But, um, he supported every single thing I did. I, I... and I did some crazy things. I was not the easiest kid to raise. So for instance, I decided I was gonna run a beauty pageant when, you know, for a couple years because Black girls needed a beauty pageant in Oakville.

Oh my goodness, I'm telling you, my dad gave money. He g- did, he manned the spotlight. He did everything. He's so proud. Then one year I decided, um, for a couple years I'm gonna do a basketball tournament, because one of my brothers was really good at basketball, and I said, "No, you're only good 'cause we're here in Oakville.

You don't have any real competition." So I organized a basketball tournament, and teams from New York and across Canada and everything came. And then actually basketball scouts came to my tournament. I called it B. Ball Classic, and my dad, he's front and center. We had a whole group of guys from New York who we didn't even know, stayed in our house.

My da- "Bring them on in," and my father had so much fun with them. And my bro- it was so good. Um, that was my dad. So I had, you know, this... He, he had his ways, but he was very supportive. I wanted to play baseball. I was very good at baseball, and I was invited to go on a rep team, so my dad took me, and he saw the girls spitting sunflower seeds.

"Nope. You're not going on that team." So he could kinda quash things, but he could kinda open up things. I ended up being the captain of a soccer team for a little while. "Okay." So he watched the girls. "All right, you can do that." Um, he, he was a leader and a friend and a authoritative and a safe dad. He cherished, like he, he was safe.

I didn't understand, um, some of the things that I knew some of the young women went through. I did not. I had a safe dad, and I thankful for him. My mom- So much of my mom. She's, she's, she is... She's gonna be 87 in June. She is the best. Creative. Truly our spirituality was transmitted mostly through my mom, you know?

Dad was the leader, but Mom was the worshiper. She's the Christian education queen. You could give my mom a straw and 100 kids, and she could turn that into a program for Jesus. And we were voluntold to do everything. I learn, I learned how to speak, I learned how to talk, I learned how to... You name it. "Okay," she would say to me, my sister, and my cousins, "You guys are the entertainment, so g- get a dance together.

Okay, you guys write a play. We need a play. It's about this and that." Um, just amazing. And imagine my parents raised us in an Oakville that was predominantly White, and we faced isms and schisms, and this is the kind of mom you'd go home to, "Ma, they called me chocolate face," bawling. She goes, "Girl, that's the world's favorite flavor."

Right? And, and so many p- of my friends were saved through her, converted. You can't bring anybody home. She's gonna talk about the Lord, and by the time they get to know her, they be- they could become a Christian, and they still would visit her after you and h- them are not friends anymore. She, she... Then I would say that my Grandma Jones from Nova Scotia, because I loved, and still do.

I still do things in Nova Scotia. I loved Nova Scotia. I loved it. I loved my grandmother. She, she was a formidable woman, and much of my identity was shaped through her. Then I have these- Awesome aunties and uncles. I have an aunt who when I was little took me to junior high. Then when she went to high school, she took me to high school with her.

Then when she was in university, she took me to university with her, and I answered questions. And she, yep, let me she let me. And I fell in love with education through her, but I... It's, it's not just her, but several of my aunties. I have these aunties. And my uncle were, you know, civil rights trailblazers. Uh, Rocky Jones was my uncle.

So much character. But all of my uncles, there's, there was three of them. One is almost, you know, we're very close in age. He's like my friend uncle. Then there's the, the, the bigger gentle giant who was ca- I lived with him during college. Who can, who can... Very few women can say they went to live with an uncle.

Not a uncle and an aunt, not a uncle and kids, my uncle. I went to live with my uncle. Safe environment. Just I am so grateful. I didn't know what I ha- Well, what I had, I expected. I didn't know that there could be different. Safe, fun, a little bit too much fun. Sometimes I say, "Uncle, you better beha- I'll be telling Dad that you wanted me..."

One time my u- one of my uncles said, "Oh, you're nice and strong. You know, we can make money. You can be a mud wrestler." 'Cause it was then. I said, "You want my dad to kill me and you?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, yeah. Hubert won't like that." "All right. Well, we'll do something else." You know? But safe, fun, fun-loving. And then my, um, you know, kind of civil rights community activist uncle who I saw him speak at things, I saw him come...

He used to... You know, I'm a child of this, born in the '60s, and he, was the '70s. He looked like Super Fly, you know? Came to Oakville with the big hat and the leather jack. All the neighbors ran when they saw Super Fly come to our house. Really, my Nova Scotian family gave me that identity. Then my Jamaican family who lived close and in Oakville gave me a love of the Caribbean, of culture, of good food and spice and standing up for yourself.

Not that the Scotia, every, both of my family. Like, I come from a long line of people who stood up. Yeah? Stood up for themselves. So my family. And then, you know, I've, I've had the privilege of early mentors. I like to say, um, he's your pastor, Miss Rita, you know. I call him Bishop, you know, Reverend Dr. Reid.

But I just, you know, call him Bishop. I just do. And he giggles. He's such a humble man, and his wife Heather. He was my first, um, professional experience. Before him, I had Pastor Mead, who, um, that's where I, I, I, I was housed and where, um, I got to go to Bible college through. And he, he's a nurturing guy. But it was Reverend Bishop, I call him, Patrick Reid, who I worked with professionally for the first time, him and Heather.

I didn't know that you could work with someone and they would be abusive, or they would try to dim your light. He set the agenda. And man, he set the bar high. So when later on I did go to work with other pastors and, um, they were jealous or cruel or whatever, he had already set the bar high, so I knew, no, no, no, no, that- that's not gonna fly.

So I would give credit to them and then, um, later on, mentors, um, many, and sister girlfriend pastors. So I am, um, I have a lot of gratitude for a lot of people, and my children and my husband who allowed me always to be me and partner with me to do whatever God has called me. I'm blessed, truly blessed

[00:44:44] Ellington Brown: Rita, do you have a question? No, you're muted 

[00:44:51] Ms. Rita Burke: I know that I, I, I have a question. I've got lots of questions, but I know I'm only allowed one more, so I will ask this question. Dr. Reverend Denise Gillard- Yes ... if you were not a pastor, what would you be doing with your life? Not social work. 

[00:45:10] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: No, I'm not allowed. Wow. If I weren't a pastor.

Y- wow. I think I would... I don't know what that means. I have to think about that. If I weren't-

So in this question, I'm allowed to keep coaching and do that? Yeah. I, I, I I think I would still continue to be a coach and consultant, and maybe... I don't, I can't separate myself from being a pastor. I don't think that can happen. But motivational speaker, I, I, I... And I would write more. Nah. Miss Rita, to tell you the truth, I don't think there's anything that I do that I wouldn't be doing.

I don't, I don't think... I'd still speak. I'd, I'd write more. No, I'm still writing now. That doesn't stop me. I love coaching and consulting. I'm a mentor. So I don't, I don't have an answer. 

[00:46:26] Ms. Rita Burke: You're a satisfied woman. You're content. 

[00:46:28] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: I am, and I'm always open to the next. Like, if something, if the lo- if something comes along that I should do next that's different, I'll do it, but I don't think I'd change anything about, um, who I am.

I think it, I think my identity and what I do is fully enmeshed in a healthy way, that I live out of my identity, not out of titles. So I'd still be doing something

[00:47:05] Ellington Brown: So you st- so you still will be doing something, something. Is that 

[00:47:09] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: what you're saying? Absolutely. Until the Lord calls me home, I, you know, if, if I, if I'm tied up totally, I can intercede. I love praying for people. Mm-hmm. So you can't stop that. And you don't have to be a pastor to do that. So, um, yeah, it might be more, like, if I'm not leading the, this local ministry in the way I am now, which, you know, that could very well happen.

[00:47:36] Ellington Brown: Yes. 

[00:47:37] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: I will, if, uh, if m- if, as my husband's health comes to a different level, I'll hit the road, and that's always been what we both dream of. So if the Go- if God gives the open door, I'm, I'm on the road. I love, I love being on the road. So I'll travel the world anywhere and help any ministry and speak and speak into people's lives.

That's, I think that, I think that's where what's gonna happen next anyways. 

[00:48:13] Ellington Brown: Here we have the, uh, the good, uh, Reverend Dr. Gillard . And we thank you so much for, uh, joining us today. This was really a very, uh, lighthearted, informational, inspirational conversation that we've had, uh, this morning now that's bled into the afternoon.

We talked about your multifaceted journey and all of the parts and pieces that make up that. We talked about defining your spiritual maturity and how it's important that we remember to, leaders must be, uh, held accountable because if you don't have someone with the guardrails, then that person is off to do whatever they please.

And we, you know, we have a, and we already have a perfect example of that. So 

[00:49:13] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: We do! 

[00:49:13] Ellington Brown: The genesis of, of the movement when you got the opportunity to talk about your, uh, uh, oh, uh, divine ap- appointment- Yeah ... and the, uh, whole woman reset and how it's important that we- As humans- 

[00:49:34] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: Yes ... 

[00:49:35] Ellington Brown: Allow God to continue to keep pouring these good things into us so that we have this overflow so that we can help other people.

If we, if we're depleted, man or female- Yes ... male or female, if, if you're depleted, then you, you, you can't help anyone. You can't even help yourself because, well, you don't even have enough to, to continue. So I thought that was really, really great, and the cost, either way, either overflowing it or not, there's a cost- Yes

and we all have to, uh, be held accountable at the end. We'll find out- Yes ... right then and there. So, uh, I think that is, we've had a wonderful conversation, and I really hope that we get... Well, I'm sure Rita is going to make sure that she's tie you up to get you to come back and talk to us about your upcoming, uh, work that's coming out shortly.

That would be, uh, absolutely wonderful. Rita, uh, what would you, would you like to close us, close out for us? 

[00:50:43] Ms. Rita Burke: Yes. Uh, I just want to say thank you so very much, Dr. Denise Gillard, for pouring into us. Usually at the end of our conversations, I will run upstairs to my husband and say, "That was great. That was great.

That was great. Guess what I learned? Guess what? Guess. That person was just wonderful." And so today I will be running upstairs to him and say- ... "Guess what? Guess what? Guess what? It was truly wonderful to have Dr. Denise Gillard on with us. She blessed me in a special way, and I know that her interview will bless our listeners."

So thank you, thank you, thank you, Dr. Denise! 

[00:51:24] Rev. Dr. Denise Gillard: What an honor we just give God the glory!

[00:51:33] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to SpeakUP! International! If you wish to contact our guest, Dr. Reverend Denise Gillard, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Dr. Gillard at wordwalkingglobalministries.ca

Dr. Gillard has other social media accounts you can use to connect with her, which will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. 

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