[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke, and Elton Brown! Today, we have Noah Mugenyi and he is going to read an excerpt from his book Restored, A Journey towards Forgiving and Healing. Dr. Noah, the floor is yours! 

[00:00:23] Noah Mugenyi: I'll go by Noah. Um, uh, I know my name carries and I'm deaf, which is confused as some people, but I'm a registered psychotherapist and that degree is a Master's of Divinity with of course, uh, you know, focusing clinical counseling.

Thank you so much Rita and Mr. Brown for this opportunity. I'm reading from Restored the Journey towards Forgiving and Healing, and this is the introduction. Your past need, not determine your future, your past need, not determine your future. This is what I have come to experience. This book tells the stories of my past as a survivor of war and and at risk child.

It explores childhood community belonging and what needs to be done to restore those who are marginalized by either past scar of colonialism and oppression. This book also contains not just my lived experiences, but also an expected hope that strengthened me not to give up in terms of trials. I'll leave it there and we can continue.

[00:01:36] Rita Burke: You have just heard the voice of Noah Mugenyi, who's been reading from his book about restoration and survival. Noah is an author, as you heard, and he will be talking to us in a very refreshing and bold way. He is a registered psychotherapist. He has worked as a mental health specialist at a number of organizations around the city.

Mr. McGinney describes his work as holistic. He's an author as I said early who frequently engages as a public speaker on mental health. Now, as we say on SpeakUP! International, we prefer for guests tell their own stories. And so there's so much more that I could say about our guest today, Noah the floor is yours and we'll have you tell your story so welcome to SpeakUP! International! 

[00:02:43] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Rita, for this opportunity and Mr. Brown! 

[00:02:48] Ellington Brown: I noticed in your bio you combine two attributes that you apply to your work, to your clients, and that is empathy and dignity. So can you talk to us about that? I would assume very powerful healing combination and how does your schooling come into play?

[00:03:22] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much Mr. Brown for that, uh, question as well. Uh, I believe that at the foundation of my work, which is of course the, what I call the philosophy of my clinical guidance lies this foundation of love, which I like to believe. I can only acquire or fail within because it's a, felt a sense for me from above, which is of course my creator, the God, besides my degree, of course, as I mentioned, I went to Tyndall, uh, seminary, um, one of the best schools that I can say, uh, that polishes not only pastors, but also leaders in our city.

Uh, and also on the other hand, for me, it was the clinical counseling that attracted me and I wanted to see. How can I use my skillset as a black clinician, but also who is a Christian leading with compassion, leading with love, looking at people from that intrinsic Ubuntu. We call it Ubuntu in Africa, that you are because of me and am because of you.

Our forefathers believe that no matter where you are, either you are black, brown, you put that first as the basis of recognizing that human person in front of you is actually as good as you. Yourself. The Bible goes on to say, you know, you treat yourself as you would love, you know, to be, you know, to treat your neighbor as you would love to be treated.

So I lead with that conviction that people are people just as myself and they come to me with pain, with maybe needing a sense of hope, but I really apply my clinical judgment from that. I, I call it theology, informs psychology. 

[00:05:12] Rita Burke: Indeed, quite. It's quite an overlap. It's quite a juxtaposition of theology and psychology and I think that's what our world needs.

My question to you at the beginning of our show, Noah, is what do you do in your role as a mental health specialist ex? Expand on that a little bit for us please.

[00:05:38] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you. Thank you, Rita, for that question. First of all, I'd just like to, uh, acknowledge you that I wear a lot of hats, including the, you know, of course the Blue Jays. I'm a father, I'm a son, I'm a partner. Uh, besides that, um. Then comes what I call my profession, um, pillar. Uh, I like to really operate within those realms of personal relation and professional, even when I guide my clients, really to look at how do we analyze some of the needs in your personal life?

How about professional or relational. So yes, what do I do as a mental health clinician when I perform or when I put on the hat of a clinical director at Toronto Psychotherapy a Clinic that I, uh, spearheaded. Uh, I'm more in the operation gear knowing that maybe we have a walking day, people can be walking.

Our doors, and maybe they're going through suicidal idealizations, uh, or they're just depressed. Uh, and maybe they just need to know can they get a sliding scale, uh, for a session, uh, stuff like that. So you are troubleshooting any need that might come to your door. Post pandemic. We moved from in office, as you know, to online, which has been virtual clinic.

Of course a lot of work has happened. Even from there, you are really leading from the same lenses of really clinically managing a clinic, but from a distance, people checking in, signing people in, doing individuals, couples, families, and of course, sometimes I do groups, be it anger management, but also I've been running this trauma-informed group just focused on PTSD and survivors of Trump.

That's in a nutshell what I can say I do besides supervising other people. Also, I do a bit of teaching long distance for some of the social workers in Africa. We are working on also amplifying some of mental health, uh, strategies in that region in the East African community, as I can speak of it as we go.

[00:07:39] Ellington Brown: So, Noah, can you tell me a little bit about the war in Uganda that you. Survive were the, those early experiences after the war in Uganda.

[00:08:00] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much. Uh, Mr. Brown. Uh, speaking of the war in Uganda, uh, it's actually a part of my, um, journey. In a sense that it brought a lot of, um, trauma in my, you know, my life, but also in my family. We are speaking of a war that was happening between the eighties. 82 is when the current president in power, Mr.

70, uh, of course, went back to the bushes and said, what's happening needs to be changed, uh, in his views. Uh, the natural resistance movement at the time. Of course, they still carry the same, uh. Kind of a acronym. They, they fought for really peace in the region, you know, bringing us back to Ugandans to where they thought the project trajectory of, um, you know, the country was going.

So that war claimed the life in my family. My sister ended up dying during that time. Uh, and of course that also brought a little bit of, um, my parents. Moving from one direction to another. Me and my brother was so displaced, uh, in two camps, and that's when we were captured by the militants and being forced into what I would consider today as child soldier.

I was too young to carry a gun. And I speak of this in the book on a surface level without retraumatizing our listeners, but my brother, whom I've also lost to the disease of addiction, Tony, he did a lot in during that war and he witnessed a lot beyond his mind as a young boy. So I always like to quote that in a war no one wins.

And they quote that again, in a war, no one wins, but we see a lot of loss. Destruction and long lasting scars of trauma. And that's been my journey. But how do we bounce from that? How do we overcome such scars of pain when you're speaking of a young mind witnessing such pain? So I've been an advocate. Uh, I started my journey as, uh, an aviator.

I trained as a flight dispatch, air traffic control, and moved into it. This work that I do today, which of course is meaningful to me beyond a paycheck. Just seeing people move from one place to another in their mind, I call it a shift, a blossoming shift. It's so beautiful to witness. And that alone is what drives me everyday.

Wake up to see people and walk alongside them. 

[00:10:37] Rita Burke: Uh, I like that statement in war. No one wins and I concur with it. Not only do I like it, I concur with it. I, I'm curious, and I'm sure audience would want to know, what, what led you into the healthcare, this the general umbrella, I believe's healthy. What led you into that field, into that career?

[00:11:08] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, R up, that follow up question. Yes. What led me into this work, I believe was actually beyond my own, you know, desires and dreams to get a degree and all of that. At the time, when I moved here in 2008, uh, that was of course going out of a recession, if you remember that time. So times were really tricky in Canada and coming here as an aviator , I had a job, uh, starting with, uh, a few contracts here and there, you know, flight planning and helping, you know, the, our Canadian forces troubleshoot some of the logistical dispatching and all of that in the Middle East because I was familiar.

I had worked in the Middle East a couple of years, uh, before coming here. So that was the beginning of my journey here. But then came the international experience being CED with. You know, new demands. And then I had to really rethink what was it to do an international development degree because I was doing some international development work at the time, KA Africa, which I can speak of, but day, or I could definitely look into this healthcare realm and stream and how I could really break it down to my journey, meaning mental headache and the trauma of the past.

And I was, how do I really, not only I had done a bit of counseling, but. I still had a long way to go. Even to this day, I tell people that we never hear from scouts of trauma. We. Look at them differently. And that's what really propelled me to, you know, of course seeking a degree, which would give me the theological foundational perspectives and looking at people from that lens, but also the clinical knowledge that I need and that it really celebrate every day to really be able to look at science and informo clinical, you know, goals and all of that.

So. My brother at the time when I joined Tyndale , he was actually going through a deep depression with his drinking. That also was a question on my mind. My father just recovered, you know, he's a survivor of, uh, you know, alcoholism. He's a pastor as we speak, as, as he's recovered completely. He does a, a meetings, but I could see the side of addiction taking my brother, but also the other beauty of it that my father recovered from it.

I was like, now I'm in the middle here. How can I be a drop of help for some of these families? Going through some of those stuff that my families are going through or have been through. 

[00:13:36] Ellington Brown: You talk Noah about, um, you seem to be, uh, good with these, uh, phrases. So one of the phrases that I saw was healed people heal others. What did healing actually require of you before you were able to go out and heal others? 

[00:14:02] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much Mr. Brown, for that. Uh, intriguing question also, I believe, uh, that human, let me paraphrase this a bit. That I believe that we humans we can offer. Some options, but God offers healing.

And I say that literally for somebody who is not a believer, they might not actually take it serious, but I believe also people need the medication and all of that before they can even come to my door to sit down and manage that anxiety or the suicidal idealization they're going through. So these two have to go hand in hand.

The spiritual aspect, maybe the medical aspect, uh, but also for me, I like to think when we give people options, when we meet people in that. Intersection as I call it, the intersection of opportunities, intersections of thoughts, and we need to slow down and be able to offer these people the listening ears.

But also for me, it's listening with my heart first. So if I listen to somebody with an open heart, with my open ears, give them that one hour. Either they paid or it's pro bono. They actually might start moving a needle in their sense of hope. They might have woken up really wanting to throw the tower, but sometimes these resources, and I mentioned it in my book, but sometimes the opportunities, the accessibility.

To some of these resources. It's not a typical simple thing. Like we might, somebody might just struggle to get to a phone to call somebody, maybe transportation, to get to that therapist, maybe cash to. So the availability of resources doesn't necessarily mean the accessibility to them. So I definitely think we have to offer people more opportunities, accessibility to really get to this place where people can actually even consider, uh, to be healed, to be looking at life differently. 

[00:16:08] Rita Burke: You have quite a lived story. You have quite the story that as you talk and you describe yourself and your experiences. A movie is beginning to well up inside of me.

Your story is deserving of a movie, and I'm sure you've considered this before and something else that you said before I ask my next question is, um, we never heal from the scars of trauma. I've never given much thought to that, but upon reflection, I hear what you're saying. I feel you and, uh, I, I fully understand. Now walk us through how you weave diversity and inclusion into your practice. How do you weave diversity and inclusion into what you do?

[00:17:03] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Rita Diversity, DEI, these have been buzzwords like in the past. I, I would say in the past 10, 15 years. But when you speak of, uh, people like you, you folks have been here longer than I. You, you probably, it's not the first time you, it's been webs, I call it the rhythm of these emergencies.

They come in a paradigm shift. This one we are experiencing around. Our expression in increasing our diversity. You know, our probably accessibility to some of these conversations as I like to think. It has been an emerging paradigm shift, and I love it. Not because we are at the center of talking about black lives and all of that, but it's actually an opportunity for communities to come at a table.

For communities to really gather together and approach systemic issues together. Because at the end of the day, either we are working at Sun Life or OTD, we are dealing with complex backgrounds of people and with different changing needs of newcomers. So we as a corporation, kind of, uh, uh, or maybe also organization, have to rethink how do we care for our people as we care for our customers.

That's what I tell some of the Bay folks. Uh, I believe that. For me, how I engage diversity, equity, and inclusion conversation. It's actually not just a talk, it's a walk. Meaning, how do I really address my neighbor when I wake up this morning, uh, as I walk past him, you know, he is having his kind of, I'm walking either to walk my dog even a "hi".

You know, it, it doesn't have to be black for me to greet them. I tell people, I have a friend of mine, I've really considered doing some collaborative work with him. He's a company's called Blink Equity. His name is is from Congo. His, uh, name is, uh, Paco. Uh, the, uh, he believes that equity should be like blinking blink equity.

Like anytime you blink, you should be blinking. Compassion, you should be blinking love with one. You should be blinking respect, you should be blinking. All of those good qualities of, um, a good human being. So my DEI walk is every day and I really try to get opportunities and I tell people that whenever I get a microphone to talk, that's an opportunity for me, not only to speak about the topic, but also to speak for those who are just behind the closets, they are not voiceless, they just haven't had the opportunity to speak. So this is really a very hot seat and I don't take it lightly. Yes, diversity, equitable, uh, conversations is an opportunity for communities to move forward, not to hide away from these talks.

[00:20:03] Ellington Brown: You are a Ugandan Canadian, so you're kind of, one foot is in one culture, the other foot is in another. So how do you navigate these two cultures, in a way that you can take those two cultures and use them in your approach to therapy. 

[00:20:29] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Mr. Brown. Yes, I'm, uh, Ugandan, I'm Canadian. Yes, I believe, uh, that's definitely something beautiful and any Ugandan would love to have those dual citizenships.

Uh, for me, uh, the way I look at it, it's actually, um, a responsibility. Uh, being Canadian, it's actually you, you bear, you know, the responsibilities of understanding, of being a Canadian and, uh, what that comes with it. But also on the other hand, I like to be, uh, to have a little sense of pride in me that I'm Africa first.

I'm a son of Africa first, who is, happens to be a Canadian at this time. And that could change probably for some people. But, uh, at the moment, having started a family here, raising three beautiful daughters and giving back to the community, not just the Ugandan. Canadians who are in the diaspora here, but also the randee.

I spoke of my mother being Randee. I speak the direct, the Kenyans who are here, who speak Swahili in this region. Some of the Nigerians have started coming to my clinic is European. So my role as a community builder, as a mental health advocate and educator, it's actually be open and receptive to really welcome conversations.

Offer guidance and resources and point people where they need to be pointed. Because being a therapist, that's actually my responsibility. A question I ask myself, what's my role? I think Rita had that one of the questions for me, but I think my responsibility every day is a question I ask myself every day and every day is gonna present opportunities.

Meaning some of them might be easier, some of them might be different, but that's life. 

[00:22:14] Rita Burke: Today on SpeakUP! International, we're having this, I call it refreshing and bold conversation with Noah Mugenyi and on SpeakUP! International. Our goal is to inspire, educate, and inform, and through his story, I think we're accomplishing our goals.

I want you to talk a little bit. About how you help a person who is talking suicide, who has suicidal ideations or thought, what tools do you use? What strategies to help that person to shift away from that mindset?

[00:23:05] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Rita, for that very loaded question as well. Anytime we hear, especially for young clinicians, suicidality, suicide, it's a buzz word and it's really very heavy because it really triggers us to jump into action, to jump into protection, to jump into preservation of life. But I can say over time, as I've gone through my years of, um, doing this work.

Doesn't get easier. It becomes more practical for you to make decisions in a timely manner, but also with whom. That probably could be a support system. Social circles, circles of care, as we call them, doctors for these people. If somebody is in an active suicidal idealization, this is a nine one one call for some people, depending on the severity, and that's the word I tell my clients the severity.

But before I can even go there, Rita, you're right. I just, if somebody just called me is a former client who just calling me, I wanna know, first of all how they're doing, where they're calling me from. Just troubleshoot these pieces because the phone call might disconnect. Somebody just gave you that news and you don't know where they're, you have to, you enter a 9 1 1 dispatcher, you might not be able to locate them.

So sometimes building report, even in those crucial moments for me, has really yielded some fruits for some people. Whereby you engage somebody and reassure them, of course, they're talking to you after 10 out of 10. I wanna come back to them maybe with a five, show the agents, but also reassure them that they're not alone.

And I think that's for me is number one rule for anybody going through anything. When somebody feels like they're in a free fall, we need to reassure them that they're not alone. Then from there we can offer some support. Sometimes that time is very crucial. As I said, if somebody is telling me they're the bridge and I wanna know the location, I wanna dispatch and at that time, the confidentiality goes out of the window because they're at the risk of humming themselves or somebody.

So I have a right to call 9 1 1 on their behalf or somebody who is around there, around them, somebody can see them. But if they're able, I would encourage if they're able to make that call with me. I've done a couple of times these phone calls. You encourage somebody to make that phone call together.

Sometimes we've escorted people to the ER, and maybe that's the opportunity. That's the opportunity you just had to get that phone call. For me, I look at it that way for me to get that phone call, it's not a burden. It's a blessing to really work with that individual. Reassuring them they're not alone, gonna get them the help they need, and making sure that maybe the, uh, hazards they might have around them, uh, medication equipments that it's actually kept intact before they can use it.

Uh, but you never leave that phone. You never leave it until they get the help you need.

[00:26:09] Ellington Brown: Wow! That was a, um, a lot of information that you, that you just gave. One thing that you mentioned and that's gonna stick with me, and that is, uh, in a war, no one wins and we've seen this played out over and over and over and over again. We're seeing it being played out right now in real time.

So we know that this is not the tool that is going to generate love. It's not, it's, it's gonna just generate more hate, more resentment. You are a Christian, you have a faith now you've had theological training. How does these tools, I guess I can call it that, how has your work at the seminary led into what you are doing today?

[00:27:13] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Mr. Brown. I think it would say that even Ms. Rita asked me along those lines, you know, but I definitely, I think gave the same assessment that my, um, leadership skillset started way, way young before, even as I went through life tribulations and trials at school. And when I went to Tyndale , I was lucky enough to be a part of the student council committee that was leading or spearheading leadership within the student life cycles that beat the seminary or also the, the, the, the undergraduate. Uh, we would definitely not only engage in theological talks, but also in clubs, books, reading, you know, celebrating life weddings, book launches, but also funerals.

Uh, just really, you know, Tyndale was such a school that exposed you to life within the community before you got into the community. That's why I'm so, sometimes I just drive to the seminary just to go and pray with, because they have one of the best chapels we have in our city. Uh, it's a hidden kind of treasure.

Uh, when the Pope came into this country, he went and stepped into this chapel, so I can speak of it and go on. I like to say that yes, that work through doing my master's program, but also being a part of the leadership team and, uh, warship, uh, music is a part of my life is another conversation. We saw that that was a community and we are still in touch by that.

Most of, I would say, 70% of our class still in contact. We know what's happening in people's lives and that's really a blessing, but we also keep track of each other. Of the work we are doing in the communities and cheering on one another no matter where you're from. That's also a message of hope when leaders are going through, of course, Lord Blocks, to be reminded that yes, they're not screwing up.

That's just life. You just need to pivot and get better at things, and you're not alone as a leader. Uh, the other thing is also the church. Uh, when I got out of Tyndale , I tagged in right away through the meeting house. Um, I moved on to another church, uh, after a couple years C3. But my life is been around community builders.

Community leaders, seeing where pain is and talking about homelessness. You know, refugees entering into our country. These are conversations that churches are always engaging every day, be it a soup kitchen or homelessness. They're actually walking with people, which is of course what I call Jesus life in a city.

Uh, that's what I've been doing since.

[00:30:06] Rita Burke: Here is a signature question that I like to ask. The people who join us on SpeakUP! International, and that question is, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

[00:30:23] Noah Mugenyi: Rita? Just to clarify a piece of advice that I've never or have ever been given. 

[00:30:28] Rita Burke: Have ever been given. You've received advice from someone. 

[00:30:35] Noah Mugenyi: I think I'm gonna go with my mom's. Uh, she's my number one hero. Uh, a woman that survived, uh, you know, domestic violence before the war, and then the abuse, and of course stayed because the community stood with her and reassured her.

She wasn't alone and she raised us. So she would always tell me, oh, tell us as children. She bought nine of us. Five, four have gone to be with the Lord, but five we're still here. She would say one of her main rule, which of course I believe I've carried over time, that rule number one, you don't give up.

And I didn't know what she meant at that time. At five and a half, I questioned the authenticity and the presence of the creator, but she was like, he's actually beside us. I was like, what in this pain? So she would say, no. You don't give up. And rule number two, repeat rule number one. I was like, then there's only one rule mom.

She's like, then go ahead. You don't give up. So with life throwing lemons as we call them, to us, to you, no matter what I tell my clients sometimes actually that day might not be. Of it if you actually push a little bit to hold onto hope, which of course, a message I give also in my book that hope alone for me, I define it as you hold on and persevere every day.

Hope because life actually is a journey that actually comes with waves, with hills, with valleys, and I'm telling you at times we are actually thrown off the detours and we just have to figure it out back on the highway.

[00:32:25] Ellington Brown: You in incorporate so many, uh, pieces from all parts of the universe, and you bring them together in order to provide a holistic package that will be powerful enough to unravel a lot of the damage that's been done just by people living, it's not their fault per se, it's just the way it is.

So how do you show people the light? I know that you talked about

if they're talking to you on the phone, you, there's certain questions that you ask. You are trying to get some context as to how you can move forward to, to help them. How do you deal with individuals that maybe you can't help? Maybe the therapy that you are are applying isn't helping them? I'm not gonna say it doesn't work, it just isn't helping them.

So how do you, what is the next step? 

[00:33:34] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much again, Mr. Brown, for that question. Yes. I don't think that every shoe would feed anybody and, uh, I, I like also to remind myself even within the realms of care, we have limitations, be it clinical limitation medication, and people may be their development delays and all of that.

But the other piece I liked also too. Really mentioned for some people as we troubleshoot either their goals of treatment, a client has to be a part of that. It's mutual. And sometimes you'll see gaps here and there. Maybe you know, somebody's struggling with mental health, but they also have an addiction.

So sometimes that is it medication? So you start really hypothesizing, is it this that's getting in the way for so and so, but like you said, Mr. Brown. There is gonna be a lot blocks for some folks, which of course, we have to really consider either what I would consider to be intensive care or approaches, uh, in-house, uh, treatments, um, depending on the issue we are talking about.

If somebody is really, I don't believe that these, let me backtrack on that. I think people, even when we don't have the answer, the right answer. For them. They need to know they have some options in life, and that's, I think, a gap sometimes. I see in healthcare systems, I worked in hospitals, addiction treatment centers.

Aftercare is where people fall through the cracks sometimes when they're sent home or when things. Then people don't have maybe the support systems. So sometimes we, in the clinical, uh, settings, we look at the resources, but also sometimes don't troubleshoot to go down and say, Hey, does Mr. Joe or Jason or James or Na Annette, do they really mean they have somebody to check on them?

When they go home, and that could be a zero. But for us, they say, yeah, somebody will. But that could be very crucial. So sometimes we have to troubleshoot beyond the clinical notes or whatever we've gotten from our clients to make sure that people have the resources, the tools, and the support systems, even with when we don't have the answer for them in the moment.

[00:35:52] Rita Burke: So let me shift to being a little bit more personal here. You said you've got children, you've got daughters, three daughters. How, how would they describe you as a dad? What would they say about you when you're not listening? 

[00:36:11] Noah Mugenyi: Uh, thank you so much. That's a big one. I, I don't wanna think that I'm one of the best dads in the world, but I think they have experienced love.

And when I call in my oldest one who is next door, I could, or if I call her in now, she just wants to come and give you a hug. And, and for me. As a kid growing up, even before the war or even after the war, we reunited with our family. That was not present with my dad, so. I wanted to change that. I wanted to shift that and speak to fathers who have grown in the same environment.

I say we, it starts with us to shift the needle, to show the love, to show the care, to be softer and all of that. So my daughters, I think they would describe me as loving, maybe caring and cooking because they enjoy a little bit of the African food that I make sometimes.

[00:37:04] Ellington Brown: African food. Ooh, I heard that. I don't know about anybody else, but I certainly, I certainly love to, to eat. So now that you, you brought it up. 

[00:37:18] Noah Mugenyi: Yes, I'm down for it. Mr. Brown. Anytime. Potluck. 

[00:37:21] Dr. Noah Mugenyi: What is your favorite dish? If not. What favorite dish you like to eat that's cooked by somebody else?

[00:37:29] Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much, Mr. Brown. No, I, uh, definitely like to brag a little, uh, within the realms of, um, you know, wisdom and of course, uh, humbleness that, uh, I started, uh, uh, as a chef after my high school. So I have my diploma in Cook as a cook. So I cooked for airlines as an airline chef before I went to school in, uh, Germany for my air traffic control schooling.

So that gave me the opportunity to either cook for Bri, share with Emirates, uh, by then, but you are learning all these new menus every three, six months. For some airlines, they switch those menus and so your menu kind of toolbox is loaded. But I was really, um, very lucky to be, uh, appointed a, a sous chef, uh, for sauces, making all the sauces that go on foods for all airlines so I can start with water and end up with a very delicious sauce if I have any veggies or even if there's no can of tomato.

And my kids love that. So I cook from Italian to Asia. Now we are eating noodles and we can cook fufu if we wanna go Africa and goat meat. 

[00:38:42] Rita Burke: So then when we meet to get a copy of your book, we can expect to have something really delicious, beautiful to eat. That's African. Oh, I like that. My mo is beginning to water already.

[00:39:01] Noah Mugenyi: I definitely, I'm open! 

[00:39:02] Rita Burke: So tell us about the last time you did something different, something new. 

[00:39:12] Noah Mugenyi: Uh, I would like to go. I think, uh, some of my, uh,

most people would describe me as an average African who knows a lot of things, not because by chance, but I think I take opportunities in learning. So I, I've, ever since I got into this country, I fly, I, sorry. I try to learn one thing. Meaning skiing, whatever that could be. Fishing, because Canada offers us.

Being a Canadian, it offers us a lot of opportunities to really be around water. Swimming is one thing. I swam for Uganda Olympic level as well. Uh. I swim a lot with my kids. We do a lot of things on water, but recently I got into golf. Something I also thought I could bring to Mr. Brown 'cause boys aren't golf and cars go hand in hand.

But, uh, that's something that has actually, um, has intrigued me to think that how can I look at this blessing of learning golf and connecting with men? The only place where I found people opening up. To you as a therapist, not as a therapist, but without you asking for their feelings. So golf opens that up to, for, for people.

So I was like, oh my goodness. So, uh, yes, I've been addicted to to, to the game since the pandemic and um, actually considering writing my second book on mental health and the game of golf, how they mimic and how we can actually turn down the emotions for boys and express if you miss something or if you lose.

Then the next hole in the game of golf is calling you to, you know, dust off, get ready, and then hit.

[00:40:53] Ellington Brown: Noah. I have to say something right here and now I, I, I hate golf. I don't, I, I, I don't like it. I, I tried it. Uh. Lord, forgive me, but I do. I do not like, do not like it. And it was so funny because I knew I didn't like it before I even went out there. But a friend of mine, he said, oh, come on, you gotta go.

He said, have you ever golfed? And I said, no. And he said, well then how can you say you don't like it if you've never tried it? And I said, okay, okay, I'll try it. I went out and tried this thing. By the time we got to the ninth hole, I was done. I'm, 

[00:41:32] Dr. Noah Mugenyi: oh my goodness! Oh my goodness! 

[00:41:34] Ellington Brown: I just kept putting my ball up to maybe like an inch before it fall in a hole, and then I would just, you know, put it in.

[00:41:42] Dr. Noah Mugenyi: At least you tried. At least you tried. It's not easy. Again, 

[00:41:45] Ellington Brown: I, I just found it. And you, but, but you are correct. Uh, conversations do fluctuate. They do move from one. Topic to another. Sometimes they hit on some really serious stuff, and they may not stay with it for maybe a minute or two, but it is brought up so that the grass can grab hold of it.

That's definitely something I, I, I just didn't like, I, I wanted, before we go, I wanted you to talk a little bit about your, your book Restored, A Journey Towards Forgiving And, Healing because. It weaves a lot of your personal trauma as is in that book, and you're using that as part of your therapy.

So how did that change you? Uh, because all of a sudden now you're just not a man. You're a man and a therapist because you're putting your story out there. So how does that feel? 

[00:42:46] Noah Mugenyi: I think that calls. For vulnerability to be exposed, to be expressed. Uh, and as, um, I got into this work as a therapist, vulnerability was one trait that, uh, I I, I consider to be, you know, as a man, you know, African men, sometimes you hold this and that.

But therapy actually taught me another version of looking at life. And of course, with the softness of my, um, growth in spirituality and understanding the work with Jesus. I was like, you know what? I don't think anybody's perfect out there, but we get this opportunity to fail and get up and try again and walk again, cry, laugh, and express, and find maybe somebody to lean on.

It's a journey. So I think that allowed me to really look at my pain. Some of those unspoken, you know, express stories that I share here. And I'm gonna probably read another paragraph in answering to you, Mr. Brown, on the war, and then the other part I would encourage my, uh, listeners, or our listeners to is the workbook, which of course can take you through your maybe day to day things you can do, how to overcome maybe an episode of being anxious.

This is, uh, reading from chapter one, War Child. The war left me with scars that will never be washed away. These scars can't be seen with naked eyes. They are a deep wounds of trauma, failings of hopelessness and helplessness. When I remember most of the smell, that horrendous stretch of, uh, gunpowder, it signifies me to me, the bloodshed that was all around me and others, and the sense of meaningless that the Ugandan war brought with it.

Yet the Almighty moved with me, my father, and my mother, and my remaining family members as we've led to safety and kept us alive. Yes, my all held more horrors for me than anything I have ever faced in my life. Unlike most little boys who may have been frightened by imaginary monsters under their bed. I was terrorized by the cruelties of war and the innocent bloodshed I had witnessed in the war.

We lived one day at a time, never knowing whose life would next to the end.

[00:45:17] Rita Burke: Noah, if I were get hold of your book, what three gems would I gain from reading your book? Just three of 'em. 

[00:45:31] Noah Mugenyi: I believe one, I like to say that my book is an invitation to anybody who is willing to listen, but it is also an invitation for you to pause, slow down, and reflect on your own journey. So using my journey as a reflection to just your situation.

The other part I say you might walk away with is a sense of hope. That really the book carries. It's just, uh, a glimpse, snapshot of my journey and not giving up in life when the life gets harder.

[00:46:10] Ellington Brown: Noah, I want to thank you so much for joining us. This has been an amazing conversation! It was well worth it, even though there were some challenges for us to arrive where we are at this moment, but I look at it as sometimes you have to walk through muddy water in order to get to solid ground, and this is the perfect example of, of that.

You give so much of yourself, Noah in. To your family, to your friends, to the people who you support mentally. And I just want to say thank you so much for the work that you do and that you have the best, uh, life ever. And also for those individuals who are looking towards finding support in the content that's going to be, uh, issued will contain information so that you can get to, uh, Mr. Mugenyi provided that you wish to seek his support. Rita, is there something that you'd like to add to that? 

[00:47:42] Dr. Noah Mugenyi: Thank you so much! 

[00:47:43] Rita Burke: Yes, I I You have a way. Noah of making people in your presence feel warm and comfortable and fuzzy.

I certainly appreciate that. I, I certainly was able to get a sense of authenticity.

I, I felt that you were. Honest and sincere and direct in a gentle way as you spoke with us, I feel that most definitely our audience will get some kind of inspiration from hearing your story, and as Elton likes to say, when you write your next book, we'd love to have you back. This has been a joy! I thank you! 

[00:48:39] Noah Mugenyi: Rita and Mr. Brown

i, uh, take my hat off, uh, at the end here to just, uh, say salute you, uh, for the work that you do here, but also beyond. Uh, this signifies your heart and the heart for the community, how big it is, so it's not just a medium, it is actually a way that God is working through this platform to reach his people.

So I definitely am keeping my ears open, my eyes wide and my heart receptive to further conversations beyond mine, and of course, growing with you. And I wish the best, of course, not only for today, but also as we get into the year and many years to come, that this work will continue and it'll stick.