[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! Today, our guest, Christine Smith Gonsalves is going to read an excerpt from her book, Black History Worldwide Presents Canadian Women of Influence. And with that, the virtual floor is yours, Ms. Gonsalves! 

[00:00:44] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Hey, good morning! I dedicate this book to those who came before us.

Men and women who braved the times they were in, they pushed upward and onward. Both brave people created legacies for future generations, for those of us who will never completely understand the obstacles and what it took to become what you were destined to be. Thanks to my mother. Learning, reading and curiosity were instilled into my young mind early on.

I just love learning and finding out more about whatever I come across. One of my favorite sayings is, I don't know what I don't know. As a tutor for the last few years, my students are surprised when they realize that I too learn something new every day. There's a whole world out there, so much to observe, so I love to learn.

I especially love history, geography, anything cultural and English literature, the above mentioned is important to me, but so is sharing what I learn. I think I would burst if I wasn't regularly reporting on what I have come across in any one day. Just ask my son. I've been pouring into his mind since he was very young, and he honors me by listening and absorbing what I share.

So there you have it. This book was created to share and honor 10 women who have sacrificed broke barriers and given of themselves in time periods that were not easy and welcoming. To do so by giving you some insight into the lives of these women, it will become your turn. To find out more, learn more, and share.

This book is for anyone from elementary age, children and above. The coloring pages can be enjoyed by anyone who likes the color, including myself. Adding color to the pages will bring the women to life for us. If you enjoy the puzzles, while there are 10 word searches for you to complete each word search includes words that were used in the biographical clips of each woman.

See if you can find where each word was mentioned within the biographies. In any case, the biographies themselves are just snippets of the lives of the 10 and women. Therefore, as you as always. I really encourage you to find out more about their lives, view the video clips that are also included, and visit some of the places that are associated with the women of this book.

[00:03:16] Rita Burke: Truly wonderful. The voice you just heard, as Elton said at the top of the show is that of Christine Smith Gonsalves. Now Christine is an author and a history buff. She's the daughter of parents from Bermuda and Jamaica, and she was once a social worker who has a lifelong passion for history, especially 19th century black history.

Christine's educational background includes anthropology, archeology. And reading. Christine has been fo recently she's been focusing on writing. As you know on SpeakUP! International, we traverse the world to find people we consider to be community builders. And today we'd love for you to hear Christine Smith Gonsalves story.

I welcome you to SpeakUP! International!

[00:04:31] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Thank you so much!

[00:04:36] Ellington Brown: We are so happy to have you, with us this, morning to Christine. I just wish the sun was shining a little more than, than what it is right now. Yeah. But then again, I'm greedy. I, you know, I want sun you know, sun every day and Rita always remind me, if you're in a plane 30,000 feet up, it's always blue sky and sunny.

So just keep your, I should keep my mind on up on that level. Which reminds me of the first thing I want to ask you, Christine, and that is, okay, your parents, they came from Bermuda and then they went from Bermuda to Jamaica and then from, I think Jamaica, then Canada. Is that correct? 

[00:05:17] Christine Smith Gonsalves: No, actually there was two parents. One from Bermuda and one from Jamaica. 

[00:05:21] Ellington Brown: Ah, 

[00:05:21] Christine Smith Gonsalves: They met, they met in, uh, Toronto. 

[00:05:23] Ellington Brown: In Toronto. Okay. 

[00:05:25] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Yeah. 

[00:05:25] Ellington Brown: Thank you very much. So, how did their, uh, their journey influence your way of thinking? 

[00:05:36] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Well, um, I. Growing up as, as a, as I, I guess I was the first born of, uh, them living in this new country. And so I, I was sort of the Guinea pig.

I, I was the Guinea pig, right. Because, uh, you know, new country, new way of doing things and I mean, looking back on it, it would would've been new for them too because they were accustomed to, you know, the ways of, you know, bringing up children here. But, so yeah, I was the Guinea pig. Um. They would've been introduced to a new culture.

So for example, when I think about, uh, sleepover parties for example, you know, that was a big thing with growing up with the kids in our neighborhood or my friends. And I know from typical sort of Caribbean people don't like, uh, sending their kids to sleep at other people's homes. But that's what we did.

You know, there was a group of us and we all went to each other's and we slept over and, and then they in turn came to my house and slept over. So those were, those were new things that they probably wouldn't have been accustomed to, but in their own home countries. Right. And, um, also there was, because they came from different cultures and I was born here, uh, there were things that they wouldn't have been accustomed to uh, I, I remember specifically one example in grade one. When my, uh, the teacher, we were having a Christmas party and the teachers asked for the parents, you know, to contribute snacks or whatever. And I remember being totally embarrassed with what my mother sent because you know, like most of the time you would selling Rice Krispies squares or that kind of thing.

You know, things that, you know, cheese, these chips. But my mother sent, and I didn't notice it until I got to school, right when I opened up the box, there was fruitcake, like black cake and like that totally embarrassed. I remember being really embarrassed about that. I mean, she meant well. But I remember as a little 6-year-old in grade one, I was embarrassed. 'cause first of all, like the kids are not gonna know what this is. Probably no one's going to eat it. I didn't even, I didn't even like the fruitcake, but she meant well. And um, you know, so kudos to her. But yeah, growing up in a different, having a different culture from your parents. It was different. And then of course we were the only family that looked like us. I was the only one in the whole school. So there was different things that they brought with them or that we had to get accustomed to as a family. I guess. 

[00:08:17] Ellington Brown: Wait, Rita? 

[00:08:17] Christine Smith Gonsalves: It was easier to speak like that when you're adult, when you're a kid. 

[00:08:21] Ellington Brown: Rita, isn't she the second person that we've met that didn't like that? Does not like fruit? Uh, I'm sorry, black cake.?

[00:08:31] Rita Burke: Yeah. We interviewed someone else who particularly enjoyed a fruit cake, but it's interesting that you talked about sleepovers last night. I was in a women's group online and that before we were talking about as well, the fact that. We, the parents didn't particularly endorse and embrace the concept of sleepover.

And in this culture, that's something that happens. And most of us on in that discussion last night, spoke with about the fact that we said, absolutely not. We were not going to allow our children to sleep over. So I liked that. And then I liked the piece about the fruitcake black cake thing that your mo, your mother very generously donated for that event.

And you were embarrassed. But you know what? Christine, Maya, Angelou's son used to be embarrassed about the way she dressed. So that's life, isn't it? So, so thank you so much for, for raising that. Tell us a little bit about your book, Christine. 

[00:09:34] Speaker 2: Um, before we go, I wanted to clarify one thing, and I hope no one's offended.

I didn't like the Jamaican fruitcake. I didn't like all the stuff they put in it, but I like the Guyanese fruitcake, the, the black cake. I like Guyanese black cake. So hope no listeners offended, but yeah, now it's out. Anyway, go ahead. I wanna 

[00:09:54] Rita Burke: hear, I wanna hear a little bit more about your book. 

[00:09:58] Speaker 2: Okay, so the, the, the book, the reason that I had, um, the reason that I created it was what I'm, what I'm seeing today a lot is that people that my mom worked with, or people that I had grown up, grown, grown up hearing about, you don't hear about them very much anymore.

And that, that's okay. Of course, you know, new generations, new people. But I think it's so important that we remember people that fought the good fight. And so the women that are in my mom's book, and of course a lot of people thought, why don't you have this person? Why don't you have that person? Well, I was getting my, my toe wet with this first activity book that I created.

I couldn't do everything. And I chose 10 people that, some of them my mom knew, some of them my mom worked with, and some of them I knew as kids as as a kid, right. And, um, so I, I just wanted to reacquaint people that the generations that didn't know about some of the women, maybe they forgot about those women or just remind us about some of the women, especially just in the last, you know, maybe the seventies, eighties.

Um, although I do have one woman spanning, starting in 1930s, Barbara Howard. Um, Barbara Howard is from the thirties. I never heard of Barbara Howard and Eleanor Collins. I never heard of Eleanor Collins. So there, so from the 1930s, probably till about the 1980s is where my, my, uh, writing spans. Um, yeah, I, I was amazed that being grown, born and grown up in Canada, there's people, of course I know I couldn't know everything about black history, but I never heard of Barbara Howard and I was quite surprised actually.

'cause she was an international, um, track in sprinting. So why had I never heard of her? And then Eleanor Collins, um, I believe she just died last year. She was 103, I think it was last year she died. Uh, I was watching, sitting down watching, uh, CBC one night, just, you know, on the TVs remote trying to click to watch something.

I saw this documentary came on about Eleanor Collins and I, Eleanor Collins, who's that? And so I watched it, the whole thing at the time that it was, uh, the documentary was taken, of course, she was still alive. She was quite an elegant lady. I mean, she must have been around a 99 a hundred at the time of the broadcast.

Very elegant. I, I was shocked that she even was at that age. She didn't look it. And so after, you know, feeling a few tears during that broadcast and after watching that documentary, you know, I said to myself, why is it that I never heard of, of Eleanor Collins? Why? And so, um, I included her and Barbara Howard in the book, and then other people from my childhood.

But yeah, that's how it came about. Just me at my stage in life, beginning to think, why is it that. We don't know about some of these people. Of course I know why they didn't, you know, powers that be didn't include certain types of people. I get that. But, uh, you know, later on in years, how come I still had never heard about there?

If it hadn't been for the CBC broadcast, I would. I mean, I probably would've heard of her at some point, but I just think it's a shame that, and not just black history, but other cultures as well, they've kept, uh, the history away from people. 

[00:13:44] Ellington Brown: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:44] Christine Smith Gonsalves: And I don't think that's right. I think people have a right to know what their culture and other cultures have a right to know what other cultures.

So that's how that this came about. 

[00:13:56] Ellington Brown: I, totally agree with you. I think it's very, very important that groups, uh, of our people exchange their history. To ensure that it doesn't get, it doesn't get lost in the sands of time. And the only way that you can do that is by communicating, telling stories and having people write the stories down.

And there's this, it seems like, or I should say it appears that a lot of the, I think it's Gen Z, that's where they're head is. They're not into, they don't wanna help anybody else. All they wanna do is preserve history. I mean, toys, everything, you name it, they're, they're figuring ways to preserve these, these things.

Because if we don't, there's someone that would, systematically taking our history away from us. And if we don't watch it, we'll have nothing. And if we don't have a history, how do we know how to go forward? So it's really, really important that we, remember, re re remember that I, your moms was, based on what I've, what I've read, it was a very compassionate woman.

And so I wanna know how did that compassion your mom's, how did that lead you to, uh, becoming, an individual that works in social work? 

[00:15:31] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Well, uh, I had not initially. I initially not initially, um, wanted to be a social worker since I was a little tiny kid. Um, my mom has kept all of, had kept all of our report cards, everything.

So you can go look back on my little scribbles or little notes and I was even in grade one, I always wanted to be a teacher. Right? I wanted to be a teacher, um, you know, maybe a teacher librarian or a history teacher. But, um, I ended up being a social worker 'cause my mother had been taking courses from Ryerson, uh, open college at the time.

And I sat down with, I would sit down and listened to her with her lectures. And that sort of got me interested in like, psychology and sociology and all this kind of thing. Right. So, um, that's why I ended up becoming a social worker. And you wanted to know exactly what again about that. Sorry.

[00:16:34] Ellington Brown: How old was your, how did your mother's compassion move you into social work? 

[00:16:42] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Okay. So yeah, after having watched a lot of her, a lot of the programs and the courses that she was into, it influenced me. And then I used to go and help her sometime with some of her programs, some of her groups with the kids.

And I guess it just kind of grew on me, right? And I saw the need, right? And then I would do summer jobs sometime with, uh, in the black community. My first summer job was downtown, uh, in Toronto and, uh, with, um, some young kids. And then I just felt like that's what I wanted to do. So, uh, I ended up going to school.

I got my, my degrees and, um, I, I ended up being bringing the helping position, right? So I, my first set of jobs was with the Ontario government and, and mother's, they call it Mother's Allowance, but Family Benefits, O-D-S-P-O-W. I worked in there for a while. And then, um, I ended up leaving. Um, I left because, you know, um, we had three kids and I was working to pay the sitters, so I took some time off work, but then I came back in again and I ended up doing voc rehab, vocational rehab at WSIV.

Um, I worked with some stroke patients. Uh, I was on a medical team for a while with travel insurance and, uh, making sure people had, you know, the proper coverage, but they were all helping, helping related and, um, I worked with a lot of women too, and I think that, um, my background, my mom's background, it helped with understanding people and getting it.

I think a lot of times when people go through their own stuff. Or see their own things in life, they're able to associate with people. And, um, at least I always find that if I'm going through something, the person that I'm going through, what I'm going through, someone else has gone through that. They are often in tune with what I'm, what I need.

So, um, yeah, 

I did that for men. That was the bulk of my career was in social work. And, uh, eventually I left because social work is good. It's helpful, you know, you're helping people, but social work is also stressful. It's, it's stressful and it's, uh, it's always funny. I tell my kids, don't go into, don't go into people related work.

It's, it's stressful. And, um, especially the last, the last, uh, role that I played, uh, it was, um, it's, it's takes a lot out of you. And sometime when you have your own issues, it's hard to help somebody else. And be there completely when you got your own issues. So eventually I stepped out of it. But, um, yeah, I enjoyed my work.

And it's funny, even after like 30 years, maybe after having left some of those jobs, I'll be in stores somewhere in summer company, Mrs. Als, I remember you. Thank you for helping me. Um, and I, I remember them, but you know, when you, you don't do these kinds of jobs to get anything out of for yourself, write what your heart leads you to, but it know, you know, you're on the right track and that you've meant something to someone in their life when 30 years they come up to you or see you on the street and say thank you.

So, um, I'm sure I left some little mark that somewhere, helped some people along the way and really that's what Eva Smith was about. My mom, um, yeah, was a helper. That's where her heart was. She was a giver. 

[00:20:34] Rita Burke: So, you know, uh, you said that social work can be a bit of a challenge because you're giving of yourself.

It's like you're giving of yourself and you're constantly giving of yourself. Listen to people, but also, I, I attended the black, The Ontario Black History Society's kickoff brunch at the beginning of February, and they talked about history beginning at home, and I'm sure you will agree with me, Christine, that for us in particular, if we want younger generations to learn about our history and their history, and for that to keep on going on and on and on, we have a responsibility as well to teach them about the people you wrote about in the book.

And about lots of other people. Now I wanna hear a little bit about what was it like for you to grow up in a home with two parents, one from one culture, one from another culture. Was that a bit of a challenge? Blending those, those differences? Was it a bit of a challenge? 

[00:21:50] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Yeah, I, I would think so. Uh, um, my mom, my mom came from humble beginnings, very humble, right?

She was born in Jamaica. She was brought up by her and her two sisters were brought up by, um, their grandmother. They were poor. And she always said that she had two dresses, one for church and one for school. Um, you know, don't waste food, don't that kind of thing, you know, she was very, they were poor there.

She was humble. Humble background wear. Um, Bermuda tends to be a little bit more, um, Bermuda's a different sort of country. Um, they're a little bit more fluent. Uh, they're very British and, um, I think there was some clashes between the two countries in terms of the growing up. I think that, um, not even delicate here.

I think that, um, one country that may be a little bit more fluent may not quite understand the, the lack of affluence that another country has. So you come from two different countries. Bermuda is up in the Atlantic. It's not considered West Indian. It's not considered Caribbean. As a matter of fact, just last night on YouTube, I watched this beautiful program about the Caribbean, um, on YouTube.

It was really good. And it went through all the Caribbean, all the different islands, everything. I didn't expect they would put Bermuda because, and they didn't. 'cause it's, it's up north, it's closer to North Carolina than it is down in the Caribbean. Right. So when you've got this country that's sort of, it's more fluent and you've got a country that's not, I mean, Jamaica's way bigger than Bermuda, but it's not, hasn't got that affluent, fluent affluency.

Right. Is that a word? Um, uh, not to say there's not wealthy people in Jamaica, but generally it's a difference in culture. And I think that, looking back on it, I would say that had a, there were some issues there. And then coming to this country and raising your kids and another country now that's very, very colonial kind of in, its in, its in its mind still back then and are trying to fit in.

Then, you know, living in a area, we lived in a middle class area, but we were the only ones that looked like us. We were the only black people. Right? And so there's all these things that are playing against a couple that comes to a new country. And again, when you're a little kid, you don't see that. You just go outside to play with your friends.

Every, no one said I was a black kid. Everybody used to play with their friends. But when you grow up and you look back and you go, and the question you just asked me, yeah, there's all these outside forces that are trying to, or that can either enable or disable a family, um, that's trying to make it in this new country.

[00:25:00] Ellington Brown: You are a social worker and also you're kind of like, and I'm using the word loosely, a historian, you're really much into, black history and pulling, grabbing hold of all of the dots and connecting them in whatever the proper way is for that specific generation that you're working on. Tell us a little bit about the way that you collect information as a historian.

[00:25:39] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Well, before being a historian or a history buff, I'm curious. I was always the kid at school. I asked, I asked a lot of questions. Ask poor Rita. Even before this interview as asking r so many questions, it's like, I need to know, I need to capture everything. That's my personality. I don't wanna just wing it.

Like even here, I've got my, got my billion notes and stuff. I, I'm curious. And, and so I, I was growing up, I grew up curious, as you can see behind me, these are only some of the books I have. Um, I learned to read at an early age. I love books. I love the library. I love the library. Doing a commercial here. Um, I said that I would never succumb to the online, you know, list audio books and all that.

But I have succumbeded. I mean, you know, what can I say? I like to listen. I like podcasts. I like to listen and learn. Um, I, I'm the kind of person that when you go on a go on a vacation, I wanna go to all the museums, right? I wanna go to the museums. Like, I, I remember a few years ago I was, uh, a director of a pregnancy care center and we had, uh, they took us to Halifax and, uh.

On one of the afternoons, they gave us a choice of, uh, going to the mall or going to see Pier One. Well, on this whole big bus, it was only two of us. Everybody went to the mall and my opinion is we can go to the mall for, you can go to the mall. Anytime we live in Toronto, there's lots of malls. I chose Pier One, one experience.

I love going to Pier One. My point is I love learning. So how do I learn? I read, I listen. I listen. Audio books. I'm a podcast freak. I love YouTube. I listen to all kinds of stories. And this YouTube's got a lot of stuff you can listen to. I told you about the Caribbean the other, other night I watched, um, all these different countries.

I go to seminars. I go to webinars. Um, I'm a learner. I'm a cur, I'm a curious person. I always say, the day Christine stops learning is when I'm six feet under. 

[00:28:11] Rita Burke: I hear you, Christine. I call myself a forever, forever, not a forever learner. And I too need to keep on learning. I I, I want to, to do my plug right now that on SpeakUP! International, we seek to inform, to educate and inspire true people's stories.

And we are speaking today with Christine Smith Gonzales. And that is exactly what we're doing. Uh, inadvertently we are talking about Christine and her story, but also her mother Eva Smith story coming through what Christine has to say. And talking about Eva Smith, who, who's well known in our community and who's contributed a great amount to our community.

You mentioned in your bio that she came on the domestic scheme. Tell her audience a little bit about a domestic scheme, please. 

[00:29:13] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Okay. Uh, the domestic scheme actually is one of the things that I, I find a lot of people don't know about. 'cause when I mention it often, like, especially to the, you know, younger generations, they don't know what it is.

Well, the, the West Indian Domestic Scheme took place between 1955 and 1967. It was a immigration program in Canada that targeted women in Canada, in the kid from the Caribbean. There seemed to have been a, I guess a lack of, um, labor available and people wanted domestics in Canada. So they went to the Caribbean and, um.

They offered you to come to Canada. It was for women between the ages of, lemme see, 18, the women between the ages of 18 and 35, I believe. And um, you work as a domestic for one year and then after that you're giving your landed papers. And it's kind of ironic because they're offering that program yet they didn't want us to come to their country.

Right. So you weren't good enough to come to their country as a, a regular person, you know, just wanting to come to Canada. But they sought Caribbean women. And so my mom came through that program. It says that 3000 women came to Canada through that program at the time, and she came in 1956. She worked for, you know, a family.

And the funny thing when I moved recently, when through all her stuff I saw pictures of her. Young Eva Smith, like I didn't know her then. She was a young Eva Smith and she was there with her, her charges, the three kids. And I often wonder sometime, uh, if they're still alive, if they are alive, they're probably in their eighties now, those kids.

But yeah, she came and, um, if you read anything about the domestic scheme, most of the women went to Montreal and Toronto, but it came with issues, right? It's like, uh, it was a good program and if you had your planning and your, you know, what you wanted to do on your mind, you could come and do your year, and then you go and do what you have to do, which is what she did.

But, you know, there is reports of, you know, discrimination. Um, I, I, I can understand how that would come about. You've got, you know, a typical Canadian family. All of a sudden you've got a a, a woman from the West Indies. Talks a little different. Um, probably may, maybe very sheltered, who knows? Um, my mom came, she was a dental assistant and she had studied a little bit in Connecticut first, but went back to Jamaica.

She wanted to come and be a dentist. She wanted to come to Canada to be a dentist. She did get accepted at the University of Toronto, but unfortunately she said she wasn't able to afford to do it. So, but she did it her one year, her time. And, um, I'm sure she was grateful for it. You know, she was able to support her family, her grandmother in Jamaica.

She always took care of them. She eventually, um, she sponsored her sister to England and my mother's family, you know, I always tell them, you guys, if it wasn't for my mother, I shouldn't say that. At some point they probably would've got got here. But my mother is what brought them here. She started with her first cousin and then, well she did, there was three or four families.

She would make sure she kind of sponsored one from each family, and then it was up to them to continue and to, to con to sponsor the rest of their little bunch. But most of them are here now. And, um, but yeah, you know, the point is for that program, how many of us today really, how many of us today would, would do that, right?

Point is do what you gotta do. Point is in that activity book that I wrote, you do what you have to do. And that's why those women are strong women. Because really, if we were to do a survey today, how many, how many people with the attitudes and the, the way we think today, how many would've done that left their home?

A place they don't know anything about people. They don't look like, no, no family, no money, nothing talk differently. How many people would do that? But many people today, especially the older generation, that's how they came to Canada. 

[00:33:57] Ellington Brown: Yes, they, they took whatever road would lead them in. And they really, the didn't allow the structure or the what, you know, cleaning somebody's house.

Okay, if that's the way that I can, reach my goal, then this, I'm gonna do this. And I, I think that most, black individuals, especially, you know, our grandmothers, grandfathers. They, they didn't talk very much, at least my grandparents didn't talk very much. But they were very strong people 'cause they did exactly what they wanted to do when they wanted to do it.

And they didn't allow anyone to get in there and, in their way, just like when they, wanted to buy the farm, my grandma, my grandpa. And they threw up obstacles to try to keep him from buying it. Well, when it was all said and done, he did, he did purchase it. And it's still in our, family to this, this day.

I wanna know something that you said earlier, and it was about history and how you really want to preserve it for generations that follow us. What made you, or what ignited you to be so passionate about preserving, our history. 

[00:35:35] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Yeah, and I think that boil down to my curiosity. I'm curious. I like to learn and, uh, you know, the more I, the more I am around people, I, again, I do some tutoring.

I do English tutoring and, and, um, talk to some of the kids, especially, you know, especially the black kids that I, that I tutor and they don't know, they're not aware. They, they seem to think that we just arrived on the boat a few years ago, right? The boat landed decades ago. Black people had been in Canada in 16, 16 hundreds.

And, and it's like, I kept hearing this about, oh, um, like any, any colleagues that I had in the United States or groups, whatever. I remember we went to Ohio one time with, with a business group and these people in Ohio, it was a bunch of us. They were shocked. We were from Toronto, Y'all got black people in Canada? You know, whatcha talking about?

And that, I kept hearing that kind of thing over and over, even from people that live in Canada. And I said, you know, like, no. Something, something, something's not right. Something's not right here, right? I mean, I don't profess to know everything, trust me. I don't know. Everything I learn, I'm learning. But how, how could it be that you could be in a country and not know that there was black people like 17 hundreds, 1600, 1700, 1819 hundreds?

How? And so I just started, um, I guess it was bothering me. Then I always wanted to do, uh, I'd always wanted to write a book since I was a kid. I've kept diaries and notes and, and, um, again, I wanted to get my foot wet and try something. Just wanted to see how I would, how I would do. And so I said, you know what?

Why don't I just take some of this information that I'm curious about? And it's good for my students because I wanted to spread the word. And one of the things too is that every Black History month in February when my students, you know, they, they always seem to get these projects from their teachers.

Talk about black history person, and they always talk about the same people. Do not get me wrong. Anybody listening to this, do not get me wrong. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, um, Viola Desmond, those are all good people. Jesse Jackson just died. I met him once when I was 13 at a push convention in the States.

Those are all good people, but I want pet peeves is that these kids are writing about the same people every year. My point is, is next, uh, when RAC history month, right about somebody you don't know about. Write about somebody new, go on the internet, read a book, something. There's lots and lots and lots and lots of black people expose, expand your knowledge about who you could write about.

So that's how I really came up with this idea in my own small way to start exposing myself, expanding my knowledge, and hoping other people will as well. 

[00:39:00] Rita Burke: It's interesting. 

[00:39:00] Christine Smith Gonsalves: And lastly, I just wanted to say for each woman that I write about in my activity book, the last sentence is all for all 10 of them.

Telling people that this is all your taste. I leave it up to you now to go and expand and learn more. I'm just lighting the fire a little bit for you. 

[00:39:20] Rita Burke: It's interesting, Christine, that you say that there's a tendency to talk about, to present, to write about the same people over and over again. There's no question about that.

At one point I want to make is that Dr. Gina Augustine is one of those people who came in the domestic program. 

[00:39:44] Christine Smith Gonsalves: She is, yes. She was a good friend of my mother. 

[00:39:46] Rita Burke: Yes. And we are currently in my place in worship that all of February we talk about Black History Month and people who have made their contributions.

And I'm mentoring a few of our young congregants during Black History Month and I, I suggested to one of them that she does a piece. Three people who have made their contributions and just, just like you said, she came up with Dr. Jean with Viol, and I believe it might have been Lincoln Lexander. And I said to her, much respect to all of 'em, but they're getting the media who finds somebody else.

And she was smart enough to try and she came up with three different people and presented that to our congregation last week. And I was really impressed. I was happy with her. And I think we need to, like you said, share with the younger generations that there are lots and lots and lots and lots of other people, not just, not just those three people and those four people.

And given the fact that. Initially, black History month was started by an American in America as black as Negro history Week. We need to acknowledge that and to give, to give kudos to to that. But going back to your knowledge, your experience, your writing and everything else about that, talk a little bit about, you've kind of alluded to a little bit about that, about what it was like for you to be growing up in Toronto.

[00:41:39] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Well, Toronto was not Toronto. It was back then, trust me. Um, I, and you know what, when you're a little kid, you don't know that. You just, you just grow up. You play with your friends. You are the only one that's black, you just play with your friends. Never faced any racism on my street. Right. Um, although my mother said when she was dying, she told me that one of the, one of the people on our street, uh, had put up a petition to get us off the street when we moved there.

Now my mother's smart. She didn't tell us that. I mean, we were small and I always wondered why, because one particular house, no one on the street used to deal with her. She cut herself off. And I believe that's why she didn't want us on the street. Aside from that, we knew everybody on our street. We were friends.

Went in their house. They came in our house, uh, going to school. I was the, I was the first black kid in our school. I didn't know that at the time, but my mom told me a lot of these things when she was dying. I asked her a lot of things on her deathbed 'cause I realized that I'm never gonna be able to ask her again.

So I was the first black kid, um, all through elementary school. It wasn't until I got to like grade nine. When I got to grade nine, it was like, oh, there's a few. Whoa. But of course I would say probably most of them were from the West end, the Caribbean. There was very few people growing up that ha that were born here.

Even to this day, people still last island am I from, and often they're shocked that I was born here because people of my generation tended to be coming from other countries. Uh, what's ironic about my high school, I'm not gonna name it, but today it's the, it's the, it's the black Afrocentric location for high school and they have a steel pan, a steel band group there.

I would've loved to have done that 'cause I do play steel, steel pan and I would've loved that! So just goes to show you how time has passed. Uh, my parents were very involved with, um, the JCA Jamaican Canadian Association. That association, my mom, to the day she died, was involved with that. Um, the Christmas parties, the, the picnics.

Uh, I grew up in the British Methodist Episcopal Church down on Shaw street. So I think they made an effort to keep us grounded, um, in a white society basically.

[00:44:21] Ellington Brown: Can you tell us a little bit about your, what is it called? The West Indian

Federation Club? 

[00:44:30] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Oh, that was, that is a club. I, I vaguely remember that. Um, you remember, well back in those days when I was a kid, if you wanted anything, black product hair. Anything you had to go downtown to Bathhurst Street, you weren't gonna find it out here. Wow. Our GTA, you can find those things anywhere today, but back then you had to go on street cars and buses and subways and all of that big adventure downtown Toronto.

Um, the club you just mentioned, I vaguely remember it. It was Bathurst in college and I remember going up these stairs and I think my parents used to call it the Whiff, the Whiff Club. Um, but the name that you just mentioned, uh, I looked it up, I think that's what it was called, but they called it the witch club.

I just remember it was a, a place that all the sort of immigrant black immigrants, whatever, that were in that area or wherever, and the GTA would go there. And I can just remember was a kid. There was tables and you know, food and. You know, fun and talking camaraderie, that kind of thing. Um, but I remember that location, I believe it was across from St. Stevens Church on College Street, which again is that whole area of Bathurst Street College is where all those kinds of, um, activities businesses were. And for us it was a long way 'cause we lived at Birch Mountain and Lawrence, of course, Birch Mountain and Lawrence is nothing today, but back then, oh my gosh, bus and subway and street car. It was a big long adventure to get down there. But that's where they went to keep in touch with their, their people. 

[00:46:22] Rita Burke: Do you know Christine, I I, I know many people who say, and I'm sure you hear this as well, that um, they're busy in February. They're invited to speak at events. They're invited to present all kinds of things for fabric.

[00:46:42] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:43] Rita Burke: What if you were invited to a Black History event, and you may probably have been to speak about black history. What three gems would you want to leave with your audience? 

[00:46:55] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Well, it's funny that you're asking me that. Uh, just as I got my toe wet with the, this activity book that I created, I'm getting my toe wet again very soon.

And it's about black history. Uh, but three things that I think that I would leave with was, one of them would be, be curious and read about black Canadians. Don't depend on anybody else to tell you about it. Don't, don't depend on, you know, someone to tell you or go to school. Learn about it. Be curious.

Right? Read about Canadian blocks. There's lots, right? You've been here since the 16 hundreds, and once you start digging up, you see this, every province has their own individual black history and people that involved in it, as well as the, the country as a whole. Um, uh, as what I've mentioned a little earlier, I really encourage kids to learn more about black history.

What else is out there? Uh, every, every Black History month, uh, in February, although really black history is every day, we always hear that black history is every day. But in February when there's a big concentration on it, think beyond your nose. Go on. Internet technology. There's so much information there.

Look and see who else was in Canada, who else did things in Canada? Who, who else, um, did important things and left legacies in Canada. Again, think beyond your nose, right? And. The last thing I would suggest is take advantage of older people. One of my biggest regrets that I've mentioned to Rita, one of my biggest regrets is that when I was a little kid, I was being a little kid.

What I wouldn't give now for an hour via a time machine to go back, right? People that I knew in the British Methodist, Episcopal, the BME Church, right? Um, for, you know, people that I knew, I, I was in the midst of some really important people that I had no clue about until I was an adult. What I wouldn't give to talk to Mrs. Ho again, what I wouldn't give to talk to Uncle Don Moore, Harry Gary, Sr. A 80 l. These are people that were in my midst. We'd go to their homes visit, but I was just a kid. You were just going to uncle so and so's home, right? Saw Mr. Gary. Hi, Mr. Gary Chitchat. But as an adult, I would've been asking the important questions, telling you about your life, what was it like, et cetera, et cetera.

I didn't know. So kids, people, anybody. If you've got people that you know, that have experienced, uh, times in black history, have done things in the community, talk to them, document it, write it down.

[00:50:04] Rita Burke: Very important, isn't it? Very, very important for them to write it down and, and to tell the stories. But you know, Christine, I'm sure you've heard this saying before and, and you asked the question, why didn't you know about all of these people? And, uh, there's an old African proverb that says, until the lion starts to write, the story will always be told from the hunter's perspective.

And I think we should ground ourself in that statement. So we should always be telling our story.

[00:50:43] Christine Smith Gonsalves: It, um, well, I do my best. I, I make sure that my, uh, not every kid, like how I was a kid. Not every kid's gonna be interested or at the right place, but I share, I share with my, especially my son. My son is very interested. I share with my son. I try and share with my grandkids. And, um, that's all I can do is I can do my part.

And that's really what this is all about, including you are talking with me today is my little, my little bit that I'm trying, trying to, uh. Connect with, learn about myself, learn about my country, and, um, pass on. And if everybody does a little bit, then the information expands. It naturally will come. But you know, when you're a kid, kids don't think like that.

Kids just wanna have fun. They, they don't, they just know Uncle Donna's, uncle Don, well, I didn't know Uncle Don's, uncle Don Moore, but you don't know that at the time. Mm-hmm. So, you know, now I'm at an age and at a time in my life 

[00:51:50] Ellington Brown: mm-hmm. 

[00:51:50] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Where I get it. So now I see myself obligated to do what I'm doing.

[00:51:57] Ellington Brown: What two historian or famous people that you found to be an inspiration and that fueled your hunger? For more information, you know how to do things, you know, your way of thinking. What two people that come to mind that you feel were Yeah. Influential.?

[00:52:33] Christine Smith Gonsalves: I have to say one person that was influential. Influential would be my mom. Um, my mother, like me. Just a plain person, you know, no big fancy, just regular people. But my mother always, even when we were little kids, always told us, do unto others. Right? And she, she had a big heart. Uh, she, she was nice. She was a kind woman.

I know one of the questions you had asked me was, um, how, what kind of things did my mom do? My mother didn't do a lot of things like action. I mean, I'm not getting this right. She, she did a lot of things in the community, but she wasn't showy, is what I'm trying to say. My mother wasn't showy, but she had a big heart and I think that stems from her humble life.

She came from. My mother knew what it was to not have. Many of us today don't know what it is to ha not have. We live in these big countries, these big cities, and people do well. Not everybody does well, but we take a lot of things for granted here. But when I see my mother, I remember as a kid one time, there was, this was a cold, cold winter, and this young man, he was black.

He wasn't even dressed, he was dressed, not warm enough. Um, you could look at him and knew this guy was, was needy. She invited him. He's handing out flyers to the mailbox and she brought him in, um, gave him a big, huge hunkered cake, gave him a drink, let him get warm. Those are the kinds of things that my mom did.

And I think she passed that on to me because it's like my heart breaks, you know, when I see people at the, at uh, at the, when you're in your car and they're at the, at the stoplight and they have their buckets, it breaks my heart. 'cause people don't do those things. You gotta be down and out to be doing that.

And so I think my mother instilled in me the eyesight to see, to look. And if we all look, you can see. You go to the grocery store and you see somebody buy an older person, an elderly person buying just a can of soup and some broccoli and couldn't afford to pay for that. If we choose to see, we can see, and I think that's what my mom instilled in my life is that, uh, just she was compassionate.

And I can't say that I'm always compassionate. I can't say I've been a perfect person, but I think that my mother has someone that, uh, lived a good life in terms of helping others. Um, somebody else. Oh my goodness.

I don't know. There's so many people that I could think of that, um, influenced me in my life or that I, I think would be a good role model. Um. I think of someone like Harriet Tubman. Okay, Harriet Tubman. They say she what? Rescued 300 people. That lady could have crossed into the Canada and never went back, right?

How many of us would've gone through all that? The dogs chasing us, and you know, going through water and all that and get over there and then just say, okay, I'm done. You're on your own. That lady went back over and over and over. I, I really feel I have a strong heart. I, I feel strong for women. I think women are strong people.

Sorry guys. I'm not saying anything against men and guys, but I look at women, I look at the women in my li women in my lives, my family, friends, women in history, women are strong. Women raise families. They raise families alone. They raise families, um, abuse under bad conditions, but they carry on. Women are strong people.

So I know I haven't sort of answered your question, but I really think that I have a real strong heart for women. And maybe that's why I did 10 women. Many people have said, when are you gonna do 10 men? What about the men? Well, you know, often men are the ones that are people are writing about. I really have a heart for women.

I think women are strong people. 

[00:57:20] Ellington Brown: I would have to, I would definitely have to agree with you about women being strong. My mother raised three boys by herself, and never once did she complain. Never did we ever feel that she was going to abandon us in any way, shape or form. And to me, that showed me the strength.

That women have, because a lot of women would've, you know, put us on, put us on the doorstep and walked away and never looked back. But most women are not built that way. They're built to handle the pressure, um, and which is absolutely amazing to actually witness such such power. I, I wanna thank you so much for joining us today.

We got to know a little bit about you and, and your passion and being a social worker historian and several other things that you did that you are, are into and you're so passionate about the, about history and finding it and preserving it for future generations. And so I must say that. What you do and what we do here at SpeakUP! International, it's kind of very much the same where we are preserving what people are doing, giving to their communities, but they would know, no one will ever would ever know because it's not gonna be written in a proper history book that these people have done these things.

So in order for people to understand current history, if you wanna call it that, we are here to collect that. And we're so glad that we were able to talk to you and now add you to that collection of, of inspirational stories. And when you write your next book, I want you to come back to us or if something really, important, it's something that you wanna talk about.

And you're looking for someplace to, to stand up and, and say it out loud, please come back and, see Rita or myself, and we'll have another conversation on SpeakUP! International. 

[00:59:56] Christine Smith Gonsalves: Thank you! Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you!

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