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Zafea Lerman: What If a Science Class Could Stop A War?

Ellington Brown

A chemist slips into dark alleys after midnight (Dr. Zafra Lerman), climbs to an attic, and teaches a seminar that could cost her freedom. By morning, she is back on the university circuit, lecturing in plain sight. That contrast frames our conversation with Dr. Zafra Lerman—scientist, educator, and peace builder—whose work proves that knowledge can be both shield and bridge.

We start with her clandestine support for Soviet refuseniks: smuggling journals, collecting CVs, and hosting secret classes so isolated scientists could stay connected to a global community. From there, we explore how a childhood in a resource-poor Israel forged values of service, creativity, and grit, captured in a birthday letter that set her life’s compass. Those values later shaped the Malta Conferences, where scientists from across the Middle East—Israel, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and the Gulf—met with Nobel laureates to tackle shared problems like water scarcity, air pollution, climate change, and science education. In those rooms, propaganda gave way to proximity; former “enemies” discovered collaborators.

If you believe science can be a common language that outlives the loudest slogans, this story will stay with you. Listen, share it with someone who needs hope, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Subscribe for more conversations that turn courage into action and ideas into impact.

Website: https://www.zafralerman.com/

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[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Well, Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown. Today we have Zafea Lerman, and she's going to read an excerpt from her book, Human Rights and Peace, a Personal Odyssey. The virtual floor is yours!

[00:00:29] Zafea Lerman: Okay. I picked up a short excerpt from my human rights activities in the Soviet Union because I thought that this. Something unusual for a woman alone to do, and therefore I want to share it. Eh, I will just give a short introduction. I chaired for 26 years for the American Chemical Society, the subcommittee and scientific freedom in human rights.

And as chair of this committee, I traveled to all the places that had human rights abuses and tried to help dissidents. So in order to enter the Soviet Union, I always entered with a group of scientists, and during the day we were. Visiting universities, delivering lectures and being really scientist, visiting scientist.

But at night, after midnight, I would do my human rights activities, so I went this excel to read. Each day during this visit, my colleagues and I met with Soviet professionals, attended seminar and presented lecture. Then usually well after midnight, I would leave the hotel for other crucial meetings. This was my real purpose for going to the Soviet Union.

The late night meetings were with Dissidents. Refuseniks. Refuseniks were the people that asked to immigrate scientists and were denied. To leave the country, but were fired from their job. Were denied any contact with scientists and were blamed as parasites because they don't work. Many of them were in hard labor in, so this were the Refuseniks.

Eh, where did I mention it here? I knew I was risking my own safety conducting these meetings because it was illegal in the Soviet Union to bring scientific material to Refuseniks conduct seminar with them or take their CV and other. Information to bring back to the stage. At dinner time, I would identify one person among the group.

Often it was a woman because in my opinion, women are braver who looked reliable to me. I would say to this person. If I am not here for breakfast tomorrow morning, please call the American Embassy. I wanted to make sure that if something happened to me, an American representative would know about it. In the we Hour of the morning, I would go to a second place determined by the Refuseniks.

Usually it was a dark alley and somebody would be waiting for me there. From there, that person would take me to another dark alley we where we gathered other Refuseniks, and then we would go to an apartment and usually assemble in an attic where I would conduct a seminar. I would bring them scientific material.

And collect their cvs to distribute in the United States. While in the Soviet Union, I also met with families of incidents who were in prison, which was a deeply moving experience. I was always very careful to make sure that nobody followed me on one of the trip from mosque to. Our tour guide from Intu, the government sponsored Soviet tourist company.

Very nice late lady, wanted to sit next to me on the plane. We had a wonderful conversation, and then she whispered in my ear, how did it go for you last night? I was shocked. She was a very nice lady and never reported what she knew about my activities even today. I don't know how she figured out what I was actually doing in the Soviet Union.

[00:05:15] Rita Burke: Wonderful! The eloquent and intriguing voice that you just heard. Is none other than Dr. Zafea Lerman, who is a world renowned chemist, educator, and peace builder. She was reading from her book, as Elton mentioned at the top of the show. Dr. Lerman is the founder and president of Malta Conferences Foundation.

She has spent decades fighting for human rights, advocating for persecuted scientists in the Soviet Union and China. She also developed groundbreaking methods to teach science through the arts, to unhoused youth and incarcerated individuals. I could say so much more about Dr. Leman, but I want for her to be the voice of her own story because it makes it so much more authentic. And so I welcome you, Dr. Zafea Lerman to SpeakUP! International! 

[00:06:38] Zafea Lerman: Thank you very much, Rita! 

[00:06:42] Ellington Brown: Dr. Lerman, your journey started in war torn Israel. So can you take us back to those early days and share how that experience shaped your desire to use science for peace? 

[00:07:02] Zafea Lerman: I was born and go, grew up in Israel. It was a developing country.

No road, no cars everything was rationed food, clothes, but my father was a politician working with David Ian, the first Prime Minister building this country. So I felt like high society. I even didn't know that it means that we are poor. We didn't not have a hot shower, we did not have a lot of things. When I look now at children going here, I have a school next to me and when I see at three o'clock all the big SUVs coming and every SUV is one mother waiting for one child polluting the environment because in summer they have the engine running, so they have air condition when they wait and in winter they want hit while they wait and they double park.

The street is completely closed. The pool child come out, comes out from the school, runs into the SUV. Goes home and then the mother is probably planning the next program she already planned for the child, if it's poor, if it's dead, and the poor child is just programmed by the mother. I think my childhood let people like me develop our creativity, our values, because nobody waited for us when we came out of school, our parents were too busy to come and wait.

They did not have SUVs. Even not a smaller car. Not a small car. So we left school by ourself. And took the longest way we could go home, so we could spend more time together. And my heart is broken for these children that are missing this wonderful experience in the afternoon. We had to invent our own things, what to do our own games.

We did not have toys either, so we had to build them if we wanted toys, and I felt that this developed really our creativity because nothing was given to us. We had to invent everything, but our parents instilled as us, values. And I always like to tell the story how in my sixth birthday, my father left a letter in my shoe for my birthday and I opened the envelope and the letter read.

Today is your sixth birthday. "I wish you, eh, all the best and I hope you will go to be loyal to your country. To your nation and to your family. Pay attention to the order, the country, the nation in family. And then he wrote, I'm giving you for your birthday, this amount of money. And you will divide it to three.

One third you will give to help all the orphan children that came from the Holocaust and don't have parents. And you will help them. The fund that helps them. The other third you will give to the national fund to plant trees in the country because it's, there was nothing, only yellow. So you will help in planting trees and making the country green.

And one third you can do what you want." 

When you, by the age of six. Grow up like that you get different values than getting a present by the age of six, a new television or a new iPad or a new iPhone. It's a very, different values that are instilled from a very young age and for a very young age.

I knew that I came to this planet in order to help other people. 

[00:11:34] Ellington Brown: Did your father influence you to become a scientist? 

[00:11:39] Zafea Lerman: No, this is, it's a matter note, but I had tremendous curiosity from a very young age. No, my father wanted me to be a teacher of kindergarten, so I'll have vacation when my children have vacation, and he argued with me that this is the best profession for a woman, which surprised me.

Because he always tried to direct me to be a leader everywhere and thought that this would be a better profession than a scientist. This was a surprise, but he was calculating about the vacation of children that I should have vacation at the same time. This was his calculation. No, I knew I'll be a scientist from a very young age because by the age of two already I was asking questions that cannot be answered. I had neighbors that were identical twins. And I thought that it's the greatest thing in the world, but I was convinced that I have one too. So I was sitting in front of the mirror for hours, being sure that my twin is there somewhere, but she does want to come and be with me, and my parents were trying to persuade me that it's me there.

So I said, if it's me there, how am I here and there? And please explain to me if it's not an identical twin, how can I be to places in the same place? And this was bothering me from the age of two. By the age of three, we got a radio. And it was a wooden, small box, and I lived in Haifa or in National next to Haifa by that year.

And I, my father opened it and I said this is the voice of Jerusalem. And I said the voice of Jerusalem, Jerusalem is, so far, how do I hear the voice of Jerusalem? I was questioning, I want an explanation. How do I hear the voice of Jerusalem? And this kind of questions I was asking from a very young age, and then came school.

I went, I graduated from kindergarten in one day. Not in one year. In one day because I saw the teacher pinching a child. So I came home. And I announced that I graduated from kindergarten and my parents explained to me that I have to go, it's the law. And I said, I'm not going. My father said, so what do you want to do?

I said, I'm going to first grade, and he said, you are too young and how will you get there? I said, you have influence. You are in this education department. You use your influence. I'm not going back. After one day and at the end I managed to go to school in first grade. 

[00:15:00] Rita Burke: So at the age of at the age of two, you made that decision that you were not going to school because you saw a teacher pinching a child. 

[00:15:10] Zafea Lerman: It was by the age of five when I went to kindergarten. 

[00:15:17] Rita Burke: We seek to inspire, to inform and to educate, and we've just started this conversation and your stories are packed with inspiration and education. Your dad seems to me as if he was quite the man. What did he say? Your gift was supposed to be shared. First of all, the country, nation, and then family.

I'm impressed. I'm very impressed. Wish I had known him. Now you are known as a peace builder. How did you get that title? Let's hear some stories please. 

[00:16:01] Zafea Lerman: I just I think that organizing the Malta conferences, the idea came to me after September 11th. And as I said, I was the chair of the subcommittee on Scientific Freedom and human Rights, and I came to the board of the American Chemical Society and I said, I want my committee to concentrate on the Middle East. And the question is how do you want to concentrate on the Middle East? And I said, I want to organize a conference. We are scientists from all the Middle East countries. That are war in each other are hostile to each other. I don't care. Iran and Syria.

Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinian, and everybody. Jordan, Egypt, the Emirates. I won scientists from all of the countries with no exception and one roof. For five days with several Nobel laureate and give a platform to these people to see what unites them rather than what separates them. To give them a platform to stop demonizing the unknown other, and to give them a platform to develop collaboration that no one country can solve this problem alone only with collaboration like water issues.

Air pollution, climate change, and even developing a unified curriculum for science education and. With several Nobel lawyers that will be the catalyst for all this initiative. And this was after September 11th, but in the Middle East, it was the heights of the Intifada. The Intifada was the uprising of the Palestinian by using suicide bombs.

All over Israel, in restaurants, in buses, in, in every centers. People were killed on both sides in huge number. It was a terrible period. So they said to me in this period, that is so dangerous, you want to now bring all these people together? And I said, yes, because I want to stop it. I want these people to work towards peace and in addition, scientists have special status with the governments, not in the US. The US there is no respect to education, all to science, but all over the world, scientists are very respected. In addition, governments cannot build weapon of math distraction without scientists. So science can prolong life, but science can cut life short.

And I want therefore, the scientist to feel the responsibility to walk towards peace. And because science is international, it's an international language, science doesn't see religion, cultural language. I always like to say that a chemist in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and a chemist in Bethlehem, the West Bank, can communicate to each other their chemistry without needing their own language.

And therefore science diplomacy should succeed where other kind of diplomacy would fail. In the beginning there was a very big shock with my idea, and there were a lot of hesitance and questions and obstacles, but at the end board approved it. And in 2003, in the heights of the Infa, the first Malta conference took place.

Why is it called Malta conference? Because it was in on the island of Malta. Because I thought that island. It's safer than mainland. Harder to get. In addition, direct flight to Malta were very few, only from Rome or Frankfurt or London, or maybe two, three more places. So it was very complicated for everybody to get to because you had to change planes and it took almost a day. So my calculation was that the terrorists would decide that it's not worth for them to spend a whole day to go to Malta to kill a lot of Muslims and several Jews. So this is why Malta was selected. And this is why the name the Malta conferences.

[00:21:27] Ellington Brown: You said that science can be a bridge even between enemies. So what was the spark between founding the malter conferences, and how do these gatherings overcome deep rooted political divides? 

[00:21:47] Zafea Lerman: Because these people realize that they are all scientists, so they have immediately some common, and then when they spend time with each other, they stay in the hotel, one room next to each other.

They eat the meals with each other. And they suddenly developed friendships that overcome cosms of distrust and intolerance. They realized that they're really the same. I remember when the Iraqis arrived and they had tears in the eyes when they came to me and they said we were lied to all our life. We studied, we were told, we read in books that the Israelis are monsters, they even don't look like real human being, that they are just horrible. And here we find the nicest human being, great scientists, that we are happy to collaborate with them. And why were we lied to all our life? This tells you that when people see each other, they realize that they're really not enemies.

They have a lot, much more in common than what separates them. 

[00:23:12] Rita Burke: History has consistently lied to people though, so it's wonderful to have. People like you who are peace builders trying to bring people together. Because going back to your statement, no one country can solve problems alone. No one is an island.

And I really, that really resonates with me. It's a very powerful statement, and it would be wonderful in the year 2025 if our political leaders could. Could buy into that, could embrace that philosophy or scientifically at looking at life. But lemme move on to something else here that you have frequently advocated for the rights of others.

Talk to us about some of the groups that you have helped that aren't scientists please. 

[00:24:07] Zafea Lerman: In what point of view are you talking now? My methods of education, my human rights activities. 

[00:24:14] Rita Burke: Let's talk about your methods of education. 

[00:24:18] Zafea Lerman: Okay. I believe strongly that science education is a human rights that belongs to all, and I said it for many years.

And his Royal Highness Prince Hasan from Jordan Sain brother, that is an outstanding human being, always likes. To quote me by saying this sentence, and because I believe it's a human rights, I believe that I have to fight that people that are left out of science will be part of the scientific technological society because if we will live a big part of our population.

Out of knowledge in science and technology, we will really build two class society that is divided not by royalty by the knowledge of science and technology. Rita said to me, oh, you are eh, technological savvy. This is where people are divided today and in order, from a very young age not to be left behind.

I, after doing research on secondary isotope effect that I'm not going to bore your audience with what it is. I decided to really. Do something with my belief that science education is a human right, and I got an offer to build from Scratch Science Institute at Columbia College in Chicago. 

That used to be an outstanding school because it had a president by the name of Michael Alexandro that was visionary, and he felt that everybody should get education. It was a school for art and communication. Open admission. So any child that could not have a fancy portfolio to go to, the Art Institute can come and get excellent education in the arts and.

I realized very early because my student taught me and I was a good student to learn from them that the way that science is taught all over will not work with the students because a teacher comes and starts today, we will learn the structure of the atom. Student don't know what the teachers is and why should they know the structure of the atom.

So I learned very soon that I have to make the class relevant to the students that I am not starting with the structure of the atom, but Chicago is surrounded by nuclear power plants. So I'll start discussing nuclear power plant and. Something that I can relate to that is every day in the media, I told them to bring articles to prove to them that it's in the media.

Then I was asking what it is, and discussing the nuclear power plan, we had to go down to the of the atom. 

[00:27:45] Ellington Brown: Wow! 

[00:27:45] Zafea Lerman: So it went from the relevant to the abstract and not from the abstract to the relevant. In addition, they taught me, I tried to write a reaction on the blackboard and some people did not understand. So one of my dance students got up, said, I can explain it.

Assign the students. The different chemicals and choreographed this to show the reaction and everybody understood it. So I said, oh, I better learn. How they learn. And then another student that was an art student I wanted to discuss a solution in crystals. And we had a projecting microscope that the plate was very hard.

It took a drop of a solution that on the screen you saw a big red circle and then because the heat caused the water to evaporate, the crystals started coming. Like purple feather. You start seeing a modern art being painted in front of your. Eyes. And then I could explain, what are crystals? I said this is a nice way to visualize.

To make a long story short, I started teaching the students and they, and evaluating them. Assessing them by showing their knowledge in any way they want, because. I hated multiple choice test hated, and I hated the fact that in one hour I had to show my knowledge and what if I don't feel well in that hour?

Because in our scripture we, it says, we had a very famous rabbi that says, don't do it to your friend, what you hate. To be done to you. His name was. I told the students that they are all my friends and I will never do to my friends what I hated to be done to me. So they will not write multiple choice tests.

They will show their knowledge. In the way they want, and then only I will evaluate them. The whole class will evaluate them. So there will not be any biases. And the most beautiful artwork was done. Beautiful dances. The theater students did, like Romeo and Juliet, A love story between Sodium and Chloe to form table salt.

It was, and it became famous all over the world and it did miracles with underprivileged students in universities and from K to 12. And in all that, the show that I'm not playing the science, my committee members, the committee I told you about, scientific freedom in human eyes were. Dr. Tom Spiro, that was the chair of chemistry at Princeton University and Dr. Jack Seiner, that was the chair of chemistry at Indiana University, one Ivy League school, one big state school and Columbia College. Open admission, altered communication students. High percentage, city students. 

[00:31:32] Ellington Brown: Okay. 

Let me let me ask, I wanna ask you a question our time is it's being eaten away. And I know you have another appointment 

[00:31:41] Zafea Lerman: I can take five minutes, maybe late five minutes. 

[00:31:44] Ellington Brown: Okay. So then what advice would you give to young women who want to pursue a career in S.T.E.M., but face maybe cultural resistance? 

[00:32:00] Zafea Lerman: I was the only girl in my high school. And it was tough by that day, and I just persisted.

Believe in yourself, know that you are good in S.T.E.M., and just go for that. Find yourself a great mentor. I did not have great mentor, but I'm a great mentor to a lot of other women that became very successful and a great mentor is extremely important this young women should find a good mentor that will encourage them, support them, and give them the help.

But what I told my students, always pursue what you want to pursue because the people will telling them. You are majoring in art, what will you do with that? You are majoring in animation. You are majoring in theater. What will you do with all that computer science? Yes. And I said, do what you heart desire.

But if you learn in my class, critical thinking, you will be successful in every subject you choose. I have extremely successful students. I was in the Emmy Award in Hollywood that one of my students got the Emmy Award for his animation, but he said that his success, is the great critical thinking that he developed in the science classes he took and the projects in animation that he did in the science classes, that animation, that communicated science and this what made them success.

[00:34:01] Rita Burke: Way back you talked about the importance of relevance, and I believe I know you're an educator because I found that information in your bio, and I do believe that in teacher education programs, they stress the importance of relevance. But somewhere along the line, I think there's a tendency for people to forget all that.

And your example of how you taught those students. And you started off by making it relevant to their own life. Really struck a bell for me. I want you to talk a little bit about your experience teaching incarcerated individuals. Tell us some stories about that, please. 

[00:34:48] Zafea Lerman: Yeah, I'll make example.

One woman. I will not mention name. And she arrived in my class and because for good behavior, she was allowed. To take classes, but within a certain time. So the time she was allowed happened to be my class. What the last thing she wanted in her life is science, but this was what she could take. So she was very, she was an older woman.

She was. Grandmother, but a grand young grandmother, 40 years old, but all therefore being an undergraduate. And she was very frightened and she said, I don't know science, I'm afraid of science. And I said. What would you like to do with your life? And she said, I would like to write song and. Sings and perform.

So I said, oh, this is exactly what you can do in my class. And she said, in your class, I thought it's a science class. I said, yes, it's a science class. You will learn and then you will show what you learn by writing a song and singing. And she relaxed and was pleased with that, really suspicious of me because she never heard about singing here, a science class and she wrote a song on air pollution when we discussed air pollution. That was very accurately scientific, very accurately beautiful song. She wrote beautiful music to that and she performed it to the whole class and got a standing ovation. Now I did you, you stopped me in the middle. That when I start talking about Princeton in Indiana, in order to prove that I'm not making Mickey Mouse the science, I persuade the Dish two chair of chemistry to write with me a proposal to the National Science Foundation that we will teach the same class in the three institution that are very different from each other, but then.

All the institutions in the US will be able to adapt it because they will identified, or with an Ivy League private school or a big state school, or an open admission out school. So we did it and the National Science Foundation called the project, their flagship project. And the title of the class was From Ozone to Oil Spill Chemistry, the Environment and New.

And in order to prove that my students can be second to none, they flew every year to Princeton and we would have a joint symposium. The whole media from the whole neighborhood covered it and called it a meeting of two cultures. And my students presented their project, Princeton student there, and they spend all the, I think, together and also it looked like two culture, but they were one group.

But this student had to go to Princeton, and in the beginning she did not tell me that she's a prisoner. So she told me that I have to write a letter and ask permission for her to go, and I sent to my life. Grandmother told me a grandmother, to whom am I asking permission, but I did not ask her. I just thought, to whom it may concern, and she went to Princeton and got standing ovation.

And then the class went to Indiana for joint symposium and she got standing ovation and then. I took her for lunch and then she said, I have to tell you, to whom you send a letter, you sent it to the prison authorities to allow me to go. And because of all that success, I was released earlier and with me being her mentor, she was on the dean's list.

Then I persuaded her to get a master of Arts and Entertainment Management, and she got a master degree and she's very successful. So this is one example. 

[00:39:56] Ellington Brown: Wow! That is a wonderful story . It is definitely inspiring. With so much division in the world today, what gives you hope? 

[00:40:10] Zafea Lerman: That I will manage to persuade more people to join to make the world a better place.

In order to have an atom bomb, you need a critical math of uranium. In rich uranium, you hear the word enrich uranium all the time. Now with Iran enrich uranium to start a chain reaction. If it's below the critical math, nothing happens. I want a critical math of people that will start a chain reaction for peace.

And this what gives me hope that I will still manage to persuade. And this is what my why I wrote my book. It's a call for people to get involved, to know, to see what one woman could do and tell everybody you can do the same. And if more people want to see a different world, then we will see a different world.

But if everybody will just sit at home, we will not see a different world. 

[00:41:24] Rita Burke: I agree so much that everybody's gotta become involved and to take some ownership for our world. I like that. Now. When was the last time you did something for the first time? I'm sure there are lots of firsts for you. The kindergarten story rings a bell for 

[00:41:42] Zafea Lerman: me.

Oh, it's a lot of first. A lot. 

[00:41:44] Rita Burke: First, when was the last time you did something for the first time? 

[00:41:48] Zafea Lerman: The last time I did something for the first time was. Last Tuesday, August 19th, 2025 were in the conference of the American Chemical Society. 12,000 chemists were there in Washington dc They, there was.

A symposium that I was the last speaker, but this symposium was in my honor. So the first time that I gave a talk in a symposium that the 10 speakers were all talking. Just about me and the titles of the talks were Erman Wonder Woman in Chemistry, Erman, queen of Science, diplomacy. Another one from Chicago, cist said, A Nature, a Natural Air.

What is it? The force of nature in the windy city. So these were the titles, and this was the first time in my life to give a talk in a symposium that was all devoted to me,

[00:43:17] Ellington Brown: Your stories have been so inspiring. So what is the one message you hope readers and listeners carry forward after hearing your story?

[00:43:34] Zafea Lerman: There is messages to almost everybody. First I came, when I came to the stage, I came with a child, eight years old as a single mom. No family, no money, no relatives, nobody. And I was successful. And there is a message to all the single moms in the world that they can be successful. And there is a chapter there coming to America there is a message on if to educators think about how you want to educate the people.

There are a lot of ways to teach. I hated chemistry in high school. I can be honest with that. Hated it because it was taught in a way that I didn't like it. To all the teachers thing about creative ways of teaching, every child can learn if you give it. The right methods of teaching. There is no one method fits all.

It's the same like in fashion design. There is no one dress that will fit the women. You have to adjust it, and everybody learns different. We have visual learners, istic learners. You have to adjust your teaching to learning. Another message is think about all the innocent people that are in jail and tortured for doing nothing.

Maybe say, defending somebody. And because the government arrest them and abuses their human rights, you can help them as small letters are being written. All the dissidents that are free today. Tell me that knowing that people are care for them, sending letter for them, gave them the strength to continue.

And the last one and the most important now in the period we are now with so many words, is. Join and try to help to achieve peace. I agree. Everybody can do it. Everybody can do it. Don't, I always told my students never. Join a demonstration. If you don't know really what it is. I don't care what side you take all the time.

It's from intelligent knowledge point of view. I am so appalled to see students at Columbia University, New York, that probably the pe, the parents pay $80,000 a year. Screaming like crazy from the river to the sea. And when they are asked which sea, they say the Black Sea, they don't even know what they're talking.

No idea. So what education are they getting? 

[00:46:55] Ellington Brown: Oh yeah. That is a very good question. And that's a question I think that we're gonna have to leave for another time and. Discussion. I wanna take this opportunity to thank you so much Dr. Lerman, for taking time to tell your very inspirational stories about your personal journey and the fact that people should not be afraid of science because science can be a bridge between between enemies, which is a, a.

Definitely an excellent way of looking at ways make peace. We talked about human rights and you being an advocate and one for education, which leads to innovation your association with stem. Which I thought was excellent and the power of storytelling. You definitely are a storyteller, and please thank you so much and when you write your next book please let us know.

We would love to hear here from you. Rita, do you have anything you wanna add to that? 

[00:48:09] Rita Burke: I just wanna say thank you, Dr. Luhrman for. Gracing our platform with your presence. And our certainly is not enough to hear of all of the fascinating things that you have contributed to this world. There's no question that you are a peace builder and we've only got a smidgen of what you've done.

And I remember Mother Teresa saying. For there to be peace in the world, it needs to begin in the home, and I have held onto that statement for most of my life. So thank you for being a peace builder. I certainly appreciate what you've said and what you've done, and go on and continue to build those bridges.

[00:48:58] Zafea Lerman: Thank you very much. And I just want to add one more thing. All the proceeds of my book are going towards the MAL conferences using Science Diplomas bridge to piece in the Middle East. So I, small books we sell as small reviews. People write on Amazon, they are helping the peace process. Thank you very much for having me! 

[00:49:26] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact our guests, Ms. Zafea Lerman, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Ms. leman at https://www.zafralerman.com/. Ms. Lehrman has other social media accounts you can use to connect to her that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. 

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