Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Speak Up International with Rita Burke and Elton.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Brown, we have the opportunity to speak with people from all over the world. Today we are back in Canada and we have no other than Mr Rohan Thompson. Rohan is currently the Director of People and Equity for the County of Dufferin. He is a member of the County's Diversity, equity inclusion community advisory committee. Rohan is a social worker and therapist who runs his own private practice. He uses a client-centered, trauma-informed, anti-racist, stress-based approach. Rohan has always had a focus and commitment to youth development and crime prevention. As we say on Speak Up International, we prefer for guests to tell their own stories. So that's all I will say now about ROHAM, and we welcome you to Speak Up International.

Speaker 3: 1:22

Thank you, Rita, for the kind introduction. Elton, thank you for the invitation. Really honored and excited to be part of this great platform that you guys have created. So thank you for letting me be a part of this.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Oh, it's a pleasure to have you as part of the Speak Up International family. We look for people like you who are community builders and who provide stories that inspires other individuals, hopefully to help them on their journey, whatever that may be. So what inspired you to take on the role of Director of People and Equity with the County of Dufferin?

Speaker 3: 2:07

Yeah, good, first question. So I had from a sort of professional perspective. I was working for the Peel District School Board prior to the opportunity to come to the county. I had been at Peel District School Board for a number of years and I was starting to think about other growth opportunities, right, and this opportunity? Here at the county they had created this role the Director of People and Equity.

Speaker 3: 2:33

It was the inaugural sort of opportunity for somebody to compete and be in this role. They were on the cutting edge of starting down a new journey for the organization and was wanting to bring in somebody to help support that journey. So yeah, so I thought it was a great chance and I put my name in the hat and competed and the rest is history, so to speak. And the work is this opportunity is pretty much a sort of an ongoing development or building on my previous work experiences. I've got a long track record working in doing municipal work and local government work. For a significant part of my career, my focus, my work was really externally focused. So community, community engagement, community development, community programs, community policy and such. And there came a point where there started to be a bit of a pivot where my work started to focus on the internal operations of organization, and this is just another opportunity to continue that good work.

Speaker 2: 3:31

So yeah, I am curious about your choice of careers. Talk to us, please, and tell our listeners why did you choose to go on that journey.

Speaker 3: 3:44

Why did you choose to go on that journey? Yeah, great, great question. I don't even know if I really understand the answer myself, but I did do my best. As a young person, I had my own sort of struggles and challenges, and there were some really important people around me important family members, coaches, friends that really helped me keep me on the straight and narrow as best as they can. And then, as I came out of that phase, I always knew I wanted to pay it forward. I didn't know exactly what that was going to look like, but I knew I wanted to pay it forward and hopefully do for others what I wanted to be able to do for at least one person, what these people have done for me.

Speaker 3: 4:22

When I was in university, I went to Wilfrid Laurier University and in my undergrad I was also playing football, and as a football player we were connected to community programs.

Speaker 3: 4:32

And so I started to get connected to youth programs, and so I worked as a youth worker at different places, worked in group homes and was really focused on working with youth at risk, so to speak, and moved on from being a frontline worker to then being more like a supervisor of these programs, working with the municipality. I worked at the city of Kitchener for a long time and so really moved more into a supervisory sort of strategic role, while doing the same work and expanding it from not just youth but, more so, community and communities that are experiencing marginalization. That's really what brought me to the work, was wanting to pay it forward and then as I got introduced to community, it really spoke to me right. It always felt like home, felt like I had some gifts and some talents where it seemed as though the application of those things in this space was having a positive impact and was helping me to feel good, so I just stuck with it.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Sounds like an amazing, fascinating story of upward trajectory and you were paying it all back. There's so many people in our community whose hearts and their souls are in that place where they pay back. Hence we call them community builders. So I appreciate what you've said. Now tell us what a director of people and equity does. What was your day in that role?

Speaker 3: 6:03

I don't know if there are two days that are the same in this role. I'll attempt to answer the question, rita. The boring part of that answer is I provide strategic oversight direction. I'm responsible for the people and equity departments, and so our department is a small but mighty department. We service the entire organization, so we work with all areas of the county, of the municipality, and so we got a couple of areas that we focus on all things human resources, all things health and safety, all things learning and organizational development, all things human rights and respect in the workplace, and all things equity, diversity and inclusion.

Speaker 3: 6:45

So those are all of the areas that sort of fall under people and equity that I have the opportunity to work with, an excellent team that does brilliant work and it's easy, they make me look good and so yeah, so that's really the focus of the role, and in addition to that there are corporate and strategic directions. I help to bring some insight to help the organization meet those corporate goals, so to speak. And then the last thing, the boring part is we have some legislative responsibilities all over the place, as human resources does and health and safety does, and part of my job is to make sure that we're meeting those legislative responsibilities and not putting the organization or the staff at any undue risk. Right, so that's the job. But, as I mentioned, this is the inaugural role, right, and so I'm the new person in the role, so it's also an opportunity. It was an opportunity, continues to be an opportunity to craft it and build it, because nobody else was in the role prior to that.

Speaker 1: 7:44

Wow, that is absolutely amazing. You talked about some of the challenges and I'd like to know, in this organization, what challenges did you face in implementing DEI and how did you go about addressing those challenges?

Speaker 3: 8:03

Yeah, big question. So yeah, I'll attempt to answer that. And so I think probably one of the biggest challenges bless you, rita one of the biggest challenges was actually just getting started. So the organization, the municipality, had done some equity work early on but was still pretty early in their journey, and so trying to get the organization to think about equity work systemically and how to begin to operationalize equity principles, equity ideas, to be able to produce equitable outcomes, that was a bit of a challenge. So we're basically starting from scratch, so to speak. But, like I said, the organization had done some work, some learning and some capacity building, but in terms of having a strategic plan, being able to identify exactly what those issues were and putting together a plan to figure that out, we hadn't done that work yet. So we brought on some folks to support us, to really canvas the organization and ask some critical questions of the entire staff, all levels of staff, so that we were able to be able to pinpoint and say with certainty what were the problems that we were trying to address, right, I think so often with equity work we lose sight. That's a really critical step, right. What are the problems are you trying to address? And so that was long work, lots of engagement, lots of conversation, but we felt that we got there and then we needed to then create a plan that would address those problems that had been identified by staff, and it was an excellent collaborative process. Lots of folks across the organization participated as being on this advisory team. We had a third party consultant support us and develop a four year equity strategic plan that was ultimately approved by our council and appropriately resourced Right, and so I think we're pretty lucky on that front that we were appropriately resourced and then away we went.

Speaker 3: 10:01

And so some of the challenges I think one is just startup, so building the inertia to get going, and then another challenge is all folks are at different parts in their journey in terms of understanding equity Right, and I think we see in the broader sort of society today there are some intentional sort of misunderstandings around equity and what it is, and some of that stuff then also filters into the workplace, and so it's trying to make sure that there's a general baseline understanding of what our EDI work is. So trying to get people to that baseline understanding, baseline language, to create the environment to be able to move the work forward. So I don't think we're any different than any other organization in that front. We have some early adopters, we've got some keeners, we've got some folks who are not too sure about this stuff but they're positive about it, but they need to learn a little bit more before they can figure out where they fit into this puzzle. And then we have some folks who are probably at the other end of the spectrum and resistant to the work because, for a host of reasons, many of which there's just a sort of ongoing misunderstanding of what equity work is right. So, yeah, so those are some of the challenges we're about.

Speaker 3: 11:16

So our equity strategic plan was approved in the fall of 2023. So we're about a year and a half or so into it. We were able to do a pulse check with the organization to see all of the work that we've been doing for the last year and a half. Has it created any change? And the results from that survey show clearly that the work we've been doing has had some positive impacts. It shows in some areas we've not had any progress stagnant and then we have some areas that continue to lag. But it's a positive sort of initial understanding or evaluation of the impact of the work that we're doing so. We're making some headway, but it's heavy work every day.

Speaker 2: 12:00

I like how you framed that. You talked about intentional misunderstandings. And that has consistently followed us, the people Intentional misunderstanding for whatever reason, for whatever rationale. But you know what? In your bio you talk about a client-centered approach, and I worked in fields in the past where that term was bantered around a lot.

Speaker 1: 12:28

So I needed your help in understanding.

Speaker 2: 12:31

What does that look like, what does it feel like, what does it sound?

Speaker 3: 12:35

like yeah, yeah, good, great question.

Speaker 3: 12:38

So for folks on the call, in addition to my work here at the county and the different municipalities and local government that I've worked at, I'm also a licensed practicing social work therapist slash psychotherapist, right, and so this idea of client-centered applies in my clinical work, but it also applies in my other work, and so it's just this idea of one really centering the client, centering the group, centering the community and respecting that they have the knowledge around what it is that needs to happen.

Speaker 3: 13:14

Often experts can come in and say this is what needs to happen, and so it's this top-down approach and awareness from a client-centered approach is really honoring the fact that folks have an intimate understanding of what it is the issues are that they have and what is going to be required to be able to address those issues and really working with folks from a very empathetic perspective. And the belief is that with the right supports, folks can figure out the answers and the solutions that work best for them. And if the question is, what does a client-centered approach mean for me? I don't know if that's the dictionary meaning, but that's the meaning I make of it and attempt to operationalize that.

Speaker 1: 13:58

We'll go along with that definition.

Speaker 3: 14:00

Good, that's my statement and I'm sticking to it. Good.

Speaker 1: 14:04

That's my statement and I'm sticking to it, so I want to talk about some of your therapeutic and community work, and so what motivated you to establish Breakthrough Counseling and Wellness Services, and what gaps in mental health services are you trying to shore up, phil?

Speaker 3: 14:34

Yeah, really great question. So I think I'll answer your question with telling a bit of a story, and I've told this story before, so I'm not breaking any confidences. So in my earlier days and as I was seeking therapeutic services and supports for myself, I had a pretty rough, unfortunate, harmful incident, and that was really the driver that sort of pushed me to becoming a clinician myself. And so what happened is with my clinician at the time, the question that they asked me that I thought was really harmful is, they said you know what? And this was a non-Black clinician and the question that they asked is they said was your dad a typical Jamaican? My parents are Jamaican immigrants.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Right.

Speaker 3: 15:15

Yeah, I see the look on your face. I can't make this up, and my response in the moment it did feel like a bit of a throat punch moment. It did feel like a bit of a throat punch, but my response in the moment was if the question that you're asking me is my dad, a hardworking, committed father and husband who aims to provide for his family, then the answer is yes, my dad is a typical Jamaican and the clinician in that moment really caught themselves right, and they tried to, as Jamaicans will say, they tried to fix up in the moment. I walked out of that session thinking here we are in the clinical space and it is a place of immense vulnerability, right, and it's supposed to be a site of healing, but in the wrong hands, intentional or not, it can be a site of harm. And so I wondered how many other people if in a similar situation, people who look like us, if they would have the Warenthal to be able to respond in that particular way, and I assumed the number would likely be low, right, and at that point I said you want to know what?

Speaker 3: 16:22

I'm going to become a clinician to work with folks to reduce the likelihood of those folks experiencing harm when they come to a space in their most vulnerable states, and that was really the driver to bringing me to my clinical work. And the other part that I will say is because most of my professional life has really been focused around the macro, so to speak, systems pieces. That it was a skill set that I thought would blend really nicely with the clinical piece that is really focused on the micro. So I could bring in this upper level sort of systems analysis to also help people understand what it is that they're dealing with and what it is that they're facing, and the structural analysis to also support the mental health analysis and think as a practicing clinician. I'm unique that way and I find that it is helpful for my clients when I can bring in a structural analysis in a way that they might not have had themselves.

Speaker 2: 17:39

I am flabbergasted that you had insight into where it all responded to that comment about your guy in such a professional and mature manner. Isn't that interesting? And you still remember that story, so obviously it was tattooed in your soul, in your heart, in your mind.

Speaker 3: 17:59

Yeah, I will never forget that moment, never. I will never forget that moment, never.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Now, based again on your bio, you've dabbled in equity for many years. Please share some of the changes that you have observed over the years in this equity. Diversity, inclusion.

Speaker 3: 18:19

Yeah, yeah, I'm nowhere close to what I would call an OG in this work. I still consider myself a newbie, so to speak. But to answer the question around, some of the changes that I've seen from where I sit is there was a time, not too long ago, when we weren't using the language of EDI or DEI or EDIB or any of the acronyms that are more in the lexicon today. There was a time when we weren't using that language, and so we were really talking about community development and community engagement and the likes and such. We were using the language of belonging. We were using the language of social isolation right, but it was still working with folks who were experiencing disparate and disproportionate outcomes right, we're really focusing on particular groups of people, but we weren't using that language.

Speaker 3: 19:13

And so with the shift in language, I think also then changes the focus, right, it changes how we look at things, and so you began to see that then the language of the antis came in, so the anti-oppression, the anti-racism, and that really helped to provide a sort of razor sharp vision around what it is that we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 19:34

Right, it was better language, it was a better tool, I think, about equity, work, technology, and so it's forever evolving and becoming more effective and more efficient. And then it seemed as though the antis, the language was a little rough or abrasive for people. It was experienced that way. And then you started to see this segue into EDI, right, as though that language was a little bit more palatable, right, and so even EDI itself, the way it gets bantied around today. If it's one thing, right as far from understanding, and it was still like fringe work, so to speak. Of course, depending on your geography or your location, how much of that work was part of the lived reality of that space would be different. But then 2020 happened the murder of George Floyd and all of those high-profile executions of Black people that were on video and TV and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3: 20:46

And then it took off right, and it almost seemed as though I think they called it the racial awakening. And then everybody, and understandably and rightfully and I'm glad there's a lot of attention being brought to anti-Blackness. That was being brought to discrimination, transphobia, homophobia, the list goes on you really saw an increase in the understanding of the Black Lives Matter movement, and so a lot of opportunities, a lot of resources, a lot of attention. It was sort of a sweet spot, so to speak, if I can use that, in terms of the attention and the willingness to be able to address these concerns that have been longstanding for time. And so now what we're beginning to see is that the pendulum had swung far on one end and the pendulum is now swinging back right and that sort of overall openness to addressing equity and marginalization and discrimination. We're beginning to see a significant pushback to that, and so the work now is becoming increasingly more difficult because you're bumping up against a very active, very organized, very committed resistance to this social justice work, right.

Speaker 1: 22:07

I have to agree with you, Rohan, on that, starting with the phrase racial awakening. We see this happen. It's almost kind of like a manic-depressant kind of a thing where something horrible happens to a marginalized individual and when it happens, all of a sudden there's this racial awakening and so it goes flying off of the charts. Now you've got all these organizations helping and coming up with new, fresh ideas in order to allow DEI to make its strong foundation and get things moving, but then, as you just said, all of a sudden that pendulum spins back the other way and now you're getting all of this really fierce pushback and we can see that right now in the States how they are actually dismantled.

Speaker 1: 23:06

DEI for what?

Speaker 3: 23:08

it's worth. There's an attempt to do it.

Speaker 1: 23:11

Yes, for what it's worth. There's an attempt to do it, yes, and because of that, it makes us, as a Black people, and also those that are marginalized, really have to decide what steps need to be taken, moving forward in order to re-establish parts of ZEI that may have been damaged. Even though I am of the belief of an old oak tree, you may cut the tree down, but the roots are deep, so I agree with you on that, about the fact that I don't think it's all gone and they can't make it go away.

Speaker 3: 23:49

No, Sorry, if I could even just jump in yeah please go right ahead.

Speaker 3: 23:54

I think what I would just build on your answer there I'm thinking about this piece around deep roots, right?

Speaker 3: 24:02

I think we need not be overly overwhelmed around what is happening in the moment, in this resistance right In this moment. Because if we look historically, anytime, whatever social justice movement pick your social justice movement where there has been progress, there has been resistance right. So we've seen this before, we've experienced this before, and, as communities who are committed to social justice, for allies who are committed to social justice, for all folks who are committed to inclusion and equity, we've had to consistently respond to resistance and work through this. And so this is just another sort of moment in time, and so we don't have to be on our back or on our hind legs like what is happening. I think it's a time to gather, refocus and continue to do the work. It may look a little bit different, the language may evolve, the strategies and techniques that we use may change, but this work has been happening, and it's because there's an inherent I believe anyways there's an inherent feeling desire for all communities to experience liberation, and I don't know how anybody could ever put that in a box.

Speaker 2: 25:22

In terms of the pushback and resistance. I look at the slavery or enslavement experience. I look at the slavery or enslavement experience and if they couldn't stop the liberation there, after how many years of that? How it hurts, but we are much more prepared, much more educated. We're much more resolved, much more determined. I think they're wasting their energy. I really believe so, and I'm not saying that the work isn't getting harder.

Speaker 3: 25:55

They're not going to win this. Yeah, yeah, and so thank you for that. Andjugation, discrimination, and the list goes on and on and I have nothing. I have no reason to believe that our community, all other communities who are experiencing those things historically, will respond any differently than how they've responded historically. That's just what history has shown us.

Speaker 2: 26:37

And that's our reality. We don't go back on it. I think it was Tony Wurzel who said many months ago that if you have to keep someone at your knees to feel powerful, something's wrong, and that is philosophy. Someone must be at your knees for you to feel powerful in something radically wrong, and so I want to talk now about black brilliance.

Speaker 3: 27:04

Tell me what that means yeah, black brilliance, thank you for asking that. So in order to answer that question, I got another story, if that's okay with you guys, Black brilliance. So when I was in Waterloo Region for a long time I worked for City of Kitchener. I mentioned I worked for the region of Waterloo and so I was doing a lot of work in the community. Myself and a couple of other folks connected with some folks at the Waterloo Region District School Board. Folks connected with some folks at the Waterloo Region District School Board, and at the time there was an interest and a desire to put on some sort of forum or one-day event for Black students in the school board, in the public school board over there. And instead of a whole bunch of adults getting in the room and trying to plan an event for young people, we said, look, why don't we go out to the schools, to the high schools, and talk to these Black students and figure out what exactly it is that they'd want if we were to do a day together? And in short order we spoke to a number of young people from different schools and they were absolutely brilliant and in the conversations about what could this one day look like, ultimately they started talking about their experience as Black students in school, right, and they started talking about very eloquently and very in a matter of fact, like with razor sharp, analysis of what was happening to them in school and the impact of the anti-Black racism that was happening to them in school. And so we pushed pause for a second and deliberated what do we do with this information? Because we started out wanting to figure out what do you guys want to do for a special event and all of a sudden they started telling us their experiences of anti-Black racism in school and I think within the context of in Ontario and broader, the country we understand inside education, it has been a significant site of harm and anti-Blackness and anti-indigeneity historically, so this is not new, right. And so we then came back to the young people and asked them if they would be interested in being educators themselves and really using their knowledge and their lived experiences to inform the system of what is happening, the impact and what the system can and must do to create different outcomes for Black students.

Speaker 3: 29:28

We got a little bit of funding, we then got some cameras and microphones and that sorts of stuff, and the young people really took the lead. We did some training with them just so that they knew how to use the equipment, and they went off and created these amazing digital stories right, and those digital stories were then used for a day of professional development inside the Peel District School Board for the equity training that they were doing for their educators and administrators. So these young people went from being students to, in a way, being educators themselves. So they learned lots of really great stuff and in those conversations and the development of these digital stories they also answered some of the initial questions that we asked them about a day of bringing folks together, and so we were able to gather that information and work with the young people to develop a full day conference. Now it has absolutely taken off and ballooned and turned into something that I could never imagine.

Speaker 3: 30:28

Black Brilliance has been going for many years straight now in Waterloo region and it was we just we called it Black Brilliance. Part of it was because of the brilliance of the young people to be able to be so articulate and insightful into the experiences they were having. I hope that answers the question.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Yes, and it was also an amazing story. A little bit about education and policy development. So during your tenure at the Peel District School Board, what were some key policy changes or milestones you helped to implement to promote equity and anti-racism?

Speaker 3: 31:15

Yeah, great question, I appreciate that. One, yeah, so just a little bit of. So a couple of things that I'll mention. One was and there's some great people at Peel District School Board that I had a chance to work with absolutely brilliant folks, and anything that I speak about here it's not Rohan Thompson did it, it was really a group of folks that really collaborated on it. But two pieces out to that I'll mention is the development of our at the time.

Speaker 3: 31:42

I believe what we called it was our strategy to hire more Black and Indigenous educators, because what the data showed us a couple of things. One was we had a in terms of our student population at Peel District School Board. We had a high, like a very high, number of racialized folks at Peel District School Board. Right, the data also showed at the time that there it was almost an inverse number of educators in the system and what the literature also points to is Black and in particular, black and Indigenous students have better student outcomes, educational outcomes, when they have the opportunity throughout their educational career to have a Black or Indigenous educator. So that kind of that's what the data says and we have at Peel District School Board shout out to amazing school board trustee over there, kathy McDonald Kathy McDonald for the win every day, all day. And so Kathy had brought forward a motion that was approved and that was the creation of creating a strategy to hire more Black and Indigenous educators, and myself and my team got to collaborate with other folks inside the organization to develop that strategy and so we were able to do that and really proud of that, and the board has been working a way around increasing the complement of Black and Indigenous educators to help support having better student outcomes for Black and Indigenous students. So that was one piece.

Speaker 3: 33:11

The other piece, peel to School Board, was the subject you guys may or may not be aware of was subject to a ministry review. Right, and essentially the ministry review came about because of significant community concern and advocacy around the intensity and the prevalence of anti-Blackness in the school board that was being experienced by staff, students and families and caregivers. Right, and from that review there were 27 ministry directives that were identified. Right, one of the ministry directives was the development of a comprehensive anti-racism policy. So I was lucky enough that in my area we were responsible for facilitating the development of that policy. I didn't write the policy, I was responsible for facilitating the creation of it. Shout out to we got to work with a great elder in the community. Shout out to Dr Akwatu Kente. He is actually the architect and the writer of that policy.

Speaker 3: 34:14

But the process to develop that policy is we had a significant, robust community engagement and so we spoke to many different faith communities. We spoke to the diversity within the Black community, because there is no singular Black community. We spoke to a number, we spoke to a broad range of other racialized communities and so significant, robust community engagement. We got a lot of information, a lot of data, a lot of buy-in that ultimately led to the development of what I think, and I think other folks would consider this, to be the most robust anti-racism policy in education, likely in Ontario and probably the country. So really, those are probably the two sort of signature pieces that when I reflect upon in my time at Peel District School Board in terms of the things that would help to facilitate systemic change, those are probably the two pieces.

Speaker 2: 35:15

When we speak of international, we seek to inspire and educate, and that is exactly what's happening today with Mr Van Bromson, who is our guest, and he's telling us about his experiences and his story. Now I want you to tell us three things that you like about Rohan Thompson. It's a trick question.

Speaker 3: 35:43

Yeah, yeah, that's a tough question. Can I say next question please? I'm kidding, I'm kidding Rita, I'll stay with this Tough question. I'll be honest, I typically don't think about this one.

Speaker 3: 35:55

I think that one of the things I like about myself is I think I'm a relatively reasonable person. I can be pretty strong in my own opinions, but I think I'm flexible enough to try to meet folks where they're at and look for compromise. And I'm sure there are people in my life who might think differently. But I think I'm flexible enough to try to meet folks where they're at and look for compromise. And I'm sure there are people in my life who might think differently. But I think I'm a relatively reasonable person. I think because of a lot of my experiences, I think I'm pretty resilient.

Speaker 3: 36:23

I think my fortitude sort of score is high right and in that if something is put in front of me, I really don't believe that I can't get it done. Whatever the it is probably to a fault. And lastly, I try not to take myself too serious, like when it's time to be serious and it's game time, so to speak, then you know my game face is on and that's just what it is. But when it's not that I like to play and laugh and have lots of humor and joke, and it's because this work it's a lot of emotional labor, right, it's pretty intense, and so those moments of joy and laughter, sort of relaxation, are super important and so I try to factor that into just to me and who I am and all things that I do. So those are probably the things that I like about myself the most. But I got to be honest, that's one of the tougher questions anybody has asked me of recent memory.

Speaker 1: 37:17

Leave it to Rita to come up with a bamboozle question. That you answered flawlessly and we do appreciate your transparency. We definitely do appreciate it. Yeah, thanks Rita. No, okay, I guess my next question, I guess, is more or less the same, but I want to know that I remember you saying something about playing football. You were a football coach right For 13 years or so give or take.

Speaker 3: 37:50

Yeah, like I coached for a pretty long time there, and prior to that I grew up playing football as well.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Yeah, Okay, so then, how do you see sports to be used as a tool for mentorship and youth development, particularly with those that are in unrepresented communities?

Speaker 3: 38:13

Yeah, great question. I think sport is really important and it's a great opportunity for development in young folks, and so what I'll say for myself, what I experienced through sport was I was able to have success, and in having success it helped to build my self-esteem. And I think that was really important because, with having some success at something and building my self-esteem, it helped me to think as though I could be successful in many other things not sport related, and I don't know if I would have had that if sport wasn't part of my life. The other thing that sport brought for me, or I learned through sport, was accountability, and so I kind of one thing about football. The team is so big, you have a big coaching staff. You have eight, 70, 80, 90 players. You have a whole sort of athletic therapy staff. There's a whole infrastructure behind it and everybody has a role to play. Everybody's job is equally as important, whether you're getting headlines or you're behind the scenes and nobody knows your name. And so what that did for me is really taught me to understand the value of my role, regardless of whether there was notoriety and headlines or not. I had a role and I was accountable, that what I did impacted everybody else, and the last thing I would say that football did for me, and I think sport in general can do for other people is teaching them how to be resilient, right.

Speaker 3: 39:43

I had a coach, lots of really great coaches, one coach in particular.

Speaker 3: 39:49

He used to say give me your best effort, right, give me your best sort of mental focus and we'll live with the results.

Speaker 3: 39:59

And so what that sort of taught us and taught me was goals and everything are really important, and I would never say that goals aren't important, but it's what's more important. But it's what's more important. What I learned from sport is is to be committed to, to be committed to your craft and to always come forward with the maximum effort, to come forward with your best effort, and the likelihood is you're going to have more success than not. It's not guaranteed, but you will likely have more success than not. And so the goal or winning becomes irrelevant. The other person or the other team becomes irrelevant, and really the focus is you. You know, can you stay dialed in, can you come to work every day and give your best effort? Can you learn from your own mistakes, can you hold yourself accountable, and all those sorts of sort of growth pieces was really what I took from sport and I think can have a similar impact and does have a similar impact, on just about anybody who is associated to sports let me divulge a little embarrassing secret with me and for please.

Speaker 2: 41:09

I used to go to some games. I never understood that I would always take a book and sit there. Understand, I did not. I still do not understand here.

Speaker 3: 41:23

Can I tap, tap onto that story there a little bit. When? So, when I was a young person and I first started playing my my mother wasn't keen on me playing. She thought I was going to get hurt and all that kind of stuff, right. And so my mom and my grandmother came to a lot of my games and I don't think they, as Jamaicans, they understood soccer, they understood cricket.

Speaker 3: 41:39

Coming to Canada, they fell in love with baseball, but Canadian football or American football really not their thing. Anyways, as the years went on, they started to understand things a little bit more. To the point, when I got to university they would come to the games and the game would be over and everybody's looking for their family and friends who came to the game and everything like that. And my mother and my grandmother would now be coming out of the stands and instead of greeting me with a hug or saying good job or anything like that, they're coming out of the stands with critique on how I played and how the team played and questioning particular decisions. The point I'm trying to make is if you stick with it long enough, you do get to understand.

Speaker 1: 42:23

I have to say that must have been a trying time in life. After you've been punched and beat up and knocked down and sore, and now here comes mom and grandma and instead of them saying, oh you did such a good job today, baby, no, they're going to come back and tell you you didn't catch that pass. This game could have been over 20 minutes ago if you had just caught that one ball.

Speaker 3: 42:48

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 42:50

But they did it with love.

Speaker 3: 42:51

That was all good.

Speaker 1: 42:53

I was going to end this at my little intro, my little end thing, by saying we got to love them. What else can we do? When you look at all of the things that you've done so far in your line of employment, what is the most important thing? That when you look back which I know they say never look back, but in this case, when you look back, out of all of it, what do you see as the most important thing, that crown jewel that you would hold to be the most proudest moment in your life, outside of this and this is outside of your family.

Speaker 3: 43:40

Yeah, yeah, great question. At this point I don't know if I could look back and say there's like a signature piece. That is the thing that I'm most proud of. I think there's a number of them, but and I've been lucky I've been so lucky and so blessed that I've had people who believed in me right. I had people who not only believed in me but they also sponsored me right. They vouched for me and because of that, they then gave me, they provided opportunities or provided pathways to opportunities that allowed me to do some pretty good stuff up until this point.

Speaker 3: 44:22

So there's a degree of luck that I've had. I want to acknowledge that. But, coming back to one of the earlier questions that you asked, if we're all to come to an end today, the thing that I'd likely look back on and be most proud of is if, throughout the journey, anybody that I've impacted, that I've come across, had an experience that said, hey, you want to know what Rohan really helped to change me for the better Rohan really impacted me for the better. Whatever that better may be, because that's how this whole thing started right Is just really wanting to pay it forward and help set somebody on a trajectory that some really important folks helped to set me on a trajectory, and so, when it's all said and done, if there was one person, or two people or whatever, who had a comment like that about me, then mission accomplished, mission accomplished.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Amazing. Bring it forward so important, isn't it? Now let's suppose, rohan and Katsi, that you had an opportunity to address a graduating class of social workers. What three gems would you want to leave with them?

Speaker 3: 45:41

Hey, rita and Elton, you guys are winning on the questions today. I think three things that I want to leave with the graduating class of social workers. One is and this isn't a new sort of idea or notion that sort of is within the school of social work is really focus on not doing harm. I think that's such an important sort of principle there and it can happen so easily because folks are most, they're in their most vulnerable state, right. So I really think we are as clinicians, as helpers, when people invite us into their journey, we really have to take that with a lot of gratitude and really focus one on not doing any harm. So that's number one.

Speaker 3: 46:23

Number two that I would say is for people to really understand, for other social workers to understand, that just about everybody when they wake up in the morning, you know they're doing the best that they can with what it is that they have, with all of the resources that they have, that the information it is that they have.

Speaker 3: 46:43

Most people, the vast majority of people, are doing the best they can with the resources that they have and let's really honor that, really challenge our biases or anything along those lines that may show up in your practice as a helper right. And number three is that people are not broken, right. Most people, lots of people, are going through challenges, but they are not broken. And if most people, if they're supported properly, if they're given the right amount of resources, if there's an adequate or a proper amount of belief in that person, they will likely do really good things and have better outcomes for themselves. And I think it's really important. If we understand that, then you have a very particular posture how you approach working with people, because you know all they need is the right level of support and they can get to the place and they will get to the place that they want to get to. They just need to be supported properly. So those are probably the three things that I would leave with a graduating class.

Speaker 1: 47:53

And let them be graduated. I may say so myself. One of the things that I want to take away from everything that you said and I think you've used this phrase more than once said, and I think you've used this phrase more than once and that is do no harm, regardless of whatever it is that you're doing, even if you are hoping that you just know that this is going to help an individual or an organization, but to always remember to not to do any harm. Always remember not to do any harm. I want to thank you so much, rohan, for giving us the time this afternoon to have a conversation with you. It has been long in the running, but I will say it has definitely been worth the wait.

Speaker 1: 48:45

I really want to say that, and we covered a lot of things. We covered starting with your own personal journey and how it began, and I think that we also talked about the therapeutic and community work that you are involved with, along with education and policy development, and how you look at, how you compartmentalize a lot of those pieces in order to make sure that all of what's required is done, and I think most people would be very appreciative of that. So I want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. And, rita, do you have anything you want to add to that?

Speaker 2: 49:32

Yes, I say a hearty esti Buenas gracias. Thank you to you for blessing us with your presence, but, more important than that is for pouring into us and to our listeners. You certainly will leave our platform richer than it was before you joined us, so thank you.

Speaker 3: 49:57

Elton Rita, it was a pleasure. I'm honored, elton. Thank you for continuing to reach out. I know this is probably a couple feels months in the making, maybe a couple of years in the making, but yeah, I had a pleasure. This was a lot of fun. I hope at least one person gets a little something out of this, and I do appreciate both of you for your thoughtfulness and handling me properly in this conversation and for you both to ensure that you did no harm to me. So thank you.

Speaker 1: 50:26

That's the most important thing. Thank you for listening to Speak Up International. If you wish to contact Mr Rohan Thompson, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Mr Thompson at linkedincom. Mr Thompson has other social media accounts you can use to connect to him that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. Your voice has the power to inspire, influence and ignite change. We'd love to hear your story. We invite you to connect to us by sending your message that includes your name, company or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Crush your next interview and do it with confidence. Speak Up International's expert training will have you shining in the spotlight. Email us at info at speakuppodcastca to claim your 10% discount on our exclusive podcast interviewee training program. You can also reach us using Facebook, instagram, twitter, blue Sky and LinkedIn To connect to our podcast. Use Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up International. You can find our podcast using our web address wwwspeakuppodcastca. Our logo has the woman with her finger pointing up, mouth open, speaking up.

Speaker 1: 52:30

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