[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! Today we have Charlene Thomas who is reading from her book that was just released on November 5th, Streetlight People. Charlene, the floor is yours! 

[00:00:31] Charlene Thomas: Kady, Sunday, October 25th, 55 days before the ball. Someone's following me.

I don't turn around, but I feel them there watching, stepping when I do and breathing the same crisp air from the corner of my eye. I see a shadow slam with mine stretched extra tall under the morning sun. A car taps its horn and I veer from the middle of the road to the right side. The way we've been trained in the neighborhoods with no sidewalks.

The car is an old Volvo, and the driver waves as she passes. I don't actually know her, but the streetlight is small. She wouldn't just drive off if some guy behind me had an axe. I don't think. I walk a little faster. The shopping bag on my shoulder starts to sound like a pony trotting, stuffed with all this empty Tupperware that Olin stole from mom.

I wish I'd seen it I wish I'd been at his apartment picking up something sharper, like knives. Knives? The shadow seems to speed up to steps landing a half second later than mine every time. Owen has me by 60 pounds, but if I get a kick in behind his knees, I can still bring him down. I'll do it with this perf too.

Easy. My skin gets hot. I reached the busy cross street where there's a stop sign for people going north and south, but not the ones going east and west. I have to wait for a break in the traffic, but the shadow keeps coming over my head. Birds sing, flitting from one tree to the next. The branches shake and the leaves fall to the ground in a blinding gust of oranges and yellows and reds.

I wonder if anything else looks prettiest just before it dies. 

[00:02:12] Rita Burke: That is a wonderful it. Remarkable, no question about that. Charlene Thomas is our guest today! Let me tell you a little bit about Charlene, who is currently in the D. C. area. She is an American author who writes young adult fiction.

Currently, she has two books and another to be released later this year. Charlene was 16 when she wrote a manuscript that won the National Novel Silver Award from Scholastic Books. She studied creative writing and also has an MBA. Charlene calls herself a big dreamer who believes in people and what they are capable of doing.

But as we say on SpeakUP! International, we prefer if our guests tell their stories. And so Charlene has an opportunity to tell us more about Charlene as we go through this conversation. Welcome to SpeakUP! International, Charlene Thomas!

[00:03:28] Charlene Thomas: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here! 

[00:03:31] Ellington Brown: Even though the weather is cold outside, it's warm here in this electronic room. Charlene, can you share more about your journey as a writer, and what inspired you to pursue writing? 

[00:03:49] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I honestly have been writing books since before I even realized I was writing books. So I, when I was like six, seven years old, was writing away in spiral notebooks and those little composition notebooks.

And it was just where I put All these ideas and characters and stories that were coming to my mind, and I never thought it could really be anything more than that. It was just how I enjoyed spending my time. And, um, as I got older, I slowly started sharing with friends and stuff that. I think I write books and they would sort of be like, wait, when you're always with us, what do you mean?

Like, when do you have time to write books? What are you talking about? And they all thought it was really cool, which I was really fortunate to have. Cause I think, especially at that age, I'm talking like middle school timeframe. I think what your friends think, um, affects a lot of what you decide you should and shouldn't be doing.

So I was fortunate to be in a situation where. everybody thought it was cool that I wrote books and I definitely think that that helped continue to motivate me. And then, you know, Rita mentioned it in sort of the short overview about me when I was in high school. I ended up just on a whim applying for this award through scholastic books for the best are in writing, uh, by high schoolers across the nation.

And so I submitted to that I had to have a teacher sponsor to kind of support your bid for that award. So my journalism teacher who also did not know I wrote books. So she was like, wait, what? But of course I'll sponsor you. So she, um, ended up sponsoring me and we submitted and I kind of forgot about it.

When about my life for a few months. And I remember I got a call one day, I was driving and I got a call from my journalism teacher and she was freaking out and she was like, Scholastic just called me and they said, you just won this award and that you're going to New York to get it! It's going to be at Carnegie Hall!

Like she was so excited. And I just remember in that moment, that was the first real time that it sort of hit me. Maybe I'm kind of good at this. You know, maybe it's not just the people who know me and who like me who say that. my writing is good. Maybe impartial audiences will also like what I have to say.

And I think that was the true motivator for me to really consider this as a true, um, career opportunity for me. 

[00:06:34] Rita Burke: What an incredible story! So beautiful . Charlene Thomas, I guess you can call yourself a born writer, right? 

[00:06:44] Charlene Thomas: Yes, I think that fits. Yes, I would agree with that. 

[00:06:49] Rita Burke: Wonderful. Now, there's an intriguing quotation on your website. It says, anything is possible, your dreams and mine. I want you to expand on that thought for us, please. 

[00:07:04] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, of course. Um, I am a self proclaimed dreamer. I think that as we sort of get older, there can be a lot of pressure to stop dreaming. I think that society Can really make you feel as if it's childish to dream or it's time to sort of, you know, be a big girl and get out there and get a real job and, you know, focus on real things.

And I don't, subscribe to that. I know that my life wouldn't look the way that it does right now if I did not believe in lofty dreams that a lot of times I was a little bit scared to say out loud, but I know that if I can do it, other people can do it and that we sort of have this one really short in the scheme of things life to live and I think so many of us feel like we are bigger and our purpose is more powerful than what we're allowing ourselves to do and say and be every day.

And so I've always been that person. And I, I think maybe part of my purpose is to be that person for people when They come to me and they say they want to try something that might sound crazy to everybody else. I'm like, no, tell me more. Like, that's incredible. I love when people are passionate about things.

I love when people want to try to do things that maybe society says that they shouldn't. And so when I talk about dreams, that's sort of what I mean.

[00:09:00] Ellington Brown: So what drew you to focus on young adult fiction as your primary genre?

[00:09:09] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so as I said, I was writing books when I was six, so I sort of, my characters grew with me when I was six, I was writing about elementary schoolers. And then when I was in middle school, I was writing about middle schoolers. And then when I got to high school, I started writing about high schoolers.

And publishing since I'm a traditionally published author, um, they have very specific age categories for things and, um, young adult is kind of. as high as you sort of go until you switch into the adult category. And so there's this space that people refer to as new adult that a lot of authors want to write for.

And then a lot of readers say they want to read it, but publishing hasn't really bought on yet. So it's hard to get sort of that new adult type of work published that sort of usually when your characters are call it like 18 and maybe like 24 ish, like that realm. And so Because at that point in my life, I had already started taking writing a little bit more seriously as a career, I sort of got to a point where my characters couldn't keep aging up with me because publishing probably wouldn't buy those books.

So I sort of leveled out at young adult and stayed in that space for a little while. Um, but I do hope to get into adult books as well in the near ish future. Give me like a couple of years, but I would love to start pitching, um, for some adult projects as well. I've been fortunate that Young Adult has kept me busy so far, so I haven't had a ton of time yet to get those adult ideas out there, but they're in me and they will get out there sooner than later.

[00:11:02] Rita Burke: But there's a huge market as well for young adults. 

[00:11:06] Charlene Thomas: Absolutely!

[00:11:06] Rita Burke: And I think particularly for males, very often what I will hear, because I'm into the book business as well, is that there are not enough books out there for boys. So there's a market for that. 

[00:11:19] Charlene Thomas: Absolutely! Completely agree with you! 

[00:11:22] Rita Burke: So tell us now, you've got two books that are published and one coming.

Yes. Do you have a favorite? And if so, which one is it? 

[00:11:34] Charlene Thomas: I feel like that's like picking a favorite child. You're like, I feel like I need to cover my book's ears if they don't hear this answer. Um, I don't have a favorite. But I am proud of each of them for different reasons. Seton Girls was my debut, and that book for me was like a love letter to my high school experience, my high school girlfriends, and it was really sort of a testament to girls, being good to each other and choosing each other and not getting so lost and caught up and sort of all the other noise.

Um, and I love that message. And I think that's so powerful. And I think that there's very few things that can warm your heart like a true diehard group of girlfriends that just love each other and are there for each other and platonic love stories will always have a place in my heart. So I love that Seton Girls does that in a very, I think, atypical way a lot of times in young adult, especially I think oftentimes in young adult, there's usually some sort of romance happening somewhere and Seton Girls really isn't about that.

It really is about these platonic love stories. So I love that about that story. Um, and it's very much a testament to sort of the relationships I was very blessed to have with my high school friends that I've carried on throughout my adult life. So I love that story for that reason. Streetlight People I love because it is by far, I think the hardest thing I've ever written to date.

Um, it is, it executes what I always love in storytelling, which is the type of twist that was right in front of your eyes the time, but you still didn't see it until you saw it. And I love stuff like that I'd never written anything like that, but I wanted to. And so I'm really proud of myself for doing that with this book.

And then my next book is my first time writing a love story for young adult or publishing a love story for young adult. And, um, It has very heavy themes of grief and healing and what I love about that story is that I really think and I really hope that it gives, especially teens, a space to start to try and process. loss, you know, there are kids out there who are hurting and who are grieving and he's feeling like I had my first massive experience with grief a couple of years ago. And like, I'm an adult and it was world changing for me. And I just started thinking like, there are teenagers. There are teens out there that are dealing with this at 16, 15 and how, and I wanted to kind of create a story that they could at least open the pages and hopefully feel safe and seen within that space.

Um, so that's what I, I really love about the story that's gonna be coming out in May, is that, I hope I was able to do that a little bit.

[00:14:59] Ellington Brown: So how did your time at North Carolina State University, where you minored in creative writing? How did that time influence your writing style and career path?

[00:15:13] Charlene Thomas: Yeah. Um, so if we rewind time back to when I said that I had won that Scholastic Award, I'm On a high, I'm like, I can write, look at me. I'm like, like, here we go. I, um, decided I wanted to get a literary agent at that point. So I started reaching out to literary agents and got one ridiculously quickly, like inappropriately quickly.

It should take months, if not years. And I think for me, it happened in like a couple of weeks. And so I got this literary agent. I was so excited. I just knew it was all happening for me and I ended up signing with an agent who was basically unethical in the industry. They call them "Sagents", but sort of the agents that are not the types of agents that you would want managing your career and I didn't know any better.

I was like, 18 years old and it was just overall. a really damaging experience for me emotionally and was truly my first big blow, like setback in publishing. Um, and I left that relationship scared of publishing. I was like, if this is publishing, I don't want it. Like, this is not for me. And I was so fortunate to be in college at that point and to be in the sort of creative writing classes at that point, because I don't know how much I would have continued to write if I wasn't being graded on it, to be honest with you.

And so it became this forcing mechanism for me to continue to write anyways. And it was my first time writing amongst peers and sharing work with peers. And Um, and really understanding things like the workshop model, um, and really understanding and learning how to give feedback. I think that part of my responsibility as an author is to not only create stories, but to also understand and respect how to consume a story and how to sort of contribute to my peers in that way as, you know, helping with their own growth, critique, feedback, things like that.

And those are things I don't think I ever would have learned because I was always a very solitary writer. I didn't realize that writing also was, me as a writer also was being part of a broader sort of community, that it was responsible for me to be a respectful member of. And so that was definitely, I think, what taking creative writing classes and having that experience on an educational level contributed to me that I don't think I would have gotten otherwise.

[00:18:05] Rita Burke: Well, there's so much you're telling us. It's obvious that you've been writing all of your life, so to speak. 

[00:18:14] Charlene Thomas: Yes. 

[00:18:15] Rita Burke: So, what kind of advice, tips, guidelines would you give to an aspiring author? Let's say it's a 15 year old boy who wants to write. What would you say to him? 

[00:18:32] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I'm actually a mentor, a writing mentor, and I also have a, um, writing coaching business where I work with writers like that, not teens, adults, but still.

Um, and one of the things I find myself saying a lot is that if you want to be a writer, I think a lot of times writing can be so hard that it's scary. You're just look you're just looking at this document. You have no idea where it's going. You're convinced it's terrible. You don't want to keep going, but as long as you're writing, you're a writer and you're never going to get better unless you keep going.

And so one of the things I work really hard to get people comfortable with is the reality that first drafts are always bad. They're meant to be bad. And a lot of times people call them a zero draft because they're that bad. It's like not even your first draft, but it's the zero draft where you're just getting your ideas down and you're figuring this out.

You're creating something from nothing. And that's so cool and that's so powerful. Like this thing that's going to exist never would have been if it wasn't for you and only you are capable of doing that of telling the story the way that is meant to be told and so the biggest thing I try to just sort of encourage people to do is just write, even if it's bad, even if it's a couple 100 words a day, do it.

And if you do it intentionally. You will get better. The other big thing is I do think that as writers, we are responsible for reading. So you've got to read. You got to read a lot. You got to like to read. It's tough to be a writer if you don't like to read and you've got to respect and learn from the craft of others. figure out what you do like about the stories that you like. Don't just like a story, really think about, well what made me like that story? Think about the stories you don't like and be able to say what it was. It wasn't just this overarching, I didn't like this book, like get critical about it. It's like, you know what, I didn't really like how this resolved itself or I didn't really like how these characters talked to themselves or I didn't really like how, you know, it was almost all dialogue and.

no real narration or whatever it is, figure out what it was you don't like so that you can try to do it differently. Um, but yeah, those would be some of my quick tips for people who want to be writers. You already are. Just keep writing. 

[00:21:19] Ellington Brown: Okay. So, uh, you as the, we're going to jokingly call you the professor of writing.

[00:21:26] Charlene Thomas: Okay. 

[00:21:27] Ellington Brown: You have your MBA from Emory University. 

[00:21:31] Charlene Thomas: Yes! 

[00:21:32] Ellington Brown: And you also have your certificate in teaching creative writing. 

[00:21:36] Charlene Thomas: Yes. 

[00:21:38] Ellington Brown: So now with these tools at hand, how confident are you in moving around in this space? 

[00:21:47] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, I, um, so I mentioned it real quick, but I do have a writing coaching business. It's called Story Coaching and Editorial, which was really, really, I think marries my MBA with my, um, Certificate in Teaching Creative Writing.

And gave me a chance to really validate, I think, my capability of helping other writers. It's important to me that I am worthy of being there for other writers in the way that I want to be and even though I have the real world experience of writing books and mentorship, I would also not discredit the experience of a classroom and the impact and the sort of credibility that that can contribute to me as well.

And so it was important to me if I was really serious, About helping writers professionally that I was not only contributing my actualized experience as a writer, but also my educational experience from what I've learned from people who know more than me and people who are farther along in their careers than I am.

And that can help me to be a better business person and a better teacher and a better writer myself. Um, and so. I think I always tell people when you look at my resume, it's confusing. But if you give me a minute to explain it, it's all going to make sense. And so I think, um, that is my that's my general explanation.

I tend to give whenever all my varying degrees come up. 

[00:23:45] Rita Burke: A few things we're talking today. to Charlene Thomas on SpeakUP! International and she's an author, she's released already two books and one is going to be published very soon. Something that you said that has left a mark on me already, several marks I must say, that if you want to write and if you want to become an effective writer, you need to read.

Who did you read? Who did you read? 

[00:24:16] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, that's a great question. I, I'm one of those people that reads all over the place. So when I was growing up, um, I was fortunate to have a household that read to me a lot. Um, and I always witnessed, especially my dad reading a lot. So reading was ingrained in me as like a pastime as, as sort of what you do.

We would go to borders back when borders existed. every weekend and get me a new book. I could always get a new book if I want a new book, no questions asked. So, um, I grew up reading, I loved Shel Silverstein a lot, even though I don't really do a bunch of poetry, I loved Shel Silverstein. I just thought it was prolific.

Um, I, my favorite author of all time is Maya Angelou. I think that Yeah, she's you the way that you can just hear her talking to you in her words and the way they just wrap you up and hug you it just it's remarkable and I she's just so powerful and I absolutely Love her. Um, but yeah, I mean, I grew up reading books.

Anything I, I remember for a really long time I was reading the Mary Kate Nash series in elementary school. I don't know if you know those books, but it was like they had a whole franchise, like the Adventurous of Mary Kate Nash and there were like 50 books and I read so many of those growing up.

Probably every single one. Um. And I think for, I think for kids, especially coming up, it's important to have so many different types of stories that they can dive into and to not be like judgy about the types of stories they're reading. Just let them read, you know, just let them form a love for writing because it will diversify.

They will, if they start to learn to love to read it. They will diversify their taste and eventually get into things that you might consider to be a little bit more scholastically challenging or whatever it may be. Um, and that's exactly what happened to me. I loved The Giver, incredible book. Um, I read, I really enjoyed To Kill a Mockingbird growing up.

Um, and now I read everything. I read so much. I don't read fantasy. Fantasy's a little tough for me to wrap my head around everything that's going on. But I, I, you know, if it's, if it sounds like the type of thing that's going to change me somehow, I usually want to read it. So yeah. 

[00:27:04] Ellington Brown: Wow. I wonder, uh, if you're, if you're holding the Library of Washington in that head, it sounds like you've read so much till if we had a can opener and open the top of your head, probably books would be spewing everywhere.

But again, that's another story. As a trained marketer, and you have experience in major brands, how have you leveraged your marketing skills in your writing a career? I know a lot of people in our audience, they're into writing books. 

[00:27:48] Charlene Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:27:49] Ellington Brown: Figuring out how they're going to promote their books. So giving us an overview, high level overview, of course, of how you do it would definitely be beneficial to our audience.

Yeah, you know, I will say, I actually think that my experience as a marketer, um, has helped me almost more with my writing than it has with promoting books, and I'll tell you why. I think that one thing that newer writers, newer authors can struggle with is the revelation that publishing It's a business and it's so emotional when you're writing a story and it seems like such a, you know, beautiful lifestyle and I feel like all the books in the movies you read romanticize being an author and what it's like.

But at the end of the day, publishing is a business and they're looking for very specific things in stories. And oftentimes it can feel formulaic. It can feel discouraging. You can feel like I have this amazing idea. I know it's going to be great. And publishing is like, I don't think anybody's going to want to read that.

So sorry. No. And coming from corporate big brand marketing. I'm very used to business decisions like that. And I'm very used to having to sort of turn off that emotional side of you. That's like, but wait, I know this could be amazing in favor of people who are looking at a P and L and looking at the bottom line and saying, Oh, this won't make me enough money.

Sorry. No. And I think that really helped me with my resilience in this industry and my ability to not take things so personally. and understand that it really a lot of times isn't about you and it really a lot of times isn't about the fact that it's not a good book or it's not well written. It's because It's a business.

And at the end of the day, they want to make as much money as they can. So I do think that just my corporate training and background has helped that be a much easier pill to swallow than it can be for, um, some other people. And then I think, you know, when it comes to marketing your books, I'm speaking from a traditional publishing perspective.

So for people listening who are less familiar, traditional publishing is basically. You have a literary agent, your literary agent pitches your book to publishing houses, and the publishing house then sort of takes over marketing, positioning, and all of those things. As a traditionally published author, I think another big thing to sort of accept is that there's really only so much you can do to help your book sell.

You should love your book, you should talk about your book whenever you can. I think it's great to figure out what you like, In terms of marketing your book. So for me. I don't really love doing like writing up a bunch of guest articles and things like that. I sort of feel like I wrote a whole book. I don't feel like writing anything else, but I do.

I can talk all day. I can interview. I You know, again, because of my marketing background, like I have media training, I'm, I I'm comfortable in those sorts of environments. So I am always willing to do a panel and interview a podcast, sign up for all that kind of stuff. I don't love. writing more about my book.

I think recognizing what you like to do can make it feel less like work because at the end of the day, it's very, very, very, very rare that anything you do is going to impact your sales. That much, and especially not more than what your publishing house can do for you. So instead of just being a hamster on a wheel and spinning and spinning and spinning and burning yourself out, figure out what aspects of the marketing process you do enjoy.

Jump with both feet into those because you have fun with it. And if there's upside that comes from it, then that's also amazing. 

[00:32:24] Rita Burke: You are so on point. Three things. Publishing is the business and the bottom line is what's important. And you're quite correct. It's not about you. It's not about your story.

That may not be good. It's what they can make the most money from secondly. Maya Angelou, The Heart of a Woman, The Heart of a Woman, it's got to be one of the best written books ever. And To Kill a Mockingbird, I still think I have one on my shelf. I loved and loved and loved that book. So talk to us then about the best piece of advice you've ever, ever been given, you've ever received .

[00:33:11] Charlene Thomas: Ooh, let me think. Um, that's hard. I, I don't know if I can necessarily point to the single best piece of advice, but one piece of advice that I did get, uh, my dad gave to me and I was really, really, really, really upset about something. And he said to me in that moment, he said, Charlene, I can promise you that everything is going to be okay.

Because I am realizing in this moment that I have felt exactly the way that you feel right now before and everything turned out okay. And it was so reassuring to me, I think, because you don't realize in the moment when things are hard that you're trending towards being okay. It feels like I'm stuck in this.

I'm never going to get out of this life. Doesn't look the way that I want it to. And the reality is, is that. Every time you feel like that, you can probably look back to another time when it felt like that and you just sort of realize now all of a sudden, wait, things did get better. I think sort of those gradual changes, we don't notice them necessarily as much as we should or as much as we can.

That's human nature, but just sort of the reality that It's going to be okay. It might not look the way that you thought it would, but you're not the only person who's felt this way. You're not the only person who will feel this way and you're not the only person who's ever going to feel this way again.

But if you kind of keep putting one foot in front of the other, and sometimes it's. You're sort of trudging along and sometimes you're leaping along, but if you just keep going along, eventually, it's going to look okay again. So, yeah, I think, and there's a lot of people out there right now who are kind of struggling and the world is a crazy place right now.

So hopefully they know that they can. Get to okay again. Um, you just gotta keep going.

[00:35:50] Ellington Brown: Can you walk us through the journey of publishing your debut novel, which was the Seton Girls 

[00:35:58] Charlene Thomas: Seton Girls yeah. 

[00:35:59] Ellington Brown: And then and what was the process like? 

[00:36:05] Charlene Thomas: For sure. Um, so I had known that I wanted to go the traditional publishing track forever. So I, um, knew that that required me getting an agent. Um, as I mentioned earlier, when I was in college, I had a really bad experience with an agent.

So the next time I went out for agents, I was really intentional about it. I was really looking for agents. who had done things like interviews, who had written articles just to try and get a taste for who that person was before I, you know, potentially would end up working with them. It can be a a weird relationship because all of a sudden this person is kind of managing your career, but you've also never met them.

And so I decided I wanted to do what I could to understand who they were from the information that existed about them, um, already. So I was really intentional. I did small batch querying. So maybe like, I think I maybe Query like 10 agents or something. It was tiny and I am tiny in the sense that people can query 50 100 200 agents sometimes.

But I was very tight about it again because I was looking for a very specific type of connection. And so. I was querying in 2020, uh, when a one or two other things was going on in the world. And I ended up landing my agent, uh, about six months into the process of me querying. And it was really special the way that it happened.

Usually you sign with an agent based off of an entire manuscript. Especially if you're a debut and for me, I had submitted my book, it had been written and she basically wrote me back what I realized now was the equivalent of like an edit letter, which is very time intensive and difficult and you usually don't get that type of feedback.

Unless you are officially working with somebody and she basically wrote me back an edit letter. Um, that pretty much said, I'm obsessed with this book. I think it's incredible. Like, I don't know you, but I think you're incredible. This is amazing. But if I were to try to sell it, there are things that I wouldn't want us to talk about and probably want to try to change.

And I know this because you're a baby. So if you're Not into it. I respect it. And if you are, I would love to chat. Like, do you want to have a call? So of course I was like, Oh, I'll take a call. Like you don't not take a call with an agent. So I got on the phone with her. We ended up talking for like over an hour and it just felt so right.

And I'm the type of person where I feel like a book is kind of always a work in progress. So funnily enough, I had already been playing around with like a new introduction to the book versus the version that she had. So I was like, well, I can send you that if you want to see it. And she was like, Oh, I'd love to see it.

So I sent that to her and I heard back from her a couple of weeks later. And she was like, I want to work with you. I know this book's going to be amazing. I don't care that it's not written. Like, If you wanna work with me, like, let's do it. And that was honestly what I feel like I had been manifesting and like praying for forever.

Like that was what I wanted in an agent, was somebody who understood what I do and wasn't necessarily so attached to my, the actual physical story that was in front of them, but was attached to sort of how I tell a story. So, signed with her, finished writing the book in a couple of months. We went out to editors the beginning of 2021.

Our submission process was really fast. We had an offer after about three months from one of the big five. And I was sure that we would take that offer, but my agent was like, well, let's see what other people want to do. Like, we can't just take the first thing we have to give everybody a chance to respond.

So she, uh, notified everybody that we had an offer. We ended up getting a second offer, which is the one we actually ended up taking. Uh, it was another big five offer. That one was from Penguin Random House. Um, and I landed with my amazing editor there. He's. profound, and he really helped turn Seton Girls into what it is right now.

So yeah, that and it might, it might, once my publishing experience was moving along, it went pretty fast. Usually, you know, you can sign with an editor and the book might come out, might not come out for another two to three years. But I signed In 2021 and my book came out in 2022, so it was very quick. Um, but yeah, and here we are chatting with you guys! So, 

[00:41:07] Rita Burke: And here we are sounding like a pro and is a pro at writing and editing and marketing. This sounds really, really exciting. 

[00:41:19] Charlene Thomas: Thank you. 

[00:41:19] Rita Burke: Very, very exciting. So, I know you like writing, it's coming out, your passion has come out, no question about it. What else brings, brings you joy then? 

[00:41:29] Charlene Thomas: Yeah. Honestly, people bring me joy.

I care a lot about people, nothing is better to me than being around your people. You know, that just that feeling of like, this is where I belong, this is where I should be. This is where I'm needed and they're where they needed. So I don't know if that's cliche or overgeneralized, but people bring me joy.

Love brings me joy. I think that love is the most powerful, ridiculously miraculous feeling that any of us will ever be so blessed to feel. And. Like loving somebody else is a miracle. Having people in your love isn't having people in your life who you love is a miracle. And that brings me joy. I think especially in times like these where things just feel so chaotic and they feel so unpredictable and it feels so many things feel so impossible.

I would argue that like love is proof that miracles exist all the time, all around us and that your life is already full of miracles. If you know love, whether it's romantic love, platonic love, familial love, it's all such a blessing. And hopefully it makes you feel a little bit better at the end of the day to, to see and know that you're a part of miracles abound just by existing and just by loving.

Um, so yeah, that thinking about that kind of stuff brings me joy.

[00:43:12] Ellington Brown: So what advice would you give someone? It doesn't matter if it's male or female, but they've written a story. Okay. They have belabored this thing, got it to a point where there's nothing else they can do with it. I mean, they have edited it and switch things around and rewording things using different words, but now that they have this story.

Where do they go? How do they start the process of publishing? And it could be either non-traditional or traditional, whichever one you feel comfortable talking about. 

[00:43:53] Charlene Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. I think that Um,

it's hard because I don't necessarily take my own advice, but I, I think that to the extent that you're comfortable with it, the best thing you can do once you feel the way like you've described, like, I've changed all the words that I've added, I've done this is to let somebody else read it. Um, I paused before I given that answer because.

I am a very solitary writer. So nobody reads what I write except for like my agent and my editor. So I don't necessarily follow this advice. And so I say that not everybody needs to follow this advice, but I think that you kind of start to know who you are as a writer and start to know what your path needs to look like.

And for a lot of people sharing your work with somebody else, a trusted. knowledgeable reader. And that was sort of what I was alluding to when you asked, like, what did college creative writing classes sort of teach you? It taught me to be a more responsible feedback partner because you can't just say, Oh yeah, your book was great.

I loved it. Or, Oh, I didn't like it. Like that's not helpful and that's not feedback. And so to the extent that you're comfortable, find a trusted critical eye. That will look at your story. Don't send it to just anyone. Please, God, because there are sharks out there. People steal ideas all the time. So send it to people you trust and get feedback.

I guarantee you if you show me your story after you think you've done everything you can to it, especially somebody that's like kind of just getting into it. I could very easily be like, or what if you had this happen instead of this happen or this happen instead of this happen. That's just what happens when you let other people's eyes look at your work.

Um, so share your work if you can and if you feel comfortable and if you feel like you should. Um, The next step after that research publishing, and I'm talking about all areas, whether you want to self publish, traditional publish, indie publish, there's so many different ways. It's your responsibility, because again, publishing is a business.

And so these are business relationships that you're making. It is your responsibility as somebody who says that they want to write professionally to understand the profession of writing. So research publishing, understand what self publishing is versus indie versus traditional, understand which of those routes works best for you.

And then, once you understand it, once you know how it all works, I strongly, or as you're discovering those things, I also strongly suggest that you try to find community. Writers need other writers. Writers protect other writers. Writers support other writers. Writers are your tribe. Especially before you're sort of finding your stride a little bit in publishing, but even once you have keep your writing friends like they, regardless of where they are in their journeys like you guys need each other and it's important.

So, when you sort of found your community and you've done your research and you've let other people read. I think at that point you're ready to start pursuing whatever path you decided was right for you, but I think sometimes writers get so eager, because they feel exactly like how you described like, oh, I've edited, I've moved everything around, I've, you know, changed, I've changed this word and that word, and they're like, it's time for me to just get it published.

And I think more often than not, that creates a little much longer process than what needs to happen. And also the reality is, is that you get to pitch that book one time. So understand what you're doing before you sort of like waste your shot because you didn't take the time to become as educated as you could have become so that would be my suggestion.

[00:48:05] Rita Burke: Is there anything that we did not ask you that you want to leave any nuggets, any message you want to leave with our listeners? 

[00:48:16] Charlene Thomas: Yeah. I will just say that. Whether you are listening because you're a writer or because you want to be an astronaut or whatever it is, I think what you're doing is cool and I hope that you hear that often and I hope that if you don't, that this little bit at least reassures you, reaffirms for you that what you are doing and what you want to do is Absolutely within your right to dream about and pursue.

And I think you can do it. So, um, if you are a writer who is sort of looking to figure things out and get into the industry or whatever it may be, um, I just care so much about writers and I love helping. However, I can so, um, you can always find me on social media. As I mentioned, I do do writing coaching, uh, to help support authors and writers who are anywhere from the conception of a story, their very first story to a full draft.

And they think they're ready to start querying, but they don't know where to start. So, uh, to the extent that If I can be helpful to you, I would love to be, um, story coaching, an editorial, or you can find me on social media. And if I don't hear from you, I'm rooting for you either way. So, yeah.

[00:49:47] Ellington Brown: Wow! Such a positive lady.

[00:49:51] Charlene Thomas: I want to be!

[00:49:54] Ellington Brown: I want to thank you for this after this, well, it's afternoon now. 

[00:49:59] Charlene Thomas: It's cuspy! We started in the morning, now it's afternoon. 

[00:50:03] Ellington Brown: I know pick one have fun! 

[00:50:05] Charlene Thomas: Yeah! 

[00:50:06] Ellington Brown: So you are definitely inspirational and we got to taste your inspiration and how it moved you as a young child to write and it seemed like you came to the planet with a pen and pencil and some paper Uh in your hand, which is absolutely amazing! We talked a little bit about your education at North Carolina State University your MBA at Emory University Uh your writing and publishing uh debut to the Books that you now have, uh, distributed to the world and now the next book that's coming out shortly, and it's not only something that you have a gift for, but you also have the necessary sheepskin to back it up, and that is really, uh, really, really, really important, and also we touched on, uh, your future dreams or your future projects that you wish to, um, to get into.

And the one thing that I can say that I can take away from all of this is that you've given us permission to dream. And I think that is so, uh, important that we never lose that aspect because once we do, we're kind of just waiting to die because we have no longer have any aspirations. 

[00:51:49] Charlene Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:51:49] Ellington Brown: Rita, is there anything you want to add to that?

[00:51:54] Rita Burke: Not very much, except to, to thank Charlene so much for gracing our platform with her presence. You are a remarkable storyteller. I can see why you write so well. But also, but also you care about people and I felt every ounce of that care. And I thank you for that. Usually what we say on SpeakUP! International is that our guests pour into us.

And today you poured a lot of knowledge, a lot of education, and you inspired us. So thank you. Thank you, Charlene Thomas, for being with us on SpeakUP! International. 

[00:52:37] Charlene Thomas: Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. And yes, dreaming is not childish. Dreaming is brave. So keeping brave and do what you're meant to do here!

[00:52:50] Ellington Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International! If you wish to contact Ms. Charlene Thomas, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Ms. Thomas at https://www.charlenethomasbooks.com/. Ms. Thomas has other social media accounts you can use to connect to her. That will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. 

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