[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!

[00:00:16] Rita Burke: Our guest today is Phil Vassell. He's had over 25 years of journalism experience, which included five years at the CBC, National TV News, CBC TV Windsor, and CBC Toronto. He was also publisher, editor of the Word Magazine for 20 years. Phil is the recipient of numerous awards, including the Harry Jerome Award.

He is also the Executive Director of World Major Group Incorporated. There's so much more that I could say about Mr. Phil Vassell, so much more I want to say about him, but as we do on SpeakUP! International, as we believe, we prefer for our guests tell their stories. And so welcome to SpeakUP! International, Mr. Phil Vassell! 

[00:01:15] Phil Vassell: Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here. 

[00:01:19] Ellington Brown: We're glad to have you here. Today. This is a nice way to start the new year! I want to start with you talking a little bit about yourself and your background. So what inspired you to pursue a career in journalism?

And how did your early experiences shape your path? 

[00:01:43] Phil Vassell: I would say that as a child, I was always interested in knowing what's going on in the world growing up in Jamaica in my first 10 to 12 years. Radio and print were the primary medium at the time, not so much television. And I always found that I gravitated towards wanting to know more about what's going on in the world.

So there was a built in curiosity. And access, I would look forward to reading the weekend publications that had a lot more information. A good example is New York times, you could spend half a day picking up the Sunday, New York times, for example, and finding a variety of stories that you were interested in, or might be interested in that

became much more of a desire when I was in high school. I worked for a brief time at Contrast Newspaper, which at the time was the leading black community newspaper. And I had the pleasure of working with an editor by the name of Clint Albino, who gave me opportunities. Not just to write, but also to sell advertising for contrast.

So it felt like that was my crash course into the world of publishing and into the world of journalism. So that kind of fed my interest and my curiosity. When I entered university, I studied political science. And at one point considered, going on to law school, but the journalism bug never left me.

And so I, despite, studying political science, I was interested in, in, in politics as well. I just kept coming back to, that first love with journalism. I'm, I've been doing this for a while. We discovered through someone who had worked with us as a mentor and advisor that the world of journalism was not very different from the world of archives, you're fact checking, you're, you're editing copy, you're researching, you're writing, you're verifying the information. So that transition from being a journalist, an editor a publisher, and, having the opportunity to work at CBC television, I felt that it was, all transferable to the world of archives.

And so that's how we got into this. Donna and I had 20 years publishing Word Magazine. Donna's my wife, by the way. And we produced several festivals, again, developing experiences there. And then, at the time of the pandemic in 2020, that's when we decided to pivot towards documenting a lot of the information that we had, produced over the course of the previous 20 years both in terms of the festivals and also in terms of the publishing end of things.

So I guess you could say there's been a through line from those early years of journalism and the passion for journalism to the current times where even though I'm not a journalist per se, a lot of the skill set is being applied to the world of archives. 

[00:05:44] Rita Burke: That's Philip in a nutshell! Now, in your bio, you talk about the Word Magazine, tell our audience about that baby of yours, please.

[00:05:59] Phil Vassell: Word Magazine was founded back in 1992 and Word Magazine arose out of not just the general interest that I, Donna and I shared but we had just come back from our honeymoon, which was in Brazil of all places. And one of the things that I experienced while in Brazil.

We visited Bahia, which is the strongest state in terms of the black population in Brazil, and had an opportunity to soak up a lot of the culture. Surprisingly, there were small museums in Bahia that celebrated the history of Afro Brazilians, and I just felt really comfortable with what I was experiencing and got inspired, by what I'd seen there.

And so Donna and I decided, I was working at CBC at the time. She was working in science at the time for a private company. And we both asked ourselves, is this what we want to do for the next 20, 25 years? And we both said, you know what, wouldn't it be nice if we were able to develop a Magazine that spoke to not just Black culture as we knew it in Toronto, but diasporic Black culture, which is to say we would talk about music, we would talk about film, we would talk about art, we would talk about theater we would talk about, sociocultural and sociopolitical stories that resonate with us as young black people which you weren't getting from the mainstream organizations. And what better way to do that than to create a publication that would speak to those interests. So within six months of coming back from Brazil, we published our very first copy of Word Magazine and the response was amazing.

We had an opening event with artist performances and introducing the public to the copy of Word that we just printed and, we went home with such a high natural high from the response that we were seeing with what we had produced. I went back to CBC television and said to them, look, can I have a leave of absence?

And they said, Phil, what are you going to be doing? I said, I'd like to publish this Magazine full time. And they said as long as you're not going to embarrass us because you're still a representative of the CBC. And I said, you don't have to worry about that. I'm not leading a parade, I'm publishing a Magazine!

And so that's how we got started. And the response to this very day, Rita, as you probably know has been fantastic. People are asking, when are you going to bring this back? And my thinking was you can't step in the same river twice. It was time to go on and build on those experiences.

[00:09:30] Ellington Brown: You talked a little bit about the CBC, and I want you to give us one or maybe two memorable stories or experiences from your time at the CBC National TV News and if there were any other CBC outlets? 

[00:09:54] Phil Vassell: I think the one that stands out for me working at CBC National TV News as a researcher then, and it was around the time that Ben Johnson, tested positive for a banned substance.

Steroid and I was assigned to during the hearing. There was a public hearing. I forget the name of the judge that was leading the hearing at the time. But I was given this task of sitting in a studio. And documenting all the important moments in terms of the various people who had to testify at this hearing about the use of steroids in athletics.

And, obviously Ben Johnson went from being a Canadian hero to being simply a Jamaican. So that experience really was eye opening in a number of ways that, that, we could go on about. But also journalistically, I had to isolate those moments, those highlights Which would later play on midday news or the national news at 10.

And you had to develop strong learning skills. You had to develop documentation skills, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That to me was like baptism by fire because everything that happened during that inquiry was important for a variety of reasons.

 The 2nd story that sticks out for me was when I was working as a reporter in Windsor, Ontario for CBC, I was signed a story that that resulted in me being exposed to lot of fish that died from toxic materials that was in that lake between Windsor and Ontario, and I guess it was one of my first experiences at how important the environment, wildlife, and the whole environmental issue, and this was, in the 80s.

How important that stuff was. Just to visually see this stuff and watch them die and, the smells and all this sort of thing makes you realize that we as human beings needed to be more conscious of what we were doing to the environment. 

[00:12:42] Rita Burke: You talked to about so many things or you're talking about so many things, Phil, that are important . peaking my curiosity and my interest and that judged it. The Ben Johnson inquiry was Charles Dubbin. 

[00:12:58] Phil Vassell: Thank you. 

[00:12:59] Rita Burke: However, I want to go back to something you said at the top of our interview, and that is you're coming here as a child. Talk about that experience for us, please. 

[00:13:12] Phil Vassell: How deep do you want to get is the question?

I'll try to keep it brief. I think. My experience probably prepared me quite well for being a good journalist. And that was, there was this practice of putting students back a grade because there was this thinking that, Canada's education system was superior to Jamaica's and not just Jamaica's.

I think it was the case with folks from the Caribbean and even beyond that. My first week, the second week of arriving in Canada, I was off to school in September, and of course, I had to face the indignity of being put back based on nothing other than an assumption that somehow my previous education was not on par.

What I did was I, Went straight to the office of the vice principal and I said, look, I've just completed this course, all the requisite, prerequisite courses that I need to do and I should be moving up to the next grade. And they said I'm sorry, this is the way we do it. And my response was, so how do I prove that to you that, you're making a false assumption?

And they said okay, this was Friday. They said why don't you write a test when you come back next week? And we will determine whether or not you're ready to go on to what would have been grade nine. And I said, sure. So they put me in a room. I wrote that test, aced it. And the vice principal had to come back and say to me Phil, we were wrong.

You should be going on to a high school as a result of the results. And at that point, only two weeks into the country, I said what is the closest school high school to me? That was Oakwood Collegiate. Where I live, 5 minutes down the road. And it turned out that Oakwood Collegiate had one of the better programs in the city.

And not only that, they had an Afro, student organization where during black history month and other important times, they'd bring various speakers in. So this was a significant enhancement to what you were learning in the classroom. And I think I've benefited from that, but more importantly. I felt that it taught me to stand up for myself.

[00:15:59] Rita Burke: Before Elton asks his next question, I must say that I'm impressed with the fact that you were able to face the administration in a different country and to speak on your behalf, speak on your own behalf and to advocate for yourself. Where did you learn to be that confident? 

[00:16:18] Phil Vassell: I had the kind of experience in Jamaica where my mother was a teacher.

Okay. And I had this this teacher in primary school there. His name is Victor Williams and I was one of his favorite students because I excelled. So I was given opportunities to speak in front of the class. To not be intimidated, to represent myself and my opinions, and you can only grow when you're being empowered in those kind of situations.

My mother did not take stuff from anybody. So being the oldest in the family of seven, we would play good cop, bad cop when it was time to go and speak to the school principal or the VP or the counselor on matters pertaining to my brothers and sisters. So again, all those experiences of representing yourself or representing your family members I was that guy. In church, I was being called on to get in front of the church and read from the Bible every Sunday. So public speaking became something that was, easy by the time I arrived here. So I think it's, My grandmother who it was her brother that was the pastor of the church. I remember my grandmother used to say this.

I don't know what part of Proverbs it comes from, but she would always say, train a child in the way he should grow. And when he's old, he will not depart from it. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't, work for women as well or females, but it was taken as a direct quote from the book of Proverbs. So those things, you can only be empowered.

I believe if the parent or the teachers that you're dealing with help to empower you as an individual and not be intimidated by a teacher or the system for that matter, 

[00:18:35] Ellington Brown: I think that's very important that Children are empowered by the their parents before anyone else has the opportunity to provide such support 

[00:18:50] Phil Vassell: or the lack of it.

[00:18:51] Ellington Brown: Or the lack of it! My mom was very strong, very quiet woman, but she took no crap from anybody. She was always quiet. But she always remained firm, and I guess that's one reason why my mom finished as Valedictorian when she was in university, because she did not allow them back then to put her in a corner because of the color of her skin.

[00:19:23] Phil Vassell: You're very lucky. 

[00:19:25] Ellington Brown: So how does being a recipient of the Howard Jerome Award in business, how has that helped you personally and professionally? 

[00:19:37] Phil Vassell: I get that question a lot, or I used to get it a lot. Howard Jerome, Was a world class sprinter that represented Canada very well at the Olympics and other international events and the black business and professional association reached out to hire Jerome's family.

To be able to name this series of awards after Harry Jerome hopefully that's for the benefit of your audience, but it was the most prestigious award in the black community that sought to honor people for excellence in a number of different areas. We got it for publishing, primarily publishing Word Magazine.

And I've been asked, how has it helped? I think I can't point to a tangible example of how it's helped. What I would say is that it goes back to the theme of empowerment. Okay. It underscored for me and for Donna that we were on the right path in terms of the work that we were doing.

Okay. It didn't put money in our pocket, or anything like that. But it was a sense of acknowledgement from your community, from the black community here in, in Canada, in Toronto. That what you were doing mattered and mattered to a lot of people who were readers of Word Magazine and it's seen the quality of work that we're putting out there.

So I think that became, the kind of shot in the arm that says, you guys are doing well, keep on going. So that was important because that kind of acknowledgement is priceless.

[00:21:37] Rita Burke: No question about that. Harry Jerome awards, they were very selective and the people that they gave their awards to and congratulations on being one of those recipients, but also Phil Vassell, you gave Birth to the IRE Music Festival.

Share with our audience first , a little bit about the IRE Music Festival please. 

[00:22:01] Phil Vassell: Yes. The IRE Music Festival became the second, of three festivals that Donna and I created. We started with the Toronto Urban Music Festival, which preceded IRE Music Festival by a couple of years. And what we saw there as publishers was that there weren't a lot of avenues available to young Black urban performers.

Hip hop and R& B artists especially. And we saw the talent. We wrote about the talent and Word Magazine. Um, so we decided that we were going to do something about that to provide an avenue, a stage where all these great young talents would have an opportunity to perform at a time when rap music was being demonized in certain spaces.

We felt that we could do something about that. So we organized the Toronto Urban Music Festival year one, in a number of venues in the city. And by year two, we were invited by the Canadian National Exhibition to host our concert at the CNE. And we never looked back. It was year after year of successes and providing a platform for these artists.

And after trying to bring various forms of black music together under the banner of the Toronto Herb the Music Festival, we realized that it wasn't working. So we created a separate space. To showcase reggae and world music, Soca and, and, and all of that as being under the umbrella of the IRE music festival, while we continued with the Toronto urban music festival, because those young people.

At the time they wanted to hear hip hop on R&B and they weren't interested in other forms or genres at the time, or at least that's the way it came across. So we basically created two spaces, if you will, for people in each of those genres to listen to. To showcase their skills and it wasn't being done anywhere else.

We thought, let's take this from the page to the stage. And Rita might be able to acknowledge this. I know she's the interviewer, but she was also a participant. We actually introduced a book component. We wanted to talk about broadly speaking, the arts, it was music. It was film. It was. Literature, all those pieces were under the umbrella of the IRE music festival.

It was visual arts. We took over the city of Toronto's atrium and we featured, the book component and the visual arts component, and we worked very closely with Rita and her husband, Sam to, energize the book and literature aspect and the festival just kept growing. We had one year we had Toots and the Maytels as the headline artist and about 30, 000 people converged on to Nathan Phillips Square.

And people were initially concerned, what would happen if you brought all this many black folks together into that space, and it was the most peaceful experience that you could have beyond enjoying the music and the culture and the laughter and all that sort of stuff. None of those naysayers predictions ever came to pass and people look forward to IRE music festival every year.

We expanded. Went to Queen's Park North. We also expanded again and went to Yonge Dundas Square. We expanded again and we went to Ontario Place. We expanded again and we went to the city of Mississauga, who invited us to be, presenters of this festival there. So each time we did this, The community supported it, embraced it, and celebrated it, and as my oldest daughter said to me sometime ago, she works in public health, she said to me, dad, did you know that what you and mom are doing is a public health good?

I said, how do you mean? She says the opportunity for people to come together and see themselves in a community space and celebrate their culture. How can it not be seen as such? And I'd never thought about that previously, but she was so right. And I wouldn't say I was discounting iRE Festival, but.

If I had a favorite where I had to choose at the time, I would have said Word Magazine is my favorite initiative. But after she pointed that out, it's like you say about your children. You love all your children the same way. 

[00:27:46] Ellington Brown: Yes, I agree with you on that. You talked about Word Magazine. Yeah. IRE music festivals and there were many of them.

So you had that and you had this book that was going on. So you had all of these platforms in the air for Black people to socialize, to educate themselves, to see themselves. What do you see for Black individuals with all of these platforms? What were the advantages to this phenomenon? 

[00:28:30] Phil Vassell: As I said, there, there are a lot of advantages if you were performing in any of these black genres here in the 90s, and in Toronto there was a lack of access To the clubs where most people might take for granted as being the spaces where you go and you sharpen your skills as a performer.

So there is on one side, what it meant for the performers and being given access to perform at one of the biggest stages in the country, which was at at the CNE. The bandshell stage and for the community I don't think you can understate the importance of us coming together by the thousands and having it that be a peaceful, celebratory celebratory.

Opportunity to get to know each other and to shake a hand, meet someone for the first time and to see each other and in a comfortable environment, I think you can't put a price tag on that. And we did IRE for 20 years. So I think having that impacting the community and allowing not just the black community to participate because it wasn't all black community in terms of attendance, but it gave other ethnic groups an opportunity to come out and celebrate with us to be a part of that experience.

Some of those artists that we hired were not from the community, so it's providing a leadership in an area where I felt that, it was needed. IRE, couldn't go on for 20 years if the support wasn't there, it was a free event. So I think, when I look back at it I see something that gave us a chance to give back to the community in ways that you can't put a price tag on.

[00:30:37] Rita Burke: Do you know Philip Vassell on SpeakUP! International, we seek to inform, to inspire, and to educate. And when you described the IRE music festival. I was getting goosebumps because I remember being there with you and Donna and all of the other people really enjoying but contributing something to our community.

And on this program we speak with people, have conversations with people that we consider to be community builders. And there's no question that You are doing that, and you did that back then with the IRE Music Festival. Now, we were really bold and brave, and we took on things that we were not sure about, but they worked.

I remember one year, we did the Literary Tent, where we invited all of the council generals from across the Caribbean to come read a book on the platform of a book written by an author from their respective countries. Now for heaven's sake, we didn't have a clue how that would turn out, but it was absolutely successful.

I haven't seen anyone do anything like that since that time, but that was, I think really a good thing to do. So thank you for that! 

[00:31:55] Phil Vassell: Thank you. It could not happen without you and Sam! You guys are troopers! You went along for the ride as well. 

[00:32:02] Rita Burke: Every ride! 

[00:32:04] Phil Vassell: And I think the results spoke for themselves. But, I say this even today when I'm working with interns and other people with the Canada Black Music Archives, Teamwork makes the dream work.

[00:32:20] Ellington Brown: Every time. I can definitely tell you that if you don't have a team, you're not going to go very far. You can't do these things alone, especially at the level that you guys were working from. You couldn't do it with just Rita and her husband, you and your wife and expect for everything to just roll together.

I'm going to say Cornbread and Kala Loo.

[00:32:50] Rita Burke: Kala, I thought it was Kala. I didn't know it was Kala Loo. 

[00:32:53] Phil Vassell: It's Kala Loo this time. 

[00:32:57] Ellington Brown: I've had them, I've had them both and I love them to death. Can't get enough, can't get enough of them. 

[00:33:06] Phil Vassell: I hear you! And it's also bringing two worlds together, right? Oh yeah. Kala Loo is so beautiful. something Caribbean folks know quite well. Cornbread is something that we also know, but we associate that with African Americans. Then we do Caribbean folk. 

[00:33:24] Ellington Brown: Yes! The funny part about it is that we adapt instantly between the two. I don't think either culture has any problem eating either of those dishes. And I think that's what makes It's beautiful! 

[00:33:40] Phil Vassell: Absolutely! 

[00:33:41] Ellington Brown: Why do you believe that media and digital literacy training is crucial to today's youth? 

[00:33:50] Phil Vassell: I will say this, that We are living in a, in as much a physical world as we are a digital world. And proof of that came during the pandemic when we all had to stay home and isolate and communicate largely on social media platforms. So that was part of the genesis of the current project that we're working on, which is the Canada Black Music Archives. We realized that there was no point in attempting to get into a physical space when you can't meet in a physical space, and the technology had come to such a point where everybody with a laptop or, a smartphone was communicating that way.

You only had to project five, 10 years down the line, how much of our world was going to be, the constant shifting back and forth of digital media, physical traditional media and all of that. And I'd already spent a lot of time in traditional media, so it was also an opportunity for me and our crew to embrace the future to embrace the digital world, so to speak, and the literacy piece, I would say we got a long way to go in terms of teaching, not just digital literacy, but media literacy. If you look around you right now, what you'll find is everybody has access to the Internet. Everybody, if they want, have access to social media, but our ability to decode misinformation from facts, disinformation from facts, we're falling behind in our abilities.

I believe to discern that difference. And it's crucial that we do that. It's affecting elections. Everywhere. And sometimes there are people there being very deliberate about throwing you off a certain path and discovering the truth. Now, even the idea of facts are being contested. So you asked me how important that is.

I think it's critical. I think every student going through the education system at this point. Needs to understand the importance of media literacy, broadly speaking, and specifically digital literacy. And if they're not learning the difference, they are going to be, can I use the Word suckers?

They're going to be suckers! As, time passes on where they're unable to tell the difference.

[00:36:56] Rita Burke: Unable to tell the difference between reality and fiction and nonfiction. Yes, and we have a responsibility as an older generation to try to help them to get to that point. I quite agree with you.

Now, Phil, could you think of a time in your life, either personally or professionally, when you had to say enough? 

[00:37:22] Phil Vassell: The hardest part for me professionally. Was when I had to say goodbye to publishing Word Magazine and. We threw ourselves into publishing Word Magazine. And we were watching profits decline, revenues decline as more and more people were transitioning to the web.

So that became untenable, despite the demand for the product, despite the demand for the publication it was not a situation where we were losing readership. More and more people wanted to have it, but because it was a free publication, not a subscription based publication, we had to let it go.

And that was, I think, something where, Donna and I, Donna sooner than I, said, we'll have to let it go. That was hard. IRE Music Festival the pandemic made it untenable as well, and so our next project became one that was digital And that's the the Digital Black Music Archives that we're now currently working on.

It can survive a lot of things, unlike the previous two. So we're happy with it. And the feedback is really quite surprising in terms of people's positive response to it. I've had stories done on it from the states. In a couple of different states I've had stories done on the archives by the Jamaican Gleaner we've had people from outside what you might think would be the core audience reach out to us and say, we like what you're doing.

It's an opportunity for me to learn something about Black Canadian musicians. and it's an opportunity to grow from that.

[00:39:29] Ellington Brown: So what do you think you will be doing, or let's say, three years from now? What are your future aspirations? 

[00:39:40] Phil Vassell: That's pretty easy because Donna and I are totally committed to the idea of expanding the CBMA, the Canada Black Music Archives.

We, having been based in the province of Ontario have a large majority of the content and the archives coming from the province of Ontario. We do have representation from the other provinces. But over the course of the next 3 years. There are a lot of cities and provinces to get to where we can build out the digital archives so that it becomes the hub for finding out about black Canadian musicians.

As I said, we're going back 100 years. I used to say from Nathaniel Dett to Drake, but I've since been educated and I now know that there was a family, the Ball family, that was a Christian family that had a a chorale, a choir that performed both in the USA and in Canada. And they preceded Robert Nathaniel Dett, who's also, by the way, in the Smithsonian where they call him a Canadian American or an American Canadian.

We want to make it clear to them he was born here, so he's a Canadian first. But, I'm joking, of course. There's a good percentage of the people who are in this archives are also African Americans by birth. If you know anything about the history there was a lot of migration north, starting with the Underground Railroad to Canada.

And that wave, if you will, it came in waves over the course of 100 plus years. So we're documenting that. History because it's important that we know who we are and there are other ways from the Caribbean and there are other ways from Africa. There are other ways from South America. So Canada as a country, I think, has benefited from its rich musical heritage.

Because of these waves of immigration, and we want to tell that story. 

[00:42:11] Rita Burke: And you are doing something similar to what we're doing on SpeakUP! International. Because our hope is, our goal is, that 20 years from now, when students are researching people who built our community, they will hear these people telling their own stories on SpeakUP! International.

And I'm hoping that we are archiving these stories for that particular audience. People who have been here and people who could talk about naan depth. If you talk to youngsters, let's say 30 and below. Do you think they'll recognize that name? I don't. 

[00:42:45] Phil Vassell: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[00:42:46] Rita Burke: I don't it much. So let's say you were approached by a publishing house. Mr. Phil Vassell, and they wanted to write your story. What three themes do you want to see being threaded through your story in a book about Phil Vassell? 

[00:43:07] Phil Vassell: Consistency resilience, and passion. I think those things are crucial to any kind of success in life period, but in terms of my own personal and Donna's personal stories, I think when you look at us, you'll find those themes coming again and again in the various ventures that we've we've had thus far. I'll tell you a quick story. I remember I was being told by a group of friends that I should consider applying to CBC television for a job in journalism.

And this came after I'd made a presentation to the CRTC, the Canadian Radio and Television Communications Commission on behalf of someone who is applying for a black radio station license. And the rules of the road, the rules of the game is that as an intervener, which I was at the time, you cannot intervene against another intervener, otherwise you get thrown out.

There was another person in the room that decided to go up there and spill a number of lies about the application that I was supporting. And, I wanted to find a way to point out that these were lies and I could document it to prove it. And the person, the chairman of the the commission who was sitting on the hearing at the time.

Stopped me as soon as about, soon as I was about to challenge what was being said. And he said to me, Mr. Vassell, you know the rules, you cannot intervene against another intervener. And I said, but Mr. Chairman, is there a way for me to tell you that this person was lying?

He left. I knew what I'd done. He knew what I'd done. Which was to say, this guy's lying through his teeth and you need to know that. And They whispered amongst themselves, the jury, and they said, Okay, Mr. Vassell it will be acknowledged. And I said, Thank you. That night, I was the star. I was treated to drinks and a lot of pats on the back.

And they asked me, So what are you going to do next? I said I can get into radio advertising, which I had some experience in, or I can become a journalist. And one of the people there said to me, in life you have two choices. You can pursue your passion or your pension. And I looked at her and I said, is there a third?

She says, don't worry about a third. If you're passionate about what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life. Because you look forward to getting up in the mornings to take on the challenge, whatever that challenge is. You know what it is. If it's about pension you're trying to make as much money as you can before you retire.

I then said, I think there's a third option. She said, what is it? I said, how do I make my passion, my pension? Because I was passionate about journalism and telling stories and empowering people. As a friend of mine said, comfort. The afflict the comforted and, comfort the afflicted and that appealed to me that sentiment was something that I could get with.

So that was the role that I saw us being as a journalistic publication. And we've followed that all the way through now when we're saying to the institutions in the world of galleries, archives, and museums, That we haven't done enough in terms of documenting the history and the contributions of black Canadian artists in this country considering the wealth of information that is out there, considering the research that we have documented.

Something needs to be done and that's what we're engaged in doing. So I totally agree with what you're saying. Rita and Elton. If you don't document, the history doesn't exist. And a lot of that history gets lost. A lot of that history gets suppressed. A lot of that history just simply get forgotten.

And the example that I always talk about is those five or six African American women who helped the USA, NASA get to space, doing math before there was computers to do the kind of math that they were doing. They were celebrated in the film Hidden Figures. And if you haven't seen that yet, go check it out.

It's a classic. But to me our history here in Canada is a case of hidden figures, and we have a duty to ourselves to document that history. Share it with the community at large, but especially our children so that they become empowered. 

[00:48:51] Rita Burke: But we want us to be the ones to be documenting and sharing.

[00:48:55] Phil Vassell: Amen!

[00:48:55] Rita Burke: So that's about self determination and we need to keep that in mind. We often say that we, our stories are not being told. We have been forgotten in history. But I think it's important for us. Be the ones to be telling her own stories because you know what's going to happen if we don't tell her own stories and tell her own history, it's going to be this absolutely distorted in favor of the other person who's telling it.

[00:49:22] Phil Vassell: You know they say history is written by the victors. And if you're not perceived as a victor you don't get a chance to tell even your story.

[00:49:32] Ellington Brown: And that's the the sad truth. And we're seeing that come to fruition when we look at what's going on in the U. S. and what they're trying to do with Black history.

They're trying to make that go away. And they want to replace it with their truth. And of course, ours would be negated. And that would be a very sad thing. And just think, that's just taking us back hundreds of years, by them wanting to erase our history, something that we've taken hundreds of years to put together, to fact check it, to make sure that it's correct so that it could be passed down from one generation to the next.

But what they're doing is they're trying to destroy that history so that there's nothing to pass to our children and our children's children, which is a very malicious thing, and we must do what we can in order to stop that process. I want to thank you so much for joining us today. It has been a total joy.

We talked about your career in journalism, awards and achievements. 

[00:51:03] Phil Vassell: We grabbed a Word, which was seminal and a consistent piece Word Magazine and continued with that because in our view the Black Music Archives. Is part of the legacy of Word Magazine.

A lot of the material that was written at Word Magazine will find its place. Being preserved in the Canada Black Music Archives, so Word Media Group is essential to that. 

[00:51:31] Ellington Brown: We talked about your festivals that you had and cultural contributions a little bit about community youth empowerment and how it is important for the youth to be able to distinguish.

Between what's true and what's false. And if they can't do that, then as you put it, they're going to be suckers. We don't need another one of those. And a little bit about your future. and cultural preservation. So I want to thank you so much, and I'm hoping that in the next, oh, let's say year from now, I'm sure you will have had added more chapters to your book of life, you and your wife.

And please come back to us and let us know what you are doing with the archives. I'm sure by a couple of years from now, it will have Quadrupled in size, and we would definitely love to have an opportunity to talk about some of the historical treasures that are part of what you love most. 

Rita, do you have anything that you want to say?

[00:52:52] Rita Burke: I just want to say thank Philip for gracing us with his presence. It's been a while. And when I first approached Donna, she said Philip is a spokesperson for us as a team. So maybe you should have him instead. And I said I know you're just as capable. And I'm glad I had her. And now we've got Philip talking to us on SpeakUP! International.

For me, that's a coup because they bring a lot to the table. Of experience and knowledge and history and contribution to the table and I appreciate that. 

[00:53:24] Phil Vassell: I often say this to her, in terms of our accomplishments, there's no me without you as that famous song said. So it's been a very productive partnership.

I feel very fortunate. And having her as a working partner, but also as a wife and we just did the math. The other day, Rita our relationship goes back 42 years now. 

[00:53:53] Rita Burke: You know I was at your wedding too, huh? 

[00:53:55] Phil Vassell: I know that!

So it's been a while and you and Sam have been a part of our life as well, so you're not going anywhere. We'll make sure you don't.

But thank you both for the opportunity. I was trying my hardest to just make it a Donna thing, but I don't know if you know this, Elton what Rita wants, Rita gets. 

[00:54:18] Ellington Brown: Oh, we already know that. Believe me, if I didn't know that before we started this project, I certainly do know that now. 

[00:54:28] Phil Vassell: Okay, there you have it. Okay, guys, thank you so much! 

[00:54:33] Ellington Brown: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! 

[00:54:35] Phil Vassell: It's a pleasure. And good luck with that. I can't say enough about oral history and documenting our oral history as being a legitimate form of memory and remembering and kudos to you both for this project, 

[00:54:53] Ellington Brown: By the way, if you know of any individuals that you've talked to , feel should be recorded so that their history or their contributions to our community doesn't fall into the sands of time, never to be found again. We would definitely appreciate that. 

[00:55:15] Phil Vassell: I have Rita's contact as we're also, as I said, we're trying to make sure that. We document people who had real life experience with, what we're doing to hear their testimony, if you will. Because they're, I was a journalist, as I said, I know how that works.

So much gets filtered. And people aren't the authors of their own stories. Yes. So what you're doing is exceptionally important. 

[00:55:53] Ellington Brown: Okay I'm going to say thank you again and let's talk really soon. 

[00:55:59] Phil Vassell: Okay. Thank you much and we will talk again!

[00:56:02] Ellington Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International! If you wish to contact Mr. Phil Vassell, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Mr. Vassell at https://thecbma.com/,. Mr. Vassell has other social media accounts you can use to connect to him that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. 

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