[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! We have Michelle Joseph, who is going to read just a snippet of her book, introducing us to Words With Michelle, Inspirational Conversations With Today's Black Canadian Changemakers. Michelle, the stage is yours! 

[00:00:39] Michelle Joseph: Thank you! I didn't send out to write a preface. But after rereading my book over and over, I felt like I needed to explain the journey on how this book came to be. The process of writing this book has been difficult in the sense that I originally thought of doing it solely to share my decade long compilation of work.

But after reviewing my work, I knew I had to showcase the contributions of these amazing Black Canadian changemakers. that are currently making history. They're people we see in the news, read about, hear about. They're living Black history now. In our conversations, I learned about the trials and tribulations that they faced, and the resolve that kept them striving.

People of all ages, of all races, need to read about these forward thinking individuals who have shaped arts, and culture, education, politics, society, and more. They have a place in Canadian history. Additionally, the book is also a documentation of my growth and journey as a writer and as a person. When I look back, as well as listen to some of the interviews, I realize I was, and I still am, a work in progress.

I began writing about my, about influential people to showcase my writing and to validate my skills. I ended up learning a lot from them and ultimately myself. I learned that they too are just like anyone else and have real moments where they question their ability, purpose, and choices. I was able to use their experiences and apply them to my personal and professional journey.

They unwittingly became a part of the process of me getting to know myself. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I struggle with insecurities so much that it appears in practically every page. It was hard to read, but those were my feelings at the time. I contemplated deleting some of my very apparent insecurities, but I had to be true to myself and publish them.

It's how I felt at the time. Truth be told, I feel 100 percent better about my writing and my skills now, hence why I'm writing a book. Who knew that these conversations would have impacted me in the way that they did? Personally, professionally, and spiritually, I thank the change makers for not only being a part of history, but being a part of my life. Thank you all. 

[00:02:59] Rita Burke: You have just heard Michelle Joseph, reading from her book. Michelle hails from Rexdale, Ontario and is a Toronto based writer, blogger, and podcaster. Michelle has been writing ever since she was a shy high school student.

As a matter of fact, Michelle nurtured her craft by dabbling in poetry. She studied at York University and published a Zine for four years. Michelle, at one point, co hosted the College Talk Radio Show. There's so much more that I could say about Michelle Joseph. However, as we say on SpeakUP! International, we prefer if our guests tell their own stories.

[00:03:50] Michelle Joseph: Thank you. Thanks for allowing me to be here, just inviting me, I should say. Thank you for this! 

[00:03:57] Ellington Brown: I'm looking forward to this conversation. I am sure it is going to be fun. That's exactly what we enjoy most, is having fun.

There's an old saying, if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. 

[00:04:14] Michelle Joseph: Exactly! 

[00:04:14] Ellington Brown: So Michelle, where were you born and raised? 

[00:04:19] Michelle Joseph: I say Rexdale. I'll say Toronto because I don't think I actually lived here when I was born. I believe my mom said, I think for the first couple years of my life, I was born at Jane and Finch.

And believe me, I just found that out like recently. And then we moved into Rexdale when I was older. Say four or three or something like that. But Rexdale, born and bred. That's what raised me and I'm very proud to say that I'm from Rexdale. I like it. I love it.

[00:04:45] Rita Burke: Rexdale. There's something about Rexdale because a week ago we interviewed a man who has just released his first book and he too grew up in Rexdale. That is very interesting. Michelle, in your bio you refer to yourself as a shy high school student. Tell us what shyness looked like, sounded and behaved like, please.

[00:05:09] Michelle Joseph: Wow. Yes, I was a shy. I'm still shy. Just, I'm just not as shy. But when high school I was completely shy. And what it looked like was that, I wanted to fade into the background. I did not really want to be seen. Meaning that actually getting taken even further than that or earlier than that, I should say in elementary school, I was completely shy and I did not want to put up my hand.

I didn't want to answer any questions. I just did not. What to be seen. It had to do with insecurities, obviously, but I did not. When I was in school, I just did not feel I never felt comfortable. And that's probably the thing. I just never felt comfortable in school and like elementary school and high school, but I just just faded into the background and just didn't do much.

So there could be a lot of people who said, Oh, I didn't know she was in my class. I didn't know her. So if people like Michelle Joseph, I don't know who she is. And that's, I get that a lot. So they may know the face, but they're like, didn't, I think we went to school together. I'm not too sure. I get that all the time.

[00:06:04] Ellington Brown: I think you being shy, I think you were just reserving yourself for what you're doing today, which is you published a book. You're really putting yourself out there, allowing the shy person to stand in the background, which is excellent. So what inspired you to get into writing and podcasting?

[00:06:33] Michelle Joseph: So I can take it really I'll say back in the day, like when I was in high school, writing was the only outlet, to be quite honest. I always knew I was creative. That's the thing. And I when I was a kid, I actually thought I wanted to act. I thought I wanted to be an actress. And then, cause I really thought I was going to be an actress.

That was something that I don't even really talk about a lot. Actually, I don't even think anyone really knows that. But I thought I wanted to be an actress. That was just, I was a performer. I was always telling jokes. I was just, even though my school life, I was really shy, but in my personal life, I was just larger than life.

And it was looked to me to entertain. So I had that role. But writing, for some reason, I just got into poetry I just found that writing was fun, just telling stories were fun, so I ended up writing poetry, so that's how it actually began, was just writing poetry as in high school.

In high school, I took it a bit further. I started to actually write things down, and that's why I started writing. 

[00:07:28] Rita Burke: So you could have been a performer, an actress? You could have been a poet, you could have been anything and there's still room for those things to happen in your life. But you said that you dabbled a little bit in poetry.

Talk to us, please, about some of the themes that you may have dabbled with, please, Michelle. 

[00:07:49] Michelle Joseph: Of course, my poetry was always a theme of love. It was always unrequited love. It was always like, you're crushing on somebody, you had a crush on somebody. And And he didn't pay me any attention. So I was talking about, he was almost love.

It was just very yeah, I was a teenager. I was like an angst ridden teenager. And, majority, I would say like 80 percent was about love or just being, crushing on somebody. I don't know. And just being awkward, I guess maybe some of them was just some of the poems could have been very awkward.

Cause I was awkward and I was completely awkward. I'm still awkward. I think that had a lot to do with it when I was a teenager, yeah.

[00:08:25] Ellington Brown: How did your education in sociology Influence your career path? 

[00:08:32] Michelle Joseph: Because sociology is a study of society and I'm always observing people. Like I, it's just, and the funny thing, I didn't realize that too. I did not even like sociology just to be honest. I just took it. Because when I was thinking of going to school, I had no idea what I wanted to do.

I w at 17, 18, 19, you don't know what you want to do. Okay. So for me, I never, I did not know when I was graduating from university or from high school what I wanted to do. I was taking sociology family, the sociology of family in high school. Those courses that besides like history and math, whatever.

So you take these elective courses. So I took a sociology course in high school. And I'm like, yeah, I like that. So I'll pursue that in university. So I went to university, took it, not really challenged at all. But when I left university and I realized the show the careers of the jobs I got into, I realized I was using my sociology degree just by observing people, habits, just behavioral things.

So I think how that kind of info infiltrated into my writing is that I was an employment counselor and I was always interviewing clients about, getting to know them to help them find jobs. So that inadvertently I realized the ease of asking questions and people just being really at ease in my presence.

So that just. Happened to have fallen to the page. 

[00:09:50] Rita Burke: We're talking with Michelle Joseph, who is a Toronto blogger and author and podcaster. Now, Michelle, we've got a lot in common. You went to York, so did I. You studied sociology, so did I. So I wanted you to talk to us a little bit about What was it like to be a student at York University?

[00:10:13] Michelle Joseph: Okay, so that's going back a long time ago. What was it like? Okay, for me, it was pure freedom. And I know it sounds crazy, but coming from a Catholic high school and going to university was like, I just felt so so happy because it was just I didn't like high school. I didn't like it. I had to complete it because I wasn't gonna not complete high school.

My mother would kill me as well. The things I had to complete it and it was the least that I could do was complete high school. There's not, you have to at least finish. In my eyes, you had to finish it to be successful or just to be, that it was, there was no question.

So that wasn't even a question. It wasn't a thought. But yeah. And then I had to go to university because my sister went I know that sounds crazy, but you just got to do these things. So being at university was so much fun. Because I just met all these different people. It was about the fact that I met people.

I was always like excited that I met people. I never thought I'd meet ever people from different backgrounds, different religions, just different. And I just felt like I created my own schedule so I can do whatever I want. Yeah. So I, I had classes late at day, like I could, so you have this freedom and I did suffer for that.

My first year of university, I was on academic warning because I had too much freedom. So I was like, yeah, I was and that was embarrassing at the time. I was so embarrassed. Now I'm like, okay, that happened. Big deal. But at the time, I was really embarrassed. But I was able, I just took all these courses that, were just so interesting.

Like the sociology, not so much. At that time, I took psychology, I took French, I took film, but the film courses were the ones that spoke to me the most. I took about two or three film courses, and I was contemplated switching over to fine arts. I didn't because I didn't want to be in school any longer. So I just finished, I completed, I graduated with sociology with my BA in that, but I loved my film courses.

They were the courses that I most I had the most fun in, to be quite honest.

[00:12:06] Ellington Brown: You graduated with a degree in sociology. And so with that degree, that skill, how was your experience as an employment counselor like? 

[00:12:20] Michelle Joseph: It's funny cause I never actually really thought about it to be quite honest. Like when you, I just thought it was my God given talents that I was able to interview people to be quite honest.

Sociology was more about observation in my eye, like observing people and and then recognizing patterns, recognizing what we may or may not do. So I guess it had an impact. But I think it was just feel like it was my real life experiences because I didn't set out to be an employment counselor.

I stumbled upon this and I always tell people this when I was an employment counselor, I used to work at Humber college. Okay. When I can't, I think the years before prior to that job, I just sent. And you can't do this now. But anyways, I just sent out a resume to Humber. I just sent in a resume to Humber and prior to that, I was working at ESL.

I was an ESL assistant. So I sent out my resume to Humber, just a blind cover letter just saying, okay, this is my skills. They called me back and they said, we want you to come in for this position. And I'm like, what? Tell me what the position is because I don't know. I did not apply for anything.

So she said employment counselor and I'm like, okay, I can probably do that. I know how to look for a job. I handed, I just job search how to job search. And I did the the interview. I went through the interview and I got the job. So there was no thought process in this. I just sent a blind resume to Humber college, to the HR and I got the job.

So it wasn't like I set out to do it. I just I stumbled upon it. I stumbled upon it. 

[00:13:46] Rita Burke: Oh, how easy it was in those days. I know people that are looking for work right now and they're having so many interviews and so many interviews and they're qualified and their experience and nothing is happening and it was easy. I believe it was easier back then. 

[00:14:02] Michelle Joseph: I think they were, I was lucky that they were able to see my transferable skills though. They saw that, okay, worked in ESL. So I had experience with, speaking to others. And then I don't even know how they saw the job search because I did not put it on there, it's just they said part of the interview was to do a presentation.

I just figured out how to do a presentation and I went with it. I was lucky because I don't think luck has anything to do with it. I just put in the work and I, I job search. I knew how to job search effectively and I got it. Yeah. Thank God for the HR person who looked at it and said, yeah, I was very lucky.

[00:14:39] Rita Burke: I am really curious, Michelle, to find out a little bit more about that zine that you published for four years. Talk to us about that. 

[00:14:49] Michelle Joseph: Okay. It was a diary to be quite honest. I talked about everything. I talked about family, friends, people the guys I was dating or a guy I was dating.

It was, I was yeah, I won't talk too much about that. That was a lifetime ago. But it was basically, it was my diary. It was my diary. It was personal. And I tend to write about personal stuff because it's what affects me the most. And it's easier to write and you can be so true and authentic.

So a Zine back in the day when people weren't making zines, mees are a huge now. And a zine is a is a, it's a magazine, but it's self-made, it's self-published. So that's what I did. It was just a diary of, I'll just call it that.

[00:15:28] Ellington Brown: One good thing about that is that you won't forget, because if you do forget any parts of what you recorded, you can always go back to it and review it and say, Oh, yeah, that was the piece. Yes, I do remember that. 

[00:15:39] Michelle Joseph: Oh, I remember it all. It's. It was it was the younger me, right?

Like you see how you've changed because I have changed as a person. God, I was so young back then, and when you're young, you really don't care about what you write and what you say and what you do. It's only when you look back, you're like, okay, I wouldn't have phrased it like that.

That's rude. Even though I'm not a rude person, but I still, it's not, you get, when you're older, you realize. The way you present yourself or the things you say are right can come back to bite you. But I don't, I stand by everything I ever wrote, mind you. I, because at that time it was right.

You know what I mean? Okay. 

[00:16:11] Ellington Brown: Yeah I get that. I truly get that, being, shy, introverted, you do sometimes, guess yourself because you're trying to write something and you, you just throw it on a piece of paper and then you go back maybe 10 years later and you read it in horror because you can't believe what you said.

I don't mind. I put that on a piece of paper, and I turned that into my professor. What was I thinking? No wonder I didn't get it. No wonder I didn't get it. That's funny. We talked a little bit about you being a counselor. So I want to know now what did you do to prepare for transitioning into podcasting?

[00:16:55] Michelle Joseph: Okay. So I also have the same story because this is literally how it happened. So in I guess 2015 I had a I was working as an employment counselor in another place. I was no longer at Humber I went to another organization and I worked with someone for about three months and I really loved her.

She was like the best boss. She was just very smart. I just thought and the funny thing about this job too, I'm very, I can get jobs really quickly in the sense that I was at Humber at the time and I knew I wasn't an employment counselor. I was, I had a series of jobs at Humber. I had a lot of contracts.

So the last contract was, I was customer service. Basically, it was just customer service, and I was never happy in it because I wasn't using my skills. But anyways, so I had to find, my contract came to an end, and I had to find another job. So I'm like, I should get back into employment counseling. So I did an information interview, and I'm not too sure if everyone knows, an information interview is when you're looking for work, you look for someone in the field that you want to get into, and you speak to them for about 10 minutes, just ask them some questions about their journey, the education, blah, blah, blah.

So I found this organization and I found someone there. I'm like, I want to speak to this person. So I sent them an email. They responded yeah, come talk to, we will love to speak to you. So I went in, I spoke to this lady and soon as I walked in, she's Oh, it's Michelle from Words with Michelle.

I'm like, I guess I used the email from Words because I have two, I have a personal and have Words With Michelle. So he's Oh it's Michelle from Words with Michelle. I'm like, I like the way this is going already. I like, you seem to know who I am. That's awesome. And so she asked me questions about what I did.

So she found out about the blog, this and that. So anyways cause I wasn't a podcaster, so she found out about blog and then I ended up getting that job, by the way, like I did an interview and then I ended up getting a job, she's Oh, At the time, she said I'm glad you came by because we may have something if you're looking to get into employment counseling.

So it's yeah, sure. So within 2 weeks, I had an interview and within the next 2 weeks, I got a job. So all from the information interview, by the way. Anyways, the segue into that is that the person that Suggested again to podcasting was that lady, but I only work with her for three months after three months.

She left the job But like it was a year or two that we didn't have any contact. We bump into each other on the subway on the TTC and she said to me Michelle, how do I listen to your podcast? I'm like, I don't have a podcast. She only knew me as a blogger, but she's but I said, I don't have a podcast.

What are you talking about? She's you're the one person I believe should have a podcast or would have one. Let me know, work and listen to it. I'm like, don't really have it. And I can't tell you about it because I don't have it. So that same day I went to work. And I couldn't get it out of my head.

I'm like, Oh my God, this woman said I should have a podcast. I've only known this woman for three months. I found her really smart. I've always been looking for her. And she's the one who said I should do a podcast. So I just did not work that day. I'm like, I know I have work to do for my clients, but guess what?

Michelle's going to do work for herself. And I just Googled everything you need to know on how to become a podcaster. And I just got all that information, studied it. And I think that was in November of 2019. And by January 2020, I had a podcast. 

[00:19:58] Rita Burke: What a story, Michelle Joseph, about the birth of your podcast.

[00:20:07] Michelle Joseph: Yeah. 

[00:20:07] Rita Burke: And it certainly is a delight to have you on our podcast. It certainly is a delight. And you were also the co host of a college radio program. 

[00:20:20] Michelle Joseph: Yeah.

[00:20:22] Rita Burke: So I'm inviting you to walk us through a day in the life of that co host of that college radio program. 

[00:20:34] Michelle Joseph: So it started with me being a volunteer at York. It was at York. I was a volunteer. And then cause I knew for some reason I always wanted to get into radio. I was always obsessed with journalists their voices. I like the way they, you have that journalist voice. It's so professional. So as a kid I, and I put the connection, I made the connection Not too long ago, because I always had an obsession with the way people spoke and just the journalist voice.

I just love that journalist voice. I asked a friend who was volunteering at York. I said, I want to get on the radio and he's volunteer. So I started volunteering. And after I volunteered, I went to the program director and I'm like, I think I want to show I was still shy. So doing all this as a shy person, it takes a lot of work, to build it up.

He's yeah, sure. You can start off here. So I started off I did a test. thing like a test show and it was horrendous. Because I couldn't speak. I just, I read I couldn't read. So I did it and it was bad, but they still offered me a show. They still offer, like they're so nice.

You can be the co host of this thing called Cutting Edge. Yeah, I had, at first I had this one co host. And he was so into it. He was way better than I was. I was so background. Again, I was background. Because I just didn't, I didn't find my voice. I was really background. I was there to banter with him.

Whatever. But he took over. And then, one day he wasn't there. And then my program director said, we wanted to get you someone else because he wanted to hear my voice. Cause I guess he thought this person's larger than life and he wanted to give me a chance. So anyways I ended up getting another co host and he was a little more so dude and we ended up working together and it was fun.

I was still a little background mind you, but I still had a presence, I still had a presence and then I realized I had a presence the one time I realized I'm like, okay, maybe I can really do this. Is when my co host didn't show up, I don't know if you, I can't remember if he was sick or not, but he told me he couldn't do it, and I freaked out, I was so scared, because I'm like, not only do I have to do this on my own, but I have to do the technical part of it, because you know the technical part of it is a thing, you gotta learn how to do the board, like it was a while ago, so it wasn't like now, it was like before technology, so I have to do it, And I was scared about doing the boards.

That was the major concern. I'm like, how do I do the boards and speak? How do I do, how do I do commercials and do this? Like, how do you do this? But I did it. And I remember someone calling in because it was a call in radio show. And we talked about topics in the community. And this person just, I just remember him saying really nice things like, Oh my God, I like this, I like what you're saying, I like your vibe or whatever.

And I'm like, Oh my God, it's not bad. It's actually okay. But that's when I realized, okay, I guess I have a voice. I guess people like this part cause you were scared. I was scared. I was like really scared. I'm like, how do I do all three things? And it's just me, but I did it.

And then I just use the same skills. I don't even think I use those skills to be a podcaster to be quite honest. I just think I just talk. Okay. I just talk, I talk to people all the time. So it just went on thing. I, it's as seamless as that. I don't really think the reader must've had an impression or an impact, but because I like talking, as you can tell, I'm a very chatty girl.

It just easily just happens on, on, on my podcast. It's a long answer. I'm so sorry. 

[00:23:43] Ellington Brown: It was quite , interesting to say the least. I want to go back to your book, Words with Michelle. What motivated you to put this book together? 

[00:23:56] Michelle Joseph: It was a lot of things to be quite honest.

I'm not gonna give away too much because I do talk about it in the book. It was a process. It didn't, it started in, I'll say 2018. And then I'll leave it there for anyone who wants to read the book. Cause I don't want to cheat you out of reading it, but I'll just say what I will say this.

One of the reasons why I did it isn't because I'm a writer and it was always something I always wanted to do. I always want to have a book I always wanted to write a book publish a book And then I realized what I've done. I looked on my blog and I've been blogging since 2014 That's 10 years.

I will say I've been podcasting for the last four. So essentially we're blogging for six years for Words With Michelle because I don't really blog. It just houses my podcast. To be quite honest, I rarely do a post anymore. But I was looking at my work and I just thought about, and someone actually mentioned this too.

The person I mentioned is my book coach. And she mentioned that Michelle, you, I interviewed a lot of influential people, and no one knows who you are. And I'm like, oh my god, that's it didn't offend me, but I knew it was the truth. And I thought, okay, that's true. It wasn't just not knowing who I was, it was just the fact that I interviewed some really cool people.

Like, when I look at the list of the people that I've interviewed, I'm like, my mind is blown sometimes. I'm like, how did I, how did this happen? And I thought, you know what, I need to speak about these people and I, but there's a twist to my book, because it's not just these 21 changemakers, I've spoken to like over, like maybe over 60, 70 people over this time, but I used key elements from these interviews lessons about life and personal journey, and that, and I just thought about what they said, and that's how I created the book.

It was the lessons that I learned from these people, from these changemakers that created the book. So the book kind of book, it didn't write itself because I had to go through a lot. Even though I had the initial idea in 2018, it wouldn't have worked in 2018 because so many other things have happened in my life that is in the book that made the book happen.

So I'm glad that what happened in 2018, the idea, I didn't pursue it. I'm so happy. Like it was, and it's so funny. I was angry that it didn't happen in 20, not angry, but I was like upset. I was upset, but then it's so funny. I was telling someone else that this happened in 2018 and I wanted to do it and she said that was a gift that you didn't do in 2018 because none of this other stuff would have been in the book and you needed, unfortunately I needed these things not needed, but it just made it more interesting to for the book.

So I'm like, yeah, it was a gift. It was a, the no was a gift. Who knew?

[00:26:39] Rita Burke: Your story for me is truly fascinating and everything's happening in real time. 

[00:26:49] Michelle Joseph: Yeah, 

[00:26:50] Rita Burke: That's what's fascinating. And as you talked about finding your voice, I'm reminded of the African National Anthem that says lift every voice and sing and you are singing away.

And I'm happy to see and hear that, Michelle Joseph. 

Now, how do you go about finding your guests for the podcast?

[00:27:13] Michelle Joseph: I love it when people ask me this. I love it because it's like, it's, all I do is DM people. So direct message, like on Instagram and anywhere. To be quite honest, it's just, I use, I primarily use Instagram.

I'm not going to lie. Because it's so easy. We use social media to your advantage. It's right there. Just hit someone off with a direct message or email them. Let me get an email. Now is old school. I love the fact that email is old school, but you can just go to the website, get their contact and send them an email.

That's how it works. It's so much easier than we think. Cause everyone always asks me, how'd you get that person? How'd you get that? I sent an email. I literally just sent an email and it's just, sometimes it's friends, maybe it's friends of friends or just, but lately I will say like literally 90%.

Instagram DMs. That's how it works. Yeah, because they can always find out about you too, because I did, I interviewed someone recently, actually, three, four months ago, and I just sent them a DM, and They took a while to respond, but they just went to my blog, checked me out, and then they said, yeah, I want to, okay, I want you to interview me, and that's how it worked.

It's so easy, because they have, my portfolio is there, there's my work, so they just want to make sure, before they say yes, let me see who she is, who is she? And then they check it out, and then they come back to me, so I'm like, okay, good. Not all the time, though, I got a lot of no's. Just let people know. I will not divulge to people who say no, but I feel like even though I've been doing it for a hot second, I've been doing this for 10 years.

No, I'm not interested. And I'm okay with that. If you're not interested, that is fine. That is completely fine. 

[00:28:52] Ellington Brown: I have to agree with you. There are trillion people out there and you can't expect for everybody to say yes, but because there's such a vast number of individuals, your chances of getting.

Yeses are greater than getting the nos. So I understand exactly where you're coming from. And because of the fact that you are dealing with different people, right? So some people are more, I would say, happier, little, maybe a little more bubbly. And then you have individuals that are I'm just going to say steady keeled.

They just, they're right here and they don't move one way or the other. So how do you balance serious topics with lighter content? 

[00:29:45] Michelle Joseph: I think the thing is, I guess you want people to be able to digest it. So you want people to be able to understand it. And because I have spoken about serious topics.

I, for myself, I've spoken about I had fibroids and I talk about my surgery and it's a heavy topic in the sense that, when I had a guest on the show, it can, it got it got really real because we both had really bad situations. mIne was really bad and hers was really bad.

I can't say it was light. I just put it out. I don't even think about creating it or making it light or digestible. I just put it out there and you take with it what you get from it. I've talked about Death in my family, I've spoken about throughout the pandemic people feeling depressed, you get out of it you don't want to make it too of a down, too much of a downer, because I still want you to be, not entertained, but I want you to feel like, okay, I got something out of this, I just don't feel like, this is too much, and, because we, you have to podcasts could be escapism.

It could be it's entertainment, right? It's entertainment and education. So the way that it goes is organic in the sense that I don't put too much thought into it. But the way I edit it, you make sure that it's still entertaining. I want you to continue to the end. And that's the thing. I want you to get something out of it.

I really want you to get something out of it, especially the one with the fibroids. That one was, I got so much feedback from that so much because it hit a lot of people, a lot of women. We know that this is prevalent in the black community or women of color. So that one was the one I had two, one about me and the one with a one, a solo show and then the one with a guest, but the solo show hit a lot of people.

It hit a lot. Cause I was telling you what I went through and how scared I was. So it, the personal raw in the sense that not really raw, but it's just in the sense that it was just the truth, it was authentic, it was real. And I think if people identified with it. 

[00:31:40] Rita Burke: On SpeakUP! International, we set out to inspire, to educate and to inform.

So it sounds to me as if. Your talk on your podcast about your health issue was very informative and people probably resonated with that story. Tell me, Michelle, tell us three words that you think your guests would use to describe Michelle Joseph. 

[00:32:10] Michelle Joseph: Friendly, chatty I'm going to say genuine. Just because I am who I am, I, there's no reason to, for me to pretend, I the people that I have on my show I like them.

There's a reason that's one of the reasons why I have you on the show. I don't have you in the show to sabotage you. I have you on the show because I like you and I want people to know about you. And the conversations are pretty real because it's how I feel. And then I'm also inspired by people too.

So they can feel it. They've they can, I would hope that people could feel that. Yes. I'm so happy to be speaking to you. Like it's really genuine. I feel it. I'm just always happy to have the conversation with someone and I'm chatting because you can tell, you can tell I'm friendly. I would say I, I want to be really warm.

So friendly and warm, because like I said, I want people to come in and have a safe space and feel good and just feel welcome. 

[00:33:02] Ellington Brown: That's the only way a podcast will actually come across to be authentic, but if you can tell when the two individuals are stuck on the stick, and they're not really interacting, it doesn't feel warm, even though the content may be very interesting, but it's cold.

So I'm not drawn to those types of conversation because of. There's no, and I'm using this word loosely, intimacy between the two parties. So I think that's really important. So how has podcasting affected your personal and professional growth? 

[00:33:43] Michelle Joseph: Personal because I've learned so much from the people that I've been in have spoken to.

They have, they either they identify things that I want to change or just learn. So yeah, like every conversation is learning. Like I learned from everybody. Every day you go out and you meet someone, you talk, you learn something. Like you take away something from every experience. So the majority of, I would say a lot of the, podcast.

I've learned everything from everyone who's ever been on the show. They've taught me something or I've learned something. That's one of the reasons why they're on the show because I like what they do and I want to learn more. So that's how they have taught me. Like it has an impact on me personally, professionally.

It just, I would hope that I've gotten better from the, from the time that I started in 2020, not knowing, just jumping in there. Like literally I did the research. I had a computer. I didn't even have a microphone at that point so I just I just jumped in, jumped into it, and I think I've gotten better and, it's just, It parlayed into a book like this has all happened like everything I did parlayed into going to the next level which is something I never thought I may have thought about like for a hot second but I never thought that would come to fruition like this.

This is like Mind blowing is mine. The book isn't mind blowing. I mean my podcast is mind blowing and I'm just grateful! 

[00:35:02] Rita Burke: It seems like things are happening organically for you. And I believe that you deserve only the best. And you are so correct when you say that you learn from everybody you interview.

When I'm done a session, I'm like a kid in a candy shop. I run up to my roommate and say, guess what? Guess what? Guess what? I learned so much. That person was so wonderful. Our people are great people. People literally pour into me. 

When you were reading at the top of the show, I sat there and I was just blessed, truthfully blessed from what you were reading.

So thank you. Now, my next question is what's the best piece of advice have you ever received? 

[00:35:51] Michelle Joseph: There's, okay, so the book is full enough, but and there's one that's hard. I can't say the best, but I'll say there's one that I use all the time. And the person doesn't even know it. He doesn't know it.

He's a person in the book, and I'm gonna tell him because it's gonna be on the show again. I wanna do a, another redo. Like I wanna do I've interviewed him like maybe five, six years ago, and I'm gonna do like an update, but he said to trust the process, whatever the process is, just trust it.

I said at the beginning, I was nervous. Because I'm normally always nervous about everything I do, but he said for him was to trust the process. And I, when you do that, you do relax because you just got to, the process will be the process. You cannot change that. You haven't, they just let whatever it is to be, so I do hear that a lot. When you're like, you're nervous about something or you've done something like, cause you're as a, I guess now I'm an entrepreneur. I guess I've always been an entrepreneur, but now I'm proudly an entrepreneur.

Like I, now I can claim that. So when you do something, go into unknown territory, you just got to trust the process. I tend to overthink a lot. I'm always overthinking. And now I realized I got to push back on that and then just go and just have the best possible outcome. Just think that the best thing is going to happen, right?

So I use that. That's, trust the process. Just trust the process. 

[00:37:10] Ellington Brown: I have to agree with you, Michelle, because I used to go to a Buddhist temple to, to learn how to meditate and become that mountain, as they say. And one thing that I learned about Buddhism is that you must go through what they call it's a Dharmagate gate.

And this Dharmagate is where you are, say like you were studying for a test. Okay. So you study, 24 hours before the test. So you're up 24 hours to cram all the information in your head. And then you're going into that room and to take that test. Going in that room to take that test, you basically you've lost control, right?

Because all of what you had control of was before you walked in that room. And that's what's considered the drama gate. So you just have to just go with the flow. Whatever is going to happen. It's going to happen. You have to go with it. So basically, I'm just agreeing with what you were saying earlier because you were saying the same thing.

Just jump in and whatever happens is going to happen and you'll deal with it on the other side. Good, bad or indifferent. And I know Rita has another question that she wants to ask you. So Rita, please go ahead. 

[00:38:39] Rita Burke: Yes. I would say this is my signature question for you. And that is, what three gems would you like to gift our listeners today?

[00:38:54] Michelle Joseph: Three gems? 

[00:38:54] Rita Burke: Like three Three, three pieces of worthy information, whatever you, what three gifts you would like to leave with our listeners?

[00:39:06] Michelle Joseph: Let me see. And this comes through like a lifetime. Sometimes you have to listen to yourself. That's one thing. You gotta, sometimes you gotta listen to yourself if you want to do something then do it.

Even though others may say not to do it. And it and it goes to what I said before, like if you do it and it doesn't work out, that's fine. Because you at least tried and that's the one thing that I realize this trying is something you got to do. If you fail, that's like failure is fine.

That's another gem is and this isn't just mine. This is stuff that, we all know, but failure is fine because you learn. Like sometimes you want to, not to fail, but you want to know what not to do. So if you do it and it doesn't work out, that's cool. Then I guess what? I won't do it next time.

I'll do something else. You know what I mean? Let me see. Another thing is patience. How could I forget this? Wow. Hello. Patience. Patience. Because I'm not a patient person, but it's funny how my patients work because I can be patient, but then I also can't be patient, but patience, just being patient, like nothing happens in a day.

It's so funny. I had a meeting yesterday with the business coach, with Karen, and she's Rome was not built in a day. And I just, and I don't know why it just, because the things you want to happen, but it's so funny. Like I said, I started my blog in 2014. 2014. And it took 10 years for this to happen.

Mind you, it was not my plan. But just looking at what I've done, I built it. And that was patience, because I built what, Words With Michelle. I built it! I built it from from that first interview. From loving it. And it wasn't even, the funny thing is, I had a blog before Words with Michelle because I, me and my friend of mine years and years ago, we started a website a webzine which, oh my God, like over 10, 15 years ago, we started that and then it parlayed into a blog.

So then I started doing the blogs portion of that webzine. And then, so from the webzine, I was doing interviews and I knew that the interviews were the most, the ones that people liked the most. And that's when I knew, even though I knew I was a natural speaker or whatever and people in employment counseling, blah, blah, blah, but I knew the interviews were the thing that I was getting known for.

So that's why Words With Michelle happened. Words With Michelle was not even the original name. It had so many other different names that I was going to call it. And then my friend came up, my friend Christine is the one who said Words With Michelle. It was going to be called Michelle Interviews, Michelle Chronicles, something like that.

No one knows that. So this is you got that. No one knows the name. That was literally what's going to call it. Michelle Chronicles or Michelle interviews. And then we just randomly had a conversation and she's like, where's with Michelle? I'm like, and that's how I got born. She's the one who told me the name.

And then we went with, I ran with it and then it just became words of Michelle. And then I just, it's an interview based blog. If you go to, if you go to it, there were some that aren't interviews, but it's pretty much heavy on interviews. And that's, That was the one thing that I knew I was known for.

Someone actually did mention it to me years ago. He wanted me to write for his publication and he said that he liked the way that my interviews went. So that's why he wanted me to work for him. So I was like, all right, that's cool. I like my interviews too. I liked the experience of it.

Like I like writing it too. It was always fun after I met someone to write. Start writing about the what it was like meeting them because as I was at the beginning and it was about why I wanted to meet them. You know what I mean? It wasn't a straight on interview. It's like, why I wanted, I want, I'm not interviewing you just because you're like you're new or you did something.

It's, there's a reason why, you know, because beyond what you're doing right now, it's I like this person. I want to see what they're like. And I talk about the situation when we actually met, because there's always this story where when we met. Like either going to the cafe or going meeting them wherever is there's always a story before the story.

So I like to write about that. 

[00:42:52] Ellington Brown: Michelle, it has been a pleasure talking with you this morning. I can't believe how the time has flown by. You are such an interesting individual to, to talk to, we talked a little bit about your personal background, how you transitioned, how your podcast developed a little bit about your content creation, I thought was really great. And also you did talk a little bit about your guest selection how do you pick guests for your podcast, and also the impact and growth part of your podcast and how it dates back to another interview process that you were, that you and a friend were conducting to bring you to where you are today.

And so we thank you so much and when you write your next book or you happen to turn the page to a new chapter in life, please come back. We would definitely love to hear it, to experience it vicariously through your story. Rita, do you have something you want to add to that? 

[00:44:13] Rita Burke: Except that words cannot express the delight that I'm experiencing from having you on SpeakUP! International.

Thank you, and as Elton said, you can invite yourself back whenever you are ready. I'm glad that you spoke with us. 

[00:44:30] Michelle Joseph: I had so much fun because I understand. I love this. I am a chatty person, but like I said, I'm shy, but chatty. This was awesome. This was so much. Yeah, I'm coming back.

I do want to write another book. Because of an interview. I, There were a few interviews after the fact that I've done recently, and I love these people, and I really want them in a book. I don't have the idea for the book, so just keep this in mind, but there is another book that I'd like to work on.

But I'm gonna, I'm just gonna just enjoy this moment with this book, because this book is still very new. It's only been out, not even for a month. I enjoy it, and so yeah, there'll be a next book. So I'll be back on your show, because I like talking to you guys. You guys are fun. I love this. I love it so much.

We have fun too! 

[00:45:12] Ellington Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact Ms. Michelle Joseph, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Ms. Joseph at https://wordswithmichelle.com/. Ms. Joseph has other social media accounts you can use to connect to her that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms. 

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At SpeakUP! International, we aim to inspire to inform, and to educate.