Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome to Speak Up International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:16

Even though we crisscross the world to find community builders to have our conversations with and speak up international, it's always warm and fuzzy and comfortable to be talking to one of our own Canadians. Our guest today is in Ottawa and his name is Kwesi Otu. He's a father of a four-year-old who was raised in Ottawa. He began his professional journey in radio, but has since transitioned from media to social services. Crazy has worked with unhoused youth and adults and led digital campaigns and audio projects. He holds a degree in history and philosophy and also studied interactive media management. In Kwesi's professional work, he encourages individuals to rise above societal narratives that foster helplessness. To our listeners on Speak Up International, I introduce Mr Kwesi Otu. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:36

Thank you, rita. Thank you, elton, I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:41

Right back at you. It's been quite a while before we were able to pull this together, so I know that this conversation is going to be worth it. Everything starts from somewhere background and your heritage and you have Sierra I can't even say that Grenadian roots, and so you were raised in the South End of Ottawa. So I want to know oh yeah, and you have a four year old daughter. So how being a father to a four year old daughter influenced your views of empowerment and resilience, both personally and in your work?

Speaker 3: 2:30

I think of this example. This happened just the other day. She was attempting to get on her coat my daughter attempting to get on her coat, she's struggling, she's getting frustrated, attempting to get under the coat. She's struggling, she's getting frustrated. And I keep asking do you need me to help you? No, I don't need help, I'm like okay. So I'm watching her as she's managing and struggling through this process and putting the coat on and zipping it up. And it was only she eventually got it.

Speaker 3: 3:03

But it was only a week later that I was like, ah, these are the types of micro moments that are the seeds for many other things in our experience.

Speaker 3: 3:17

Right, does somebody go through a situation where they're struggling with something. They are offered assistance it might be well-meaning and maybe they need it at a certain point in time and then other moments where they'd rather just do it themselves, fight through it, struggle through it and then do some piecing together of the puzzle, some problem solving, some piecing together of the puzzle, some problem solving and get it done themselves. And now in my professional journey, I guess I'm jumping ahead. But now in my professional experience, I'm in a position where every day I have to navigate. Am I facilitating the space where people can access resources, access information, professional development, personal development, whether it's counseling. I create a space where resources and information are provided. People take that information, take those resources, build upon them, explore them and come to their own understanding of what they need to do to progress. Versus the hand-holding, going back to the oh, I'll just put your coat on for you and zip it up to my four-year-old daughter. These are the things I grapple with every single day working in my role in social service.

Speaker 3: 4:45

And I'll also say my parents are a Ghanian and Sierra Leonean. That's the background.

Speaker 2: 4:53

That's the background. Do you know that story that you told about your daughter who said to you no, I don't need your help? Reminds me of a story someone once told me. He has a bit of a disability and people are always flocking around him wanting to do things for him. And he said to them I may need help, but I'm not helpless. And there's a huge difference, there, isn't it? You may need a little bit of help, but he's not helpless. And I think maybe that's the message he was sending. I will ask for help when I need it, thank you, and I think that's a good way to start one's life with a little bit of independence. I like that. Now let's talk a little bit about your professional journey, which your bio says you started in radio. So explain why and how this came about. How and why did you start in radio?

Speaker 3: 5:57

I started in radio and my interest in music goes all the way back to the very beginning of life. I was trained at the Royal Conservatory Records, in the house vinyl, in the house, cassettes, afrobeat music, funk, soul, jazz, rock. I would explore hip hop on my own, down tempo, new jazz, electronic music, acid jazz. I was very much into music and I was somebody who in school, when CDs and I guess the early pirating of music came to be so burning CDs, downloading music off of Napster, burning mixtapes for people and just things I was finding that I was interested in. When I got to Mount Allison University and they had what they called explore a club, join a club, join some kind of organization, and they had all of these. It was like in an auditorium and there were all these tables of information being passed out and most of the tables were packed, but the one table that there were, a few, one of the tables that had little attention was the radio, the community radio station. So I went there and just signed up and this is now circling all the way back to the very first story that I said. I'm just thinking, I'm just making these connections in my mind. I was circling all the way back to the very first story that I said. I'm just making these connections with my mind. I was given no formal training on radio. So they said okay, sign up, these are the available slots. Now, in that particular town, when they showed you the calendar of these are the available open radio slots, it was wide open. I could just pick any time, any day. So I just jumped in and they said, yeah, if you want to have two shows, you can have two shows. If you want to have three, you can have three. Just do your thing.

Speaker 3: 8:17

And for the next four years I just pretty much taught myself the FM broadcasting process. There were no best practices at all. I was really just presenting interesting music that I was finding A lot of UK-centric electronic music and funk and soul and instrumental hip-hop. I really enjoyed the ability to express myself creatively. It sounds cliche, but really I was just given. It was like a blank canvas Just do whatever you want and present music to people, and I really took it seriously. It was a really meaningful period of life that whole getting into FM radio. This is like right before. I think that very same year Twitter was introduced. The year before that, facebook was released to the world. I was building this radio show on top of these early social media platforms and now to flash forward and to see that the paradigm is now podcasting and live streaming and YouTube channels and all of these things. You never know where, at different points in your journey, you never really understand where it's going to progress to and how being an early adopter is beneficial.

Speaker 1: 9:47

I want to go back to your daughter and you talked about. Dad wants to help you with putting your coat on and she's not having it. No, I can do this on my own. How has your daughter helped you, who is a trainer and I know this because I've seen so many announcements from you about training on God knows how many different facets how has your daughter helped you to become a better trainer?

Speaker 3: 10:30

the patients independent, independent, yeah, the the patients.

Speaker 3: 10:33

In my more thoughtful moments and moments of self-reflection and introspection, I understand that I can be impatient, so I want things to happen as efficiently as possible right now, and in that, in those moments of impatience, I understand that it's not about being quote unquote smarter.

Speaker 3: 11:03

I'm trying not to sound pretentious, but the point is, sometimes when I'm somebody who becomes very fixated on certain information and certain things that I'm learning and I really study them, research them and come to an understanding of their usefulness in a way that is not necessarily the norm for everybody, to answer the question, my daughter has retaught me patience and not taking for granted that there is a learning process to everything. You teach something, turn over again, there might be mistakes, or somebody might grasp a concept, or they might not even really need to see you much, in the sense of I work with people who I meet them one time and they're off to the races versus others who they really need to engage, engage a little bit more over and over to impart certain information or resources upon them, and so my daughter has taught me that it's almost like how to be a fresh-eyed, open-minded child again. It's another cliche thing, but it's very true. Once you're in that position, it's very true, you really understand it.

Speaker 2: 12:30

I so agree with you. I so agree with you Having children around you. If you are willing to be introspective but they force you to be introspective you will learn lots of lessons about yourself and about your interactions that you didn't know. My daughter was about seven years old, maybe a little younger, when she said to me Mom, it's not what you're saying, it's your tone, and I didn't like it. I did not like her telling me that, but when I pulled myself away, she was right. She was right. I didn't like it, but she was right. So they teach you lessons if you are willing to learn, and that helps you to be a better person in this world. Now you moved from media, from radio, to social services. Talk about what brought about this change, this metamorphosis, so to speak.

Speaker 3: 13:43

Some of it boils down to practicality, so I'll jump in a bit further. Up until between the years of 2011, 12, 13, 14, and 15, I made a very serious attempt at turning what is essentially volunteering a hobby almost of broadcasting and radio into something like a full-time paying position. So I was doing all sorts of things. I was doing audio engineering, I was hosting events, I was live streaming events, I was interviewing people and doing ads for people, and it wasn't sustainable. At least not at that time. It wasn't sustainable. And around that same time, how did it go? 2014, 15. In 2015, I saw an ad for a job posting at one of the local shelters, one of the big three homeless shelters in the city so it's the Salvation Army downtown and that role allowed me to use some of my radio experience into the kind of conventional nine to five world, and so that was really the. That was where the I don't want to say fork in the road. But that's when I realized, okay, I'm going to have to leave behind, or at least keep the radio and the broadcasting and the music and the live streaming and all that as a hobby and at least to come to use some of these transferable skills to at least help the community. It was a decision of I need to gain a steady income. That's really what it was. I need to gain a steady income. A steady income, that's really what it was. I needed to gain a steady income, but I didn't want to feel like a disappointment because I supposedly failed in broadcasting. Now I have to seek a real job. So I really grappled with it and I said, okay, I can transfer some of these skills to social services.

Speaker 3: 16:21

It started with one shelter and then I just started to move into different, similar types of roles Youth shelters there was a church that had a youth drop-in program and I was working there. I was doing tutoring, I was doing online tutoring and I'm really jumping through some of these roles because there were elements of broadcasting communicating. I also went to Algonquin College for this short postgraduate program called Interactive Media Management, where I was like, okay, yes, I have this audio engineering or radio experience. How can I develop websites or motion graphics or ads or visuals, so that it's a more multidimensional type of media experience, and so I was using that as a way to make inroads into social services. I was doing digital ads for the Catholic Center for Immigrants. I was doing similar things for the Alliance to End Homelessness, different nonprofits, and I just kept doing that until I found myself in a role where I was a facilitator for what they call the Intermittent Community Work Program for Substance Use. Intermittent community work program for substance use.

Speaker 3: 17:47

Basically, the point is people are charged with impaired driving. They go to court. The judge says either you go to jail or whatever the repercussions are, the consequences are, or you go take a course with this guy. And so I would do group facilitation. But I had to add something like a curriculum that the court said I had to teach and then I could just go off script and talk about whatever with them. So it's only as you get further along I know I'm early in my journey, but I'm saying that every year, every two years, I look back and I'm like, okay, I see where the logical step and the logical progression was in the metamorphosis, how it all makes sense In the moment. You're just doing things. As time goes on you start to make connections.

Speaker 1: 18:39

Yeah, some of the key challenges that you encountered while working with individuals struggling with substance abuse, which you mentioned earlier. And then, how did you navigate within those challenges, because they can be quite emotionally draining.

Speaker 3: 19:00

They were and, to be honest, I experienced and I still am, but at the time I was so very passionate for working in social services I didn't think I would experience burnout or compassion fatigue, and it happened right around 2020, 2021 with the pandemic. The only way I was able to navigate it was by my roles becoming almost entirely online. So, whereas I had to physically show up in an environment where I'm engaging with people with these issues and you're internalizing it, you're seeing the tragedy, you're hearing the story over and over again, I was able to my roles became more online focused, and that was the one one of the saving graces of that period of time, with lockdown, et cetera. Now, as far as dealing with it on an emotional, personal level, it's still difficult. It's still very difficult. It's still very difficult, to be honest.

Speaker 2: 20:22

We're talking with Kwezi Otu, who is currently in Ottawa, and I'll have you know that I'm touched by the fact that you're talking about feelings, about compassion fatigue, because very often that's not a place that men go about feelings. So thank you for sharing that. So tell us how your philosophy has evolved over the years.

Speaker 3: 20:54

Yeah. So this ties with the very first question. When you enter social services and you understand the historical challenges different groups of people and populations have faced, there is an element of for lack of a better expression I want to save people. I want to save my people or help save my people or save the world, and it's a very naive way of looking at it. I think that naivete comes at various ages. I think people can get into this field in their late 50s and have that same attitude as somebody who's 20, getting into the field, coming out of school. So there's this theoretical okay, this is how we can change these systems. There's the theoretical okay, this is how we can change these systems. And then the truth is the only way you can really empower people, the best gift and tool you can give to people is the ability for them to navigate these systems themselves. There's even a whole role that's been developed, called Systems Navigator, where this is how you navigate these various social services and in the end, you should be able to navigate your way out of it. Right, you shouldn't be caught in the cycle of going in and out of this shelter or this agency or accessing this service. At some point. One needs to be empowered to make decisions that will allow them to solve if not totally solve, largely solve some of these problems.

Speaker 3: 22:40

I've spoken of the handholding that I think social services can perpetuate. But then there are individuals who have a philosophy of how can we? The best phrase is you're supposed to work yourself out of a job, right? You don't want your job to be, for example, if you are a, if you're working in, whether it's homelessness or addictions, you don't want your role to be, 50 years from now, it still exists because the problem is still there or getting worse. And that's how I look at my role. Right? Somebody shouldn't need to come to me and see me over and over again. My physiotherapist says the same thing. The point is you have six or seven appointments and then you should be able to do these exercises yourself. You should move on. The psychotherapist will say the same thing. I really hope you don't have to come here forever. That's my approach now is access these resources for a certain amount of time, certain amount of time, and then move on If you can. If you can't, then we're still here.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Wow, that was a whole lot to consume, a little crazy. I want to go back to something that you said helping individuals to navigate. How would you address the statement policies? Navigate how would you address the statement policies? They weren't meant for us, they were not designed for Black people. So how does that make your job, I'll just say, interesting? To help people navigate through policies that were not written with us in mind policies that were not written with us in mind.

Speaker 3: 24:28

Yeah, it's increasingly difficult. One observation that I have is currently there's a disconnect between what the reality is for Black people all over the world, in the diaspora, what they're still being sold as the so-called Canadian dream and what they experience when they land here, when they arrive here, when they're seeking employment, when they're seeking housing. There's a disconnect between these policies and whatever the marketing that is that exists elsewhere in the world. And this is what I'll say is, when I hear black people say that maybe I should have, maybe I should have stayed in wherever the country of origin was and not to look at them and not to say no. If that's how you feel, maybe you're right. Who am I to tell you no or yes? Right? In this current time, it seems that our people are being thrown under the bus, being used for talking points, for figureheads and individuals who will weaponize our presence against other populations or other demographics within the larger society. I don't know if that answers the question, but that's what came to mind. That's what came to mind.

Speaker 1: 26:29

That definitely answers my question. And just to add to that point, when you talk about weapon, they feel it's an unfair advantage to have this system in place, and it really does not include everyone, but in more cases than not it does, because it's about marginalized individuals. And so when you put it on that platform, marginalized individuals can be any color, it can be black, brown, but it seems that the focus is on black people, brown people, using this vehicle in order to get ahead. That's all I wanted to say. I just had to say that if I didn't say that, I would have choked and died.

Speaker 3: 27:33

No, this brings me to almost another, almost seemingly contradictory point is that I noticed so I speak of the very recent newcomers who are struggling. But then, when I also look at Black people who've been here for quite some time, their ability to, even though the systems and the policies weren't written for them, through this acknowledgement of DEI are able to, and through education, for all of the bashing of post-secondary education, the debt that it brings, and so on and so forth, it is very much the vehicle for Black people across the diaspora to propel themselves further along. And so there are still, there's still a, there's a ceiling that can be experienced. But when they want to dismantle some of these newer policies because not just black people but other people are able to use it to further themselves, it's clear. It's clear why it's clear.

Speaker 2: 28:49

It's clear why I hear you when you talk of the disconnect and when you really stand back and look at the world and look at life. There's so many paradoxes that we've been able to break down some walls and open some doors. I'm not saying it's sufficient by any means, but do you know what? We had our arms tied behind our backs. We had our legs shackled and look how far we've come. I'm not saying it's enough, but I'm saying there's hope. Yes, I'm saying there's hope, yeah. And in your bio crazy you said that you refer to proactive approach to life challenges. Talk about that proactive approach to life challenges please.

Speaker 3: 29:56

So number one this somewhat ties to what we were just talking about, but when somebody is facing the challenge of whether it's lack of employment, whether whatever the system is that people are battling, I think there tends to be a. The immediate go-to is I am not progressing, because whatever the is and is, for example, I'm not progressing because of racism. I internalized that message at different points in my own life and as it stands right now and I'm very careful when I say this, depending on the room now, and I'm very careful when I say this, depending on the room Right now I try as little as possible to think about racism, whether it's actually happening or whether it's not. I literally just push through, whatever the situation might be. Or that's the messaging that I give to people that if you are starting from a position of my circumstances can't change because of racism. I'm not going to get a job because of racism. I won't get housing because of racism. When I go to the store, there's bound to be some sort of interaction that's going to prove that racism exists.

Speaker 3: 31:25

You not the sound too? In the self-help world they talk about this type of thing a lot, but it's like you find what you're looking for right. Like you, you are going to find confirmation of these fears, and so when I say proactive, for me it's about deprogramming oneself from these narratives that are constantly being shown to us. So it sounds simple, but the elimination of doom scrolling and endless news consumption. I don't mean be totally uninformed. I'm saying you must limit and control the information that you consume. One quote that I heard is you are the algorithm, so we know that when you're on YouTube or whatever it is, whatever the platform is, when you start searching for certain things over and over again, that is what gets. Or even if you engage with something for a few extra seconds, you're training the algorithm to then suggest these things to you. And that's in one arena. In another arena, if we are able to deprogram ourselves from consuming different types of information and proactively seek out the opportunity wherever the opportunity may be, I think of individuals I know who have struggles with organizing their thoughts for whatever reason, whether it's a diagnosis or they just haven't developed the ability to organize their thoughts in a clear manner.

Speaker 3: 33:07

Whereas somebody is looking at the mainstreamification of generative AI, as this is going to somehow take everybody's jobs, there are people who are looking at wait a minute. This is a tool that can now help me organize my thoughts, can plan, can organize better. I can almost rant in a stream of consciousness into this tool and organize these things for me. So my point is, whenever I'm trying, I guess there's a particular question that you, there's a particular point you told me to ponder and I want to get to this too, but I don't want to jump too far ahead. But whenever there is a challenge it is important to look at, is there any opening here where I can, whether it's, for example, job loss? Can I retrain?

Speaker 3: 34:05

Okay, somebody's housing has become far too expensive. Okay, do I need to take a step back and live with my parents for a while? Do I need to take a step back and split a room with somebody? Do I need to take a step back? Do I need to start looking at my bank account and say, okay, there's whatever the random expenses. This shows up 15 times and it's $4 each time. Eliminate this. Okay, up 15 times and it's $4 each time. Eliminate this. Okay, I am taking Uber all the time. For example, can I now invest in a better pair of shoes and walk more? There's always something that can be done to alleviate some of the stress and pressure, and it's not always easy to see these things in the moment, but I think it's important to look at life this way.

Speaker 1: 34:56

We see, one of the things I know about you is that you do give back to the community. You really, you really do, and I remember seeing several announcements where you were asking for young adults to come learn how to put together your resume, learn how to present yourself at a job interview. I think you even mentioned some organizations that were actually looking for summer help. So how does that make you feel, based on the rewards, and can you speak a little bit about the rewards please?

Speaker 3: 35:41

I believe that this is part of when you're living in a collective, when you're looking at collective well-being, the collective good, and giving back. There are many times where I've had to look at accessing a resource or a service and whether it proved to be beneficial or not. The fact that somebody pointed me towards that could be a game changer For me. When I am constantly sharing this type of information or pointing people toward these opportunities and providing these sorts of trainings. The rewards are it's as simple as when you get an email or a text down the line that says, hey, this thing you taught me, and for me it's a very small minute, part of the overall training or the overall advice I'm giving, whatever, but this very small thing that you said actually allowed me to. I won't go as far to say get a job, but I'll say get a job interview or get a call back. Right, these types of rewards are you don't want to pat yourself on the back at all, right? Because again, when you're looking at collective well-being, somebody helps somebody else. I help you, I assist you, I guide you or point you towards some resources. You do the same for me. We all do this collectively.

Speaker 3: 37:15

The second part of your question. Remind me again. You're the second part.

Speaker 1: 37:20

Two things. One was performing the service and the rewards that you get from seeing these young adults actually taking what you've taught them and using it.

Speaker 3: 37:35

When you're performing the service, I believe sometimes I might lose sight of what the outcome or the end result might be. I think sometimes you get bogged down and it might be, to be honest, you feel cynical or pessimistic toward what the value is. However, when you see that people have become empowered or they've gained a new piece of information or they now understand a new tool, that is, it is eye-opening and it is rewarding. But when you're caught up in the day-to-day and the day-to-day administrative part of things Not everybody is an administrator or nothing you want to create these binaries, but I tend to lean more towards being a creative than an administrator and I have had to learn the administrative part of things to the point where I'm super efficient on it now.

Speaker 3: 38:44

But in the day-to-day you get bogged down with that and you lose sight of the outcome. And so to hear weeks and months later that somebody has, they've accessed a tool, a resource, they've gained a job interview or they've even reassessed certain things in their life and they're going to go in a totally different direction. They might pick up and move talents in order to seek better opportunity. As long as you're planting seeds, I think that's important the planting of seeds.

Speaker 2: 39:21

So that means that you're planting seeds, and your proactive philosophy to help and to support other people to thrive because that's what I hear you saying will certainly make our ancestors proud of what you're doing. Now tell me, was there ever?

Speaker 3: 39:56

a time when you had to say enough, yes, yes and the enough. I've had to say enough to taking home work, but not necessarily paper right, like it's taking in the stories, ruminating all day, ruminating all evening about this story that I heard or something that went wrong during the day, or, oh, I messed up this part of the process. I must, I need to fix this tomorrow. And thinking about the issues and the problems and how can this be challenged, how can I tackle this differently next time? And you just start to ruminate. I'm somebody who might lean towards overthinking at times, so it's easy for me to start thinking about on the drive home in bed, when I wake up, when I'm drinking coffee, just start to think about different parts of the social services, the social services experience, and you take there's a lot of emotional weight that comes with that. So why did I have to say enough? Because I started to realize that the playtime with my daughter was affected. I'm ruminating and I'm not as energetic in the playtime, in the fake tea party or the fake we're playing with dolls and I'm just. My mind is wandering a little bit and I remember this one time.

Speaker 3: 41:26

Now, going back to something you said earlier, rita, my daughter was like Dada, you're being a grump. And I stopped and I'm like, wow, I'm being a grump. That's not good. So this is what I started to say. I had to say, okay, I need to, and it's difficult, right, because in this field, there's a lot of emotions involved, there's a lot of sadness and stories, and there's a lot of happiness too, but I really turn it off. The switch goes off. I walk out the door of the office and I turn it off, and then, when I get in the morning, I turn it back on, rather than constantly having it on and on and replaying things over and over again.

Speaker 2: 42:11

That's what the experts say. The difference between empathy and sympathy is people who empathize could switch off people who sympathize cannot. So at least you've moved. You know now how to empathize, and I guess you need to do a lot of that in the field that you're in. Yes, 100%.

Speaker 1: 42:34

Speaking of the field that you're in, there's one area I know that you lean into.

Speaker 3: 42:40

I know what's coming.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Wait, this is not a bad thing.

Speaker 2: 42:47

I think I know what's coming too.

Speaker 1: 42:49

So it's you exploring Web3. You're really into Web3 and machine learning.

Speaker 2: 43:00

I noticed.

Speaker 1: 43:01

One time I think it was you you were talking about how progress is made. I think it was a video showing the transportation system in South Africa, how efficient they're able to get this thing up and running and how far advanced they are when you compare between Africa and us up here in the North. And so talk a little bit about this Web3 phenomenon.

Speaker 3: 43:37

So for me, the thing that stands out for me with the Web3 phenomenon is the moving away from these centralized, moving from centralization to decentralization. Rather than having these sort of central, these central bodies that are into us, the flow of information, resources, assets, and having to constantly for us to have to interact with a central body, we can now. It's similar to what's happening now. So, rather than having to worry about am I going to be on the CBC or on CNN, we can now do this where we are, where you have a podcast, I have a radio show, we're doing this, we're streaming, we're doing this in a decentralized fashion, With social media being Web 2, being that what the social media platform is, that paradigm and how that was brought about.

Speaker 3: 44:47

With Web3 and with what I see with AI and how one can efficiently use, there's always an existential, there's always an element of people feeling an existential threat. Whenever there's an introduction of new technology, technology and I look at what's happening now with Web3 cryptocurrency, blockchain, non-fungible tokens, decentralized servers, decentralized social media Similar to the introduction. I'm still young, but I still do remember a time when pre-internet and post-internet and how the internet is now so commonplace right, we use this. It's very much the oxygen of our society. If, whenever, the internet goes down, if it goes down, everybody's at a loss, right? And this next phase of technology with what we're experiencing now.

Speaker 3: 46:01

There was a big to-do about the introduction of things like ChatGPT and Google Bard and Jumbo and I and these various AI platforms, and I would say that it's almost. It's a day-to-day tool now that doesn't have the same level of fanfare where people have to have these think pieces and articles. I contributed to that too, but it's a day-to-day tool now. It's something that we use without even thinking much about many people.

Speaker 1: 46:34

Some people don't even know they're using it and they call themselves putting up some type of resistance to using it. Most products now either they're using it or they've been upgraded to take it on.

Speaker 3: 46:54

For example, if somebody looks back in their day-to-day and they think of these various like when somebody has to access customer service via a bank or the telephone company and you're not talking to a customer service rep when you're engaging with that. This is a very simple example that chatbot that everybody uses. When you say you go to TELUS or Bell and you're accessing customer service, you think you're talking to somebody, but you're not. You never were. It was a chatbot, right? Yeah, there's all these little ways that people have been using AI and the database. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2: 47:32

I agree totally, and you said that you're still young. But do you know, when we talk about dei and that inclusion thing, do you know how many people are left out of the circle because of that advanced technology? And so perhaps when we meet again, that's one of the things we could talk about, because I know a lot of people who are 50 and above and they are stuck. It's learning a new language, not easy for them. But here's my next question, mr Kwesi, if you were to talk with a group of graduating, let's say, black students from one of the universities in Ottawa or wherever across Canada, what three gems would you want to leave with them?

Speaker 3: 48:37

with them. I would say, first of all, they should allow themselves. Allow yourself to be alone with your own thoughts. So we are increasingly being demanded or having our attention demanded at all times. There's constant seeking of engagement, interaction, demanding jobs. What is a nine to five now when you have a smartphone that is commanding you log on or check the email from seven in the morning and people fall into this. So my advice is allow yourself to be alone with your own thoughts, with no music. I know that's hard even for me to say that, but no music, no podcast. Literally, I drive out to somewhere that is some kind of whether it's a conservation area or be alone in nature and allow yourself to just think and think about the internal script and dialogue. Allow yourself to be with your own thoughts. Do not allow for internal voices to just infiltrate. That's one.

Speaker 3: 49:40

Two consume less news. Focus on your own journey. Okay, so the endless consumption of news, the sensationalism, the negativity, the anxiety inducing headlines that are often designed just for that purpose to keep getting engagement. So consuming less news, not to be totally misinformed, but consume less news and focus on your own journey, your own self-development, your own personal development, your own goals and what you can control in your space and in your community. Okay, that's number two.

Speaker 3: 50:27

Number three would be somewhat connected to point one. Even though you should embrace solitude, you need a network of like-minded peers, not to be an echo chamber, but you need a network of like-minded peers and people who understand your vision or your way of thinking, your way of seeing things, your vision or your way of thinking, your way of seeing things. So do not become entirely a hermit. Have a network of people, mentors, peers, definitely mentors. They are underappreciated. People need mentors and people who have gone down a certain path or pursued a goal or gone on a journey who can then guide you and give you a heads up of what to expect. So that would be number three.

Speaker 1: 51:26

Your background is in history and philosophy. Background is in history and philosophy. So how has this training influenced your approach to social services career and when you're into your media work?

Speaker 3: 51:45

So I it lends to when it assists me in my bigger picture thinking. Okay, I made that point about the being a creative versus being an administrator. I think one of the differences there are that a creative is often a big picture vision. What's the larger scope of the idea here, and that's great, so that's a very good thing to have. However, it's also made me realize that there are all these little details that sometimes you need to focus on, and so what I've learned is that I'm not to sound grandiose, but sometimes you can be such a big picture thinker that you're not really focused on detail, and it took me, reflecting on that background that education, to understand that about myself. There's a reason why somebody may gravitate towards a discipline like history or philosophy or other liberal arts, other areas of liberal arts. You tend to look at things in the big picture fashion.

Speaker 1: 53:09

I have to agree with you on that. This conversation has been refreshing. We really just settled into many areas of your life in terms of balancing diverse roles fatherhood, media, social services, emerging technologies, exploring technology W I can't even remember the thing now something W3, and social impact, which I think is extremely important, and the fact that you really give a lot of your time, body and soul to helping members of our communities get a solid footing so that they can be successful at whatever it is that they decide to do. That's no one's job but their own. So I want to thank you very much this afternoon for having this conversation with us and when you write that book, which I know you will, we want to be the first to have a conversation with you. You know how to get in contact with us. Please do, because we want to be able to say that we had at least one of the first 10 people to interview. You had to talk about that book that you write, new Britain, and you have a great afternoon.

Speaker 3: 54:44

Thank you, I will send you a copy.

Speaker 2: 54:49

And be sure to include the three gems. As you were speaking and sharing your three gems, I thought this is the making of a book. This is the making of a book. So thank you so very much.

Speaker 3: 55:02

Yes, Thank you, it's been a great conversation.

Speaker 1: 55:07

Speak Up International is moving toward helping individuals create their book through having these types of conversations, because the technology actually leans into that. But a perfect example is the fact that you can transcribe these conversations. So why not take these transcriptions and turn them into books? You've already all the information is there. It's a word doc. I mean, just go with that, and I know that was a shameless plug.

Speaker 3: 55:44

I know?

Speaker 1: 55:44

You know what? I don't even care, I have no shame. So I want to say thank you and I have no shame, so I want to say thank you and I'm going to end this conversation now before I put my foot further. Thank you again. So much, thank you. It was quite a delight.

Speaker 2: 56:01

Quite a delight to have this conversation with you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Thank you for listening to Speak Up International. If you wish to contact Mr Kwesi Otu, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Mr Otu at info at speakuppodcastca. Are you interested in the opportunity to be interviewed and have your cause promoted by Speak Up International? We invite you to connect to us, sending a message that includes your name, company or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Worried about your confidence as an interviewee? Don't fret. Speak Up International can provide you with the necessary training so you shine during an interview. To receive training information and a 10% discount about the Speak Up International's podcast and TPE training program, email us at info at speakuppodcastca. You can also reach us using Facebook, Instagram, twitter and LinkedIn To connect to our podcast. Use Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up International. You can also find our podcast using our web address wwwspeakuppodcastca. Our logo has the woman with her finger pointing up, mouth open, speaking up.

Speaker 1: 57:53

By joining Patreon, we can offer you an exclusive opportunity to become an integral part of the continued success of our podcast. Your financial support will enable us to cover the costs associated with producing high-quality content, such as equipment upgrades, hosting fees and professional editing services. As a member of our Patreon group, you will gain access to a range of exciting benefits. We are working on providing you early access to new episodes and the opportunity to suggest topics or guests for future episodes. Your contribution will not only help sustain the continuity of the podcast, but also allow us to enhance the overall listening experience for all of our dedicated followers. Help us, help you. Wwwpatreoncom. Forward slash. Speak up international. At speak up exclamation point international, we aim to inspire, to inform and to educate.