Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Speak Up International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:12

On Speak Up International, we crisscrossed the globe to find individuals that we consider to be community builders. Today, there's no exception. We will be speaking with a gentleman who is from Canada. His name is Richard Pinnock, and he is a senior leader with specific expertise in diversity management, strategic planning and community outreach. He was the former director of the Post-Secondary Education Quality Assessment Board and a soft skills trainer for a youth in policing program. There's so much more that I would like to say about Richard Pinnock, but, as on Speak Up International, we prefer if our guests tell their own stories, and so today I welcome Mr RichardP. It's a beautiful day outside.

Speaker 1: 1:19

I'm sure there are hundreds of places you could think of to be, but you chose to be with us and we are definitely grateful. I'd like to start near the beginning with your parents who they are and where do you live Sure thing.

Speaker 3: 1:43

So again I want to say thanks for the great opportunity to join you and Rita and thank you for the work that you do. It's great that you can use this technology and capture these conversations and share them with others, so I appreciate the opportunity. So my parents I was born in Montreal. My mom actually is German heritage. She survived World War II, came to Canada as a youngster about 17 years old I believe and she had this idea that she wanted to get involved with different people. In Germany. At the time there was a lot of problems going on. Her and two of her girlfriends decided they were going to take this adventure and come to Canada.

Speaker 3: 2:25

So my dad is of Jamaican heritage. He came to Florida through what was called a student program. Essentially he was the oldest child and at around age 15 or 16, he went to Florida to pick oranges and so on at the various plantations. My dad wanted to be a boxer. Back in the day with Sonny Liston and people like that, he made his way to New York City, worked as a dishwasher, finally made his way to Montreal where he had a sister. He got involved in the pug boxing, practicing with the more accomplished fighters and he eventually met my mom and she suggested that it's time to get like a real job. So he started his career working on CNR, which then became Via Rail.

Speaker 3: 3:14

I was actually born in down by Atwater Market, was baptized in the Union United Church, baptized by Reverend Est, who's very iconic. Many of the black porters and sleeping car conductors congregated around that area. These were called gentlemen of the railway In many cases, all sorts of different skills and so on. But this was an opportunity to get a steady job, get a pension, join a union and that kind of thing. So that was the number one destination for a lot of members of the Black community.

Speaker 3: 3:47

So after I was born we moved to Chamonix-la-Valle, which is on the south shore sorry, the north shore of Montreal, and that's where I grew up in a very diverse environment. Our neighbors were all different. We had a Jewish neighbor, a few houses down immediately, mixed with some British. We had Egyptian Greeks right next to us and then and so on. So we I grew up with a number of friends playing hockey and baseball and that kind of thing. So it was very, very diverse, very dynamic. It was what I thought was going to be the future of Canada. That is a very multicultural environment, yeah, so that really made a big impression. I got a chance to learn all the different cultures. One of my best friends is Japanese, another one's Ukrainian, so the various foods and the culture and the language has always been a very positive impact on me and my life and my life Sounds to me as if the inclusion was done unintentionally, but it happened when you were growing up there.

Speaker 2: 4:54

That is inclusion in itself. So you've had the opportunity to implement creative diversity and inclusion strategies. Please help us understand what those strategies look like, sound like and feel like.

Speaker 3: 5:15

Please world right now, this whole area of DEI and people are saying these expressions go woke, go broke, and all of this stuff. There's a lot of backlash coming from the US. The diversity, equity and inclusion focus has been politicized and polarized. So it's very unfortunate, but I think it comes back, rita, what you were saying, how it feels. So let me share my. I have a little story here. I went through.

Speaker 3: 5:47

My parents didn't have much of an education. By the time I was in grade five I basically surpassed our educational attainment so I was on my own. I was the first in our immediate family to graduate from high school. I went on to get my bachelor's degree at McGill University and then MBA at York University, now SULIC. So education part of on both sides. Education was always drilled in like you got to get your education right. It was always very important.

Speaker 3: 6:12

Wasn't it funny that I remember it was a beautiful day like today and at McGill there was very few jobs available almost no jobs. It was during recessionary times. I was fortunate. I initially wanted to be a doctor, so I had a health science background as well. I then shifted into marketing business, so there was an opportunity with a national chemical paint company and they were looking for someone to chronicle all of their different products. So when you paint a bridge it has to have a certain viscosity and a certain elasticity so that when it gets really hot, like today, the bridge is going to expand so the paint can all crack off right and then when it's 30, 40 below zero, the steel will contract Again. The paint has to have that elasticity. So this organization had many products I think there was about 450 different products and they wanted to find some that had a health science background but also a marketing background that could chronicle all of this. In those days we were putting it into binders, just to tell you how far back that goes. So I was very fortunate.

Speaker 3: 7:14

I was one of the few people that was put forward for this interview. I showed up and the lady at the door. When I entered the door she said yes, can I help you? I said I'm Richard Pinnock, I'm here for the interview from McGill university, she's okay. So she explained to me that they have this test. There's 50 questions. It's called a Wonderling assessment 50 questions, five-oh, and you have 12 minutes to complete it. So she explained it to me. She had one of those egg, those egg boiler timer things. So she said do you understand everything? And I'm like yes, I think I understand.

Speaker 3: 7:48

So she went back into her little office. She's the office manager. I sat down, I had my pen, I'm ready to go, and it's okay. She's okay, ready Go. So I'm like what, what time going Right? So she's sitting down, 11 minutes go by. I knock on her door and she looks up and she's what did this guy not understand? I don't understand. Like I thought it was clear. And she goes yes, and I go finished. So she said that I should have a seat now.

Speaker 3: 8:19

Before I started, she explained to me just do your best. She's been doing this for 14 years and and in all her time no one has ever completed the test all 50 questions in the 12 minute allotted time. So that was my challenge. So, anyway, I gave her my test paper, grabbed it out of my hand, thought I was clowning around or something, and she said how does she? So she went back in her office. She came out. She was quite had a surprise look on her face. She. So she went back in her office. She came out. She was quite had a surprise look on her face. She said you did very well. I'm like, great, how did I do? And she said you did very well, you got 45 questions right. And I go, wow, what was the highest number of questions completed, correct questions in the 14 years that you've been here? She said 44. So I did 45, correct. And I did it in only 11 minutes. But she looked at me with a very solemn look on her face. She said, richard, but I have to tell you I'm not going to be able to put you forward because I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job. And that just hit me like a ton of bricks in my chest. I'm thinking my goodness. And I looked at her. I was very polite, I thanked her for her time. I went outside. I remember it was a sunny day, the sun was on my face and I made a pledge right then and there. But I was going to do everything in my power to help other Canadians not go through that particular situation. And that was a long time ago. That was just when the Employment Equity Act with Justice Abella was being put together around 1985. And, rita, every day I get up with that feeling and that's what motivates me. I've helped a lot of people newcomers, disadvantaged youth. I work with police, I do a lot of volunteer work.

Speaker 3: 10:01

And this is my sort of mission in life lot of volunteer work and this is my sort of mission in life, if you will. I want to give people that feeling that they have an opportunity to reach their God-given potential and if I can do a little bit, a little part, and help in that regard, then that's the feeling that drives me. As I said a long answer there, but that's the feeling that we have to get in our hearts as diversity, equity and inclusion practitioners. The rest of it is you're asking what are some of the programs I would like to talk about? Maybe a few elements here. So one of them is that whatever you do has to be, I believe, data-driven, evidence-based. So my first job after graduating from McGill was as a research coordinator at a company called Multifax. It was a Jamaican man, his name was Don Miller, his agency was called Creative Concepts and he had a subsidiary that was called Multifax. So we did analysis of different diversity groups, asked people about their boating habits, whether they use oil like home heating oil or electricity, and so on and so forth. We worked with a company out of the US called Researching Forecast, and here I was 23 years old and I was on CBC like talking about at a tender age, talking about the work we were doing. So it was like my very first job a long time ago. Again, it's the combination of having that data and also that drive to make a difference.

Speaker 3: 11:28

At PricewaterhouseCoopers I launched the first DEI, the Diversity and Inclusion. At the time it was called program, and the goal at the time was to get more representation of women into partnership roles. I believe it was about 12, 13% and that's all changed dramatically. In fact, graduates coming out of the CA program now are, I think, if not equal, maybe even more women are coming to the program, and so that's something that I was working with. Another example of a program from there I went on to work with Walmart Canada. There was a program called Women in Retail went on to work with Walmart Canada. There was a program called Women in Retail and our CEO interestingly, she's an American woman that came to Canada and she was brilliant. Her name's Shelly Broder. She was wondering.

Speaker 3: 12:16

When I was hired she brought me into the office. She said I have a question for you. We have about 300 store managers across Canada and only 15% of them are female and I'm having a hard time with 90,000 employees across Canada. I'm having a hard time buying that we have the very best managers in place. What do you think? And I said I agree, that's 15% of 300 store managers. It's 45 people.

Speaker 3: 12:42

The way it was being positioned before my arrival is hey, there's 45 managers out of 45,000. Females. That's one in a thousand, but it's too hyperbolic. The males that are store managers and the senior management it's too aggressive. Right? I just focused on the 15%.

Speaker 3: 12:59

76% of decisions in Walmart stores are made by female buyers. Why do you only have 15% of the stores being run by women? It just didn't make sense. So the answer to all of this is posting the metrics. We have different districts. Each district manager had maybe 12, 14 stores and then we would post at our annual strategy meetings at the beginning of the year and you'd see some areas have no female store managers and the idea was like, hey, you're bringing our scores down here, like what's going on, and that would provide some motivation for those predominantly male district managers. I think we had one female.

Speaker 3: 13:41

To think about having a chat with, that assistant manager, that female who's been there for 12, 14 years, who everybody likes, she knows the product, she loves the customers. Maybe she could change the paradigm and become a store manager. Wouldn't you know it? Today, walmart is probably around 40%, if not a little above that. There's 160 female store managers at Walmart and the thing is they love the job, their employees love them, they have excellent productivity numbers, scans per hour, et cetera, et cetera, and they're just doing fantastic.

Speaker 3: 14:14

Think about that program, rita, is that it expanded across 12 countries, so Chile and a number of countries, united States, and so on and so forth. So again, and a number of countries, united States, and so on and so forth. So again, being evidence-based and data-driven, it's the way to approach these sometimes sensitive topics. I guess I'll talk about my current company, which is Export Development Canada. After the murder of George Floyd, there was an awakening across the United States that even here in Canada, that maybe we weren't doing enough in terms of harnessing the power of, and even here in Canada, that maybe we weren't doing enough in terms of harnessing the power of our diversity here in Canada, particularly with Black community. I was hired that year, in 2020. There was a 55% increase in the US DEI-related hires, so that means management jobs in diversity and inclusion by the end of 2022, just a year and a half later, there was 31% turnover in these DEI jobs. So it's that pendulum effect.

Speaker 3: 15:14

We tend to overreact oh, let's hire. We look at some sort of token jobs and so on. But that's not the way. The company that contacted me, which is Expert Development Canada they had a different view. The CEO, madame Weatherup sorry, the CEO, marie Lavery she had a different view. She said look, I don't want to react, I want to be responsive, I want to be data-driven, evidence-based, I want to take our time, I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. And that was like a blessing to have that opportunity. And this is where I am now. I'm very proud of the pioneering work that we're doing.

Speaker 3: 15:48

A couple of things that we've introduced there is something called a belonging index and um. It's a series of questions on our annual survey, employee survey. That says, for example, um, I feel senior leadership values diversity, and you could either strongly agree with that and agree. You could be neutral, disagree, strongly disagree using the Likert scale. But what's very interesting, what we've done, is when you self-identify, there's four employment equity groups. There's a minority, women, persons with disabilities and indigenous people. So those are the four groups and we also had on black as a subset and as well to SLGBTQIA+. So, interestingly, when you have people self-benefying and you build a trust and you can see from your employees we have about 2000 employees On that question, for example why would there potentially be a gap in percentage of people that agree? And these are people that are working side by side, they're teammates, right.

Speaker 3: 16:47

So this is the whole thing, just like I was saying with Walmart, you have to dig in into those districts, into those regions. You have to do a little deeper digging and find out where there might be pockets that there may be opportunities to address, to support those leaders, to provide programs and so on. So that's this belonging index, which also is tied into representation. Particularly, we're focusing on representation of visible minorities at the leadership level. So this is kind of what I'm working on now and I'm really excited that we have the opportunity and not only that, but we're sharing with other crown corporations and we're all working together to try to make a difference. This is very important because the future of Canada is going to depend on leveraging all the talent that we have in this country.

Speaker 1: 17:38

So what happens when you present this data and the explanation for it? Have you ever received pushback from individuals who says you know what? Yeah, I get it, the numbers are telling you this and who knows? You may be right, you may be wrong, but we're not going in that direction. Have you ever found someone that was I'm going to use the word dogmatic when it comes to the information that you provide to them to help them progress?

Speaker 3: 18:20

Sure, I will go back to Walmart again. By posting all of these representation rates for every district across the country, it becomes quite evident that there are certain pockets that have no females at all. So it's not a matter of being dogmatic, it's you have to explain what's going on. It's not like I'm trying to convince you of anything, I'm just speaking the facts, just the facts. And the thing is, I think the way to approach it is to say that we have some approaches, this Women in Retail program, where we partnered Women, had mentors, they had special events, they had external speakers talking about managing your brand, managing up, managing your boss and so on, and providing that kind of support, especially coming right at the very top of the house, like at your CEO level. This is something that you can't really argue with. Our CEO at Walmart, one of our big meetings, when she just started as the new CEO, she said look, I'm having a hard time believing that we have the best talent running our stores and we're going to try to focus on tapping into the untapped talent that we may have. And if anyone has a problem with that, you should maybe think about finding another job, because we're committed to do the very best so that our customers can save money and live better. It's tied right into our values and so on.

Speaker 3: 19:46

Right now at EDC there's not really pushback that I have seen at all. What is more interesting is it's a very intelligent organization. It's all about helping exporters send products around the world, and then there's certain risk that's calculated in terms of collecting receivables and shipping to parts that may be having conflict and so on. So they're very smart people, they're very analytical and so on. So this is a excellent environment where, if you have the numbers, you're not going to get a lot of pushback. So if you can make the case, business case and if you can provide the assurances that you're here and you're here to serve, as Sam Walton said, servant leadership right. So I'm here to serve and to help, and the employees also seem to react rather well to have somebody that articulates that kind of message. And, as I said, my passion I'm very authentically driven by this and that is to help every Canadian reach their full potential.

Speaker 3: 20:47

I think it's high time that in Canada we have the best and brightest of the world are attracted. We're the number one destination around the globe. People arrive here. What are they doing? They're driving Ubers and taxis. So I've said many times, it's time that new Canadians stop driving taxis and Ubers and start driving the economy.

Speaker 3: 21:08

And you know, in 2051, projections from Stats Canada show that the majority across all of Canada of Canadians will identify as visible minorities or racialized people by 2051. That's 26 years from now. So whether you're in the private sector or the public sector, education sector, political sector, as a leader, you have to ask yourself a question what are you doing about that? And time's ticking. This is inevitable. When you look at not far from here, we have Peel region. 69% of the people who reside in Peel region are racialized, they identify as racialized.

Speaker 3: 21:47

So if you want to see what Canada is going to look like in 26 years from now, take a ride up to Peel region and the organizations, the police service, the schools, the libraries. Obviously, there's things you have to do to adapt, but it's not just a matter of tolerating and I hate that word these new Canadians that are coming. These are people and it's been our history People came from Europe, people came from Africa that collectively, these Canadians made Canada great and what we have to do is tap into these wonderful resources of these really smart people that are coming highly educated, and that's the task at hand. So I think that's the legacy that I'm trying to commit a little bit in my own little way, but that is our most valued resource, I believe.

Speaker 2: 22:38

So we're having this conversation with Richard Pinner, who, according to Speak Up International, is a community builder, and he's telling his story so that we could be inspired, educated and informed. Richard, you are the recipient of the Innovation in Diversity Award. Please explain why and how your approach to diversity is innovative.

Speaker 3: 23:08

Okay, I don't even remember these awards. I've had just a couple of them. I'm usually behind the scenes. That particular award, the Innovation in Diversity, was for the province of Ontario. So there was an organization that wanted to recognize different practitioners that do different things and there were a couple of people that had suggested maybe I should apply for that. I was a bit hesitant but I was so happy I had my two daughters there and they said you have to come to this thing, you have to, you're coming, right, you're coming. I'm like, yeah, I'm coming, you know, so it was really cool. Right, you're coming. I'm like, yeah, I'm coming. So it was really cool. They surprised me and I have the award right over here. It's one of my favorite things the fact that my daughters were there and what was I recognized for? It was part of the work that I do volunteering, working with disadvantaged youth newcomers.

Speaker 3: 23:58

I've worked now for 17 years with the various police service Halton Regional Police. For 17 years Before that it was the Toronto Police Service. There's a program called Youth in Policing Initiative and way back when it started this was like around Division 31, jane and Finch and so on. There's a lot of issues and challenges there still are. But the idea is that police would hire these young people and they would work for the summer in the various precincts. So it would be really cool to get a job with the Marine Division or the Equestrian Division. They're shoveling stuff in the barn, but it's really cool to see the horses and to meet the officers and so on and so forth. So I think I've probably engaged with over 2,000 of these youth. My role was to give them a little pep talk the first day before the last day of their boot camp. It was a one-week prep and then they would go on Monday to their various precincts. There was 175 of these youth and I've continued that program here. It's now in Halton, it's in Durham, it's all over Ontario and it's one of my greatest joys to see these young people understand that in the community we all have a role to play and the police are not necessarily the bad guys. There's a lot of problems in the US We've seen all of that but we're quite fortunate here in Canada that the police are so committed to trying to create a safe and inclusive environment for all the communities that they serve. So I'm very aligned with that.

Speaker 3: 25:31

I serve on the inclusion diversity panel here with Halton Police, and I've been doing this youth leadership program with the Canadian Caribbean Association of Halton. It's my 17th year doing it and I did a calculation, rita if you have 20 youth in a session and you do five sessions, that's what I call 100 youth in seats. So between my volunteer work and my professional work, I just passed 10,000 youth in seats. So that's a lot of young people and it really warms my heart.

Speaker 3: 26:02

Every now and then I get an email, whether it's on LinkedIn or something. Oh yes, you spoke to me 10 years ago. I really appreciated you, so that's a reward. But I don't think there's really much time to sit back and wait for glass trophies or any kind of awards or recognition. The work is for the future of our country, or any kind of awards or recognition. The work is for the future of our country. It's for our children, and people that are really committed to creating an opportunity for everyone really do a tireless job here. Like it's an uphill battle all the time, but it's not for the meek, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 26:39

You wrote an article called or titled, mastering Soft Skills the key to jobment in Canada. So what are these key skills that you emphasize when you're talking to the youth, and why?

Speaker 3: 26:59

Great research you're doing. That article was written probably 17 years ago, something like that, and at that time it was very clear to me that the future of Canada was going to include an influx of highly talented people coming to our country. The thing that many of these folks would be lacking is what I call soft skills, technical skills, computer programming, coding, all of that kind of thing. That's like a hard skill or a technical skill. Immigration now you look at the 10 top countries of origin, these are all countries like China and Philippines and so on. Many of these countries India are very hierarchical.

Speaker 3: 27:40

So when you start working and someone says, what do you think, rita? You're like hey, I want to be respectful, I'm not the boss, I'm not going to say anything, it's my boss. When I'm the boss, I will share my opinion. So that's a simplistic view of it. But this hierarchical sort of orientation here in Canada it's quite different. So let's say, in India 90% of your value is based on the university you graduated and your technical skills or your hard skills. Canada it's more like 50-50. So you could have graduated with a diploma, maybe in marketing, but you're really well-known in the company, you really energize people, you're the one that does the Timmy's run, getting coffee for people and people like you, and they're motivated and they do that discretionary effort, that that extra work. So, as a leader here in Canada it's about 50-50. So your soft skills and your technical skills.

Speaker 3: 28:29

So someone comes from a different country and they have already two degrees and there's an opportunity for promotion and they don't understand how did this guy with a diploma get the manager job? You know what I have to go get my fourth degree? No, you don't have to get any more. What you have to go get my fourth degree no, you don't have to get any more. What you have to do is start focusing on your soft skill and that's how you speak, how you engage and get out of your comfort zone. You got to look people in the eye. You have to get involved in cultural activities. Now some people say is that really fair? Shouldn't it be a two-way street? Yeah, it shouldn't be a two-way street, but in my opinion, the way it works in Canada when it comes to promotions and so on and leading teams, you have to be able to inspire and if you can't speak, if you can't communicate, if you're too shy, you're going to be passed up.

Speaker 2: 29:27

So the idea is if you made a big investment, you've come to Canada as a new Canadian, get out of your comfort zone and start practicing those soft skills. I hear you loud and clear when you say that soft skills are important. They're critical to success in countries such as Canada. I think of the financial institution that I do my banking at. The staff will not say can I help you. They will say I can help you and to me there was a huge even though it's the same words, there's a huge difference in how that makes me feel when I walk into that place. Soft skills are really important. I want you to explain for our listeners what exactly did you do in your role as a director of Ontario Post-Secondary Assessment Board, please?

Speaker 3: 30:14

Okay, sure thing I was a member of the board of directors, so I was a director on the board and we put together a group Mitzi Hunter and a number of us. There were some issues going on on the board and we put together a group Mitzi Hunter and a number of us. There were some issues going on Norma Telfer she was an iconic community leader. She said you know what? There's too much friction and these different groups are protesting against the government of the day, whether it was at the time Ontario government, was ultimately Guente, and so on. She said you know what we got to do? We have to help out the government and we will give them some white papers on what are the issues that are pressing and important within the black community. So there was seven or eight of us that got together. I was the marketing person. We called it Black Access and we invited the premier to review these six white papers. And we're going to hold an event at the Old Mill, which is a nice place in Toronto, and he had agreed that he would stay for about 20 minutes. He brought a number of his ministers and even other people federally, like Dr Jean Augustine, I believe, was there and a number of people. It was a sold out, full house. We raised about $25,000, which is also very good, but wouldn't you know it, dalton McGinty spoke for about one hour and 20 minutes, so it was a really good event and so that was a different way of getting involved.

Speaker 3: 31:40

Now, when he spoke, one of the topics he wrote a white paper on was this idea of representation of black community members on public boards. So, whether it's the CNE or this or that or whatever, there's all these public boards and there's very little representation. So he spoke about that. He was like oh yeah, you got to do this and you got to. There's four steps. You got to do this, got to do that, got to do this. So I was taking note and I said I'm going to follow all these steps. So I did that and I put my application in and so on. I didn't really know what the process was, as many people don't. So next thing, you know Minister Malloy. At the time he contacted me. He's Minister of Education Universities. He contacted me and his office did, and said that they would like to extend opportunity to serve on the board. So that was great.

Speaker 3: 32:28

So, because I'm a member of the community, I had my degree from McGill and also from York, now Shuling. I had perspective. So many of the colleges at the time were doing diplomas. So you get a diploma and unfortunately, cost-wise they're a lot more affordable compared to a research university, but they weren't taking you where you needed to get to. So this is where these colleges like Sheridan, humber, the long list they were able now to put an application for a degree granting program. So, for example, I know I think Sheridan had one. It was a Bachelor of Commerce in website marketing or website design. So great.

Speaker 3: 33:12

So here's somebody again. I'll mention India. India is known for its technology advancement and so on. Somebody might have immigrated from India with 70 people working in their department doing web design and they can get a job at some of these bigger institutions because it's not Canadian recognized, if you will. So now, having a bachelor of web design from Humber College, that would make a big difference across point of view and also from the opportunity to start harnessing some of this talent by providing a direct route into these major organizations, whether it be banks and so on.

Speaker 3: 33:51

So that was my sort of vision and I served on that for a little over a year. They had terms and I still have some of the binders. They're like maybe five inches thick. You have to read all this stuff. These people are so smart that serve on these secretariats and so on. It's unbelievable. We're so blessed to have such great, talented people here in Ontario and across Canada and it's just remarkable. So it was a real eye-opener and again, I'm very proud when I think of all the people. I would have gone through all of these courses and I had a little part to play in that. I'm very proud of that.

Speaker 3: 34:34

And as we look forward in the next 26 years, as we move towards 2051, I'm really hoping that leaders across all our sectors in Canada really put their head down and realize that this is a resource that has to be fully developed and it does take a little bit of time. It takes a commitment, some capability and confidence, but in the end the country's going to benefit. Look what's going around the world right now all over there's all sorts of political problems, polarization and this, and that we are the utopian society. Canada can serve as a beacon for the rest of the world to show that inclusion and diversity is not just a nice thing or something that you aspire to, but it's something that's necessary as we evolve to that next generation, that next level prosperity, we could demonstrate to the world that Canada is fueled by our diversity, and it's an interesting thought.

Speaker 3: 35:28

Again, these thoughts are coming to mind, but way back, way, way back, we used to talk about diversity of thought. Remember that expression of diversity of thought? And now it's all been lost. When we talk about all the political polarization, this, that and so on, in the end what really drives me, it's amazing that it has not changed. The most important factor is this idea of humans with different lived experience, different cultural experience, coming together and those brains coming together and demonstrating diversity of thought. It's going to be the future of the world and we are blessed here in Canada to have the opportunity to take that on as a challenge. So diversity of thought is very important.

Speaker 2: 36:16

It's interesting that my mother, who did not have a post-secondary education, would say that in our gardens there's diversity. You have your zinnias, you have your roses, you have your marigolds, you have a variety of different colors and different scents and they live so well together in harmony. And that should be our example as human beings that we try our very best to live as well as those plants in the garden. And that takes me to my next question. Over the years, you've done deep and wide inclusive work based on your story. Have you always felt included?

Speaker 3: 37:14

you mean, have I ever felt included? Is that what you said?

Speaker 3: 37:18

I said always but speak to it, speak to that I think, as as a youngster and and we all have this feeling that we want to be included. We are, we are social animals, right, we have a very tribal instinct we want to be part of a group, part of a family, part of a community. And when you are different, it's sometimes hard to have that feeling that you are actually included. So to those folks that have that feeling I'm very sympathetic. And this idea of inclusion that someone gets to say, okay, rita, you're going to be included, I'm going to include you. I don't really like that. It has a negative connotation to me. And let's take it a step further. For me to say, rita, sorry, you're not welcome here. The idea of excluding it's excruciating, it's very painful, whether you're a young person, whether you're a new Canadian, whether you're a woman who's not participating in the management team, whatever it is, I just think it's very painful. My hope is that we start recognizing how detrimental this lazy attitude of, oh, I'm not going to include this person and I have the right to do that and I'm going to exclude that person. I think it's bordering on bullying actually. So people will realize again if they have the data, if it's data-driven and evidence-based and there's a business case as to why this makes sense for your organization, for your company, for your community. That everybody like the garden, like your mom's garden, all those flowers and the smell of smelling, all of those different scents. That's why God put them on the planet right. And this notion that somehow excluding these people or excluding those people or excluding the others is somehow easier, I think it's a very short-term perspective. I think we have to go longer in our view of the world. And again, for those that have the opportunity to have children I've been blessed with two daughters there's a natural inclination to try to create a better country, better opportunities, safer communities for the future. That's what I'm trying to do, so I don't really thrive.

Speaker 3: 39:36

When I was a very young child, I gave up on this idea of trying to fit in. I knew I was different and what I realized is that the way you fit in is by being your unique self and having this inclusive environment where everybody respects everybody else and everybody has the chance, as I say, to reach their God-given potential. And remember life is short as well. So we're not here for a long time. So while we are here, I think we should be focusing on being productive, helping others, being kind, and these kind of sentiments, I think, will, at the end of the day, make you feel that you've done your part. Or maybe not. The end of the day, maybe at the end of your life you feel that you've done your part, or maybe not. The end of the day, maybe at the end of your life you'll have that feeling of satisfaction that you've done what you could your passion runs high when it comes to the gathering of different minds and getting them to more or less come together.

Speaker 1: 40:32

They come up with wonderful ideas because of people's backgrounds, which are different, and we can all appreciate that. In fact, there's a organization that Rita and I belong to, and they do emphasize that fact of having different individuals, different perspectives from all walks of life, and I think that organization has set themselves up for many years to come. Aside from all of that, what do you do when you are not at work? Do you like movies? Do you go out for dinner? What do you like doing to relax?

Speaker 3: 41:17

Okay, I don't do a lot of that, to be honest. So I tend to work. I do a lot of volunteer work as well, and I'm intellectually challenged to try to figure out ways to use my time as effectively as possible. I try not to overdo it. We have to be careful with work-life balance. My current company really stresses that you should not be doing all these extra hours and so on. So it's a challenge to try to take care of your health while you're also taking care of these important aspects, which to me really translates to helping others reach their full potential. I don't do. I used to do renovations and stuff. I worked on home stuff. I used to work with cars, I used to have a motorcycle, but as you get older, this kind of moves away and I'm really more interested in the technology and I'm trying to look into the future and understand how I can help set my two daughters up to the best of my ability.

Speaker 3: 42:20

This topic of artificial intelligence we hear about it, so I'm really delving into that. Just in those articles way back when we're talking about electronic newsletters, imagine that was the new fad and I was like, oh no, it's going to be, it's going to be important. But AI also chat GPT. I'd encourage everybody to go and just do a Google on chat GPT, that'll be your best friend. You can get, for example, you can say prepare 10 PowerPoint slides, outlines in PowerPoint on the topic of the future of immigration in Canada, and boom, in three seconds, there you go and it's got all the resources and stuff. So the technology is such that the supercomputers can now go and scan all this documentation and everything. It's just mind-boggling, but it's just a tool, right? This is another new resource previously unavailable that's going to help the future leaders move us in the right direction, hopefully. There's obviously opportunities to use this technology in a negative way, take advantage of people to hurt people, and this is where the human condition we're going to have leaders, hopefully, that are going to stand up and do the right thing, but we shall see. So, yeah, chat GPT.

Speaker 3: 43:36

The other one is LinkedIn. I just want to mention for your listeners, anyone that would be interested in connecting with me. I have just over 29,000 contacts in LinkedIn and that's how we met Ellington. Elton and I met through LinkedIn. So I try to carve out some time, usually at lunchtime when I have my lunch, or in the evenings, like doing this conversation here if we can share our thoughts. It's funny. Way back when I started university, I always had this thing in my head about communicating truth, giving strength. So when I was at McGill I spoke to the head of the linguistics department we didn't have all the internet access to the extent that we have now but I said is there an expression in Latin that talks about communicating effectively, giving strength? Something like that? He said I'm not really sure.

Speaker 3: 44:25

He said I've got a colleague at University of Toronto, let me check with him. So he checked with a colleague, gave me the number. I contacted this person from U of T and he said no, I haven't found anything, but I'll give me a week, I'll get back to you. So I'm like, okay. So it was about a week later. I called him and he said no, I can't find anything. But from my research I've come up with a phrase that I think you'll appreciate. And I said what's that? So he said veritatum.

Speaker 3: 44:49

In Latin W, ds are pronounced as a W. So varitatum, which sounds like in French, vérité, truth. So varitatum, dicaré D, as in French, like Z. Dicaré means spoken, and valet or let means like valor. Right, the gladiators, they would salute you before I go to my death. Right, when they're going to get eaten by a lion. So you put it together Varitatum dicaré, when they're going to get eaten by a lion. So you put it together Wairi, tatum, digbore, walet. So that means the communication of truth gives strength. So, Elton, that's what I do when I get time to relax. I try to focus my thoughts, I try to be an effective communicator, because it just inspires me and it keeps me young and it gives me strength.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Now, let us suppose that you are invited to have a chat, to address a graduating class from a university. What do you want to tell them?

Speaker 3: 45:59

Give us three nuggets that you'd want to share with them about DEI, please. If I was addressing the graduates, I would say to the graduates look to your left, look to your right. No doubt one third of you is going to be very influential and very successful in your lives. So if it's not the person to your left person to your right, it's going to be you. So I would just encourage them that they should try to stay connected. Really important. You have all these wonderful, dedicated youth that are studying, that are working hard. They're all gifted. You don't get into these universities if you're not committed and also have a level of intelligence which obviously is measurable. So stay connected is one thing. The other thing is students focus so hard on the exams and you're doing the all-nighters and all that, and they have this intense focus and when you graduate, I would say stay focused. So keep that power that you have, that power of focus. And then, finally, I would say stay kind, stay connected, stay focused, stay kind.

Speaker 2: 46:59

Gems indeed.

Speaker 1: 47:02

You have done so much Teach individuals, enlighten them in ways to include individuals or to bring individuals into the organization, and, when I say that, giving them the raises that these individuals are due and I think you really proved that while you were at Walmart, I think you made wonderful inroads and influenced a lot of people in order to get them to move women in this case to positions of authority. You did a wonderful thing at the development at Online Technology Canada. You also was able to shine the light so that individuals could see what needs to be done in order for the best and the brightest citizens of Canada to be utilized. I'm hoping that in the future, we are going to have an opportunity to have you back again. I think there are so many stories that you have that are educational and entertain, and that's just three of the pillars that Speak Up International stands on. Thank you so much, mr Pinnock, for your conversation today.

Speaker 3: 48:30

Thank you very much. And thank you, rita hey. I just wanted to say to close off, I really appreciate both of you. And my final words, rita hey. I just wanted to say to close off, I really appreciate both of you.

Speaker 2: 48:37

And my final words are stay connected, stay focused, stay kind.

Speaker 3: 48:44

Thank you very much, both of you.

Speaker 2: 48:47

Pleasure.

Speaker 1: 48:53

Thank you for listening to Speak Up International. If you wish to contact Mr Richard Panock MBA, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Mr Panock at wwwrichardpanachcom forward slash welcome dot html. Mr Panach has other social media accounts you can use to connect to him, listed in the description section on Spotify and other platforms. Are you interested in the opportunity to be interviewed and have your cause promoted by Speak Up International? We invite you to connect to us by sending a message that includes your name, company or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Worried about your confidence as an interviewee? Don't fret. Email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Worried about your confidence as an interviewee? Don't fret. Speak Up International can provide you with the necessary training so you shine during an interview. To receive training information and a 10% discount about the Speak Up International's podcast interviewee training program, email us at info at speakuppodcastca. You can also reach us using Facebook, instagram, twitter and LinkedIn To connect to our podcast. Use Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up International. You can also find our podcast using our web address, wwwspeakuppodcastca. Our logo has the woman with her finger pointing up, mouth open, speaking up.

Speaker 1: 51:00

By joining Patreon, we can offer you an exclusive opportunity to become an integral part of the continued success of our podcast. Your financial support will enable us to cover the costs associated with producing high-quality content, such as equipment upgrades, hosting fees and professional editing services. As a member of our Patreon group, you will gain access to a range of exciting benefits. We are working on providing you early access to new episodes and the opportunity to suggest topics or guests for future episodes. Your contribution will not only help sustain the continuity of the podcast, but also allow us to enhance the overall listening experience for all of our dedicated followers. Help us, help you. Wwwpaprioncom forward slash. Speak Up International. At Speak Up International, we aim to inspire, to inform and to educate.