Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Speak Up Exclamation Point International's captivating part, one of our two-part series titled Creator of Positive Movements, featuring the remarkable Kingsley Gilliam. With an incredibly dynamic and ever-changing life, mr Gilliam shares an abundance of fascinating stories. Welcome to Speak Up International, with Rita Burke and Elton Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Speak Up International. We strive to educate, inspire and inform. Today we have LeManritas, whose story will certainly help us to meet those goals. His name is Kingsley Gilliam and I want to begin by saying to Mr Gilliam, in two sentences tell us a little bit about Kingsley Gilliam, please.

Speaker 3: 0:56

Thank you, rita. That's a tall order. I'll try my best. Kingsley Gilliam, or Kingsley Persephone Gilliam as my official name gets out on in media, is a humanitarian community builder who has devoted the last 53 years to both professional career and a community service path Continuous service to the black and other communities in Canada. I hail from Jamaica. I studied Psychiatric Nursing at Bellevue Hospital and was involved in the decentralization of psychiatric services in Jamaica through a project run by Pan American Health Organization.

Speaker 3: 1:57

I arrived in Canada on the 28th day of March 1969. I lived in Sudbury, ontario, and I got involved. I traveled from Sudbury to Toronto to get grounded with the black community in Toronto, work with people like Charles Rhodes, edward Clark, people from the UNIA, arthur Downs and others and got groomed in community, participated in the marches for African liberation, came drove to Toronto on weekends to assist with the black education project that coach black kids to survive in the racist environment in the public school system and so on. Organizations served in national leadership, with the national black coalition of Canada as national vice chair, contributed to numerous legislative changes in immigration. For instance, in 1973 I co-led a march on Parliament Hill for an amnesty because the government of Canada retroactively changed immigration regulations and prevented people from changing status in Canada. We felt that was very unfair and so we lobbied, and with no effect. So Dudley Laws, charles Rhodes, edward Clark and I summoned people from all over Canada and we assembled on Parliament Hill, had a massive rally there, demanded an amnesty, and we marched through the streets of Ottawa with the RCMP, the head of us, shutting down the traffic To, demanding an amnesty. We say it was very unfair of government to put people in those predicaments and as a result of that we got the amnesty and over 50,000 people got landed immigrant status through that process.

Speaker 3: 4:12

Two years later the government of Canada came up with the immigration green paper debate. It is a policy perspective which was intended to stop non-white immigrants from coming to Canada. At that time I was national vice chair of the National Black Coalition of Canada with a law and justice mandate, and I traveled. I held a workshop in Sudbury along with Charles Rhodes. I brought Charles Rhodes, who was our immigration lawyer advisor, to the board of directors and we both ran that session in Sudbury.

Speaker 3: 4:52

And after that I went all over Canada where the joint parliamentary committee was going to go to run similar sessions preparing people, and I spoke to them about the race basis of the policy and there is one policy. The policy structure was that they commissioned a number of background studies from different organizations and experts to justify the thesis that they wanted to stop non-white immigration. One was done by Professor Raymond Breton, les Kennedy and J Lamson of the University of Toronto, and this is the real McCoy. This is my copy of that.

Speaker 3: 5:47

And I met with the joint parliamentary committee in Sudbury on the 22nd day of May 1975 and I told them that this report was hate literature and that it should be withdrawn and the authors charge under the criminal code of Canada for willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group. The report it argues that when the number of people, the percentage of people of different somatic norm image, rise in a population, in a host population, to 3% or greater, it creates a moral dilemma for that whole society, particularly when their sons and daughters start going steady with those people of different somatic norm image.

Speaker 1: 6:52

Can I have to say that your talent working with individuals in order to get a job done or to create a movement is impressive. What made you go into mental health care, social services? What interest you in that area that caused you to move in that direction?

Speaker 3: 7:15

Two things. In Jamaica there were limited opportunities, career opportunities for people, and teaching and psychiatric nursing provided an opportunity, as in psychiatric nursing they had they paid you a stipend while you trained. So that was one opportunity, one part. But secondly, my brother, my elder brother, five years my senior, was there and by then he was a senior staff nurse. So he encouraged me to try it.

Speaker 2: 7:53

It's quite an area to work in, isn't it? With people with mental health issues. I didn't know you had that background, because mine is similar. Does that mean that you followed up and did health care here in Canada as well?

Speaker 3: 8:07

Yeah, I came. When I landed here I first worked for Sudbury General Hospital on the psychiatric unit. They hired me as an orderly, a nursing orderly, because they claimed they did not know what to hire me as they had to get direction from college and nurses because Ontario did not recognize psychiatric nursing. And I worked with them for some time and then I quit and I went to work in the mining operations at INCOR and went to school at that point studying technology issues like mineral processing technology, because I had come to stay for about 10 years, get some skills and go back to Jamaica. So we knew I knew we had a big box site industry in Jamaica and we knew nothing about it. So I thought that working with INCOR would introduce me to that sphere. And then while doing that, I studied at Cambrian College doing mineral processing and extractive metallurgy and those type of technology courses as well. I did some related courses like psychology, abnormal psychology and so on.

Speaker 3: 9:29

So I covered both bases and then I spent five years with INCOR and then, while at INCOR, I got into the trade union movement when I saw the working conditions and how people were treated.

Speaker 3: 9:46

Two weeks after I joined Stuart's training program I was trained as a union steward and then I got into labour law and arbitration and collective bargaining and other union courses.

Speaker 3: 10:00

And then I did a correspondence course from the Labour College of Canada and they offered me an academic scholarship. So I attended the Labour College of Canada in 1974 residential class which was held at the University of Montreal and sponsored by the Canadian Labour Congress and a number of leading universities such as McGill, the University of Montreal, concordia, university of Ottawa, carleton and so on and many of the major universities, and while there the English students did all over work at McGill, use McGill's facility as a English institution while the French use University of Montreal, but the courses were held at University of Montreal and the professors drawn from a number leading universities. So I did that as well. I did three diplomas at Cambrian College and undergraduate degree in social work and social sciences at Laurentian University. So I had my hands in both areas. And then after five years with INCO I resigned and I then worked exclusively with Brielle Goma Hospital in adolescent psychiatry and I did it for a number of years.

Speaker 1: 11:38

Your educational background is impressive. It almost sounds as if you are an everlasting student. If there was something you wanted, you went and got the necessary training to move forward. So how did you use your educational background to create movements? It seemed like you were able to gather voices, collective voices, and cause them to fall into sync in order to express a movement.

Speaker 3: 12:14

All of that was done simultaneously. For instance, when I worked in psychiatric nursing at Bellevue, we encountered a phenomenon whereby the vast majority of patients we encountered there was some linkage between their illness and early childhood experience. So while I was at Cambrian College doing these other courses on a part-time basis and working in industry, they advertised a one-month block course, full-time days, in early childhood education, and I immediately registered for it. The day the posting came out and they posted on the notice board. There I was in the continuing education office, I saw it, I registered immediately, I paid the fee and I took four weeks leave of absence from my job at INCO to go and do that course because I saw it as a preventive approach to emotional disturbance and learning disabilities. And I eventually authored a paper by that title, published by Vincent Doiley in his book the Black President in Multiethnic Canada by OISI and UBC Press.

Speaker 3: 13:58

But that when I sold up for that course after taking four weeks leave of absence, the instructor refused, told me I was not accepted in the course and I said nobody told me that I'm here. I refuse to accept your refusal. She wanted me to leave and I wouldn't leave and that became a big thing. So she called the chairman. The chairman spoke to her and then he talked to me and said come up and see me, let's discuss this. And when I went up he said let's. She's there telling me they don't know your background enough to determine that you're qualified, but they have people in the course that has university degrees et cetera, et cetera. So I said to the chairman they did not.

Speaker 3: 14:48

The advertisement did not have a prerequisite. But if that is the issue, I'll go home and bring you credentials within half an hour. That will clarify the situation. So he suggested that no, don't go now. Go, come back at three o'clock, let her teach the day and dismiss the students. Then we can go down and meet with her. So I thought it was a reasonable idea. So I did that and when I went back with my package of credentials he said this is impressive. We'll go down and we will see Mrs Bannerman. Her name was Leah Bannerman, hired from Thunder Bay, ontario.

Speaker 3: 15:34

So we went down to see Mrs Bannerman and the chairman when Mr Nicholson said you said you didn't know enough about Mr Gilliam's background. You see that he was qualified to enter the course. But Mr Gilliam has brought credentials with, put a lot more light on that. Therefore, I have discussed the matter with the dean, brian Sivill, and we both agreed that we will abide by any decision you make. I said, pardon me, that's not why I'm here. I'm here to show why I must be admitted to the course.

Speaker 3: 16:24

Mrs Bannerman looked at the credentials and said they were impressive indeed, but she alone could not make the decision. She had to consult with her partner, who was in Ottawa, and she would get back to me. She got back to me in about an hour and a half and told me that her partner also agreed that I qualified to be in the course and she'll be there. However, there was one problem, and that the course is full, so they can't admit anybody else until somebody drop out. And I said, with the caliber of students that you have, why would somebody drop out? He said yeah, we have two weeks students in there that will drop out. And I said will they drop out by nine o'clock tomorrow morning? He said not likely. And so nine o'clock the following morning I started by crusade through the college administration and I went all the way up through to the president, who was his name was Crumbies, david Crumbies' brother, and he wouldn't do anything. And so I took it to the Ontario Human Rights Commission and two weeks later, halfway through the course, an officer from the commission came in.

Speaker 3: 17:48

By this time the manager of continuing education, who was away on holidays the week of the year. The start of the course was back and he said look, I came and I heard this thing and had I been here I would have overturned that and put you in the course. But now that it's a human rights thing, he said there's just one thing. He understood that I say I was the only student applicant that was not admitted. And he said but he understand that was not correct. He understood that there were eight others, so I was wrong.

Speaker 3: 18:28

So the officer asked him for the application form for the other eight and then he started to waffle and he waffle and he said he started to pace and he said he's uncomfortable with that, he don't want to make that decision. So he sent us to the dean, brian Seville, at the next campus, five miles away, and when we went and met with Mr Seville he was somewhat receptive and then he started. But when it came to providing this, he said he had trouble doing it and making that decision by himself, and so on. And the officer told him I tell you what I can do. You don't give me those, I will leave. I will go and write an order under the human rights code ordering you to produce, to provide me with all originals of all applicants to the course. I will give you a receipt for them. I take them, copy them and return them to you.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Do you think that this whole process happened because of the color of your skin?

Speaker 3: 19:44

Absolutely Two things my gender and color of my skin and the perception of black people. There was nobody. I was the first male to apply for an early childhood education program in the province and because of that was the problem, but eventually I was admitted to the course. It's still a long story. We will take up the whole time to give that, but I got in there and after some six years and two other diplomas I got my early childhood education diploma.

Speaker 2: 20:20

Amazing, amazing, wow, wow story, and it seems to me as if your determination and ability to advocate on your own behalf got through through the systemic challenges that existed then and continue to exist today in our country. Thanks for sharing that story.

Speaker 3: 20:46

Yes.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Now we have interviewed quite a number of people on Speak Up International and many of them were recipients of awards, but your award list, I must admit, is the longest, so tell us a little bit about some of the awards you have received so far.

Speaker 3: 21:07

The first thing I got in community service was a Gold Watch. I was one of the founders of the West Indian Society of Sudbury. I was a founding member and I served as president for four years and when I was leaving Sudbury they presented me with a Gold Watch embossed with my name on it for service to that organization. You won't be able to see the details, but yeah, so that is the first one, because out of that we did a lot of transformative things in Sudbury, and Sudbury is the only community. One of the things that we did I ran a series of Saturday morning programs concurrent with my training in early childhood education for small children and school-age children, and I got other students to work with me, and that religiously, every Saturday morning, every Saturday.

Speaker 1: 22:11

How did it feel to receive that Gold Watch? Kinsley Pardon. How did it feel when you received that Gold Watch?

Speaker 3: 22:20

It felt great, it felt appreciated. I was leaving the community. I did so much to the community and I left. And these were people, and the man that presented it on behalf of them was someone that I have groomed Personally, groomed in leadership. We created, in my view, we must create opportunities for youth to learn and grow, and so I created three committees and put the chairs of these committees on the board, and so they participated in all the board meetings to see how decisions are made and learn that and so on. And so he was in leadership, he was on the board at that time and he personally selected the watch and got it engraved and presented it to me.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Fantastic. I like the story of the Gold Watch. I've never received one as yet, but maybe there's still hope. So that's one award, that's one. Tell us about two more before we move to your next question.

Speaker 3: 23:36

Okay, this one I received in Edmonton and what happened is that I moved to Edmonton in 1980 to go to graduate school and work with Canadian Mental Health Association at the same time concurrently, and I got a letter from Dr Wilson Head who was then the chairman of the National Black Coalition of Canada. The coalition had gone through some restructuring and they created a new membership class. They had chapters. Originally, we had organizational members only. Then they created chapters, semi-autonomous chapters under the coalition's charter, and then a national chapter which would make made up of people from all over who were in small communities where there wasn't a critical mass to create a chapter. And he assigned me his personal representative in Alberta to establish chapters of the National Black Coalition of Canada. So I created two, one in Edmonton and one in Calvary.

Speaker 3: 24:59

I chaired the Edmonton chapter and developed a number of programs and I think their summer school program. We dealt with a major problem in the school system where black children were being put in programs for mentally retarded and so on, significant in significant numbers and so on. So we intervened in that and out of that I developed a number of programs. One was a summer school program but in order to get funding we called it a black summer social, cultural, recreational and educational program because nobody funded education and I got funding from the multiculturalism Canada and from Alberta culture to run that program. So I was able to hire competent staff teachers, all teachers and so on to run the program and the type of thing. I did a number of other things major thing fights on human rights, so on while there.

Speaker 3: 26:13

So when I was leaving to go to Fort, I was leaving, I had just completed the graduate work and a firm master's degree in community development and adult education at the University of Alberta and was leaving to take a job with the Yukon government to manage a regional office of the Ministry of Health and Human Resources in an area that had a real crisis.

Speaker 3: 26:52

It's a one industry town. The town of Faro, which accounted for it, had one industry and led ZincMind, which accounted for 42% of the GDP of the Yukon, and it was being threatened with shutdown and so I was moving to go there and so I had. When I was about to leave, there was a big fiasco. I called a meeting of the members and took to have an early AGM it would be about three months early and to elect a whole new slate of officers, so leave it in full throttle to go on. And people came there with an agenda and busted up the meeting and I had to call in the police and this and a number of people. One person was actually arrested and charged with unlawful confinement and there were 10 of them involved with that and there were warrants to arrest all of them and this type of thing, etc.

Speaker 3: 28:03

Anyway to put a long story. When I was leaving, a friend of mine, a criminal lawyer, philip G Parker, one of the best criminal lawyers in Alberta he invited me to go to dinner with him, and so he came and picked me up and then it took me to this place and I went there and there was a room full of people and they had this reception for me and they presented me with this plaque. It's not too long so I'll try to read it for you. It says presented to Kings Legilium, your many hours of untiring work and expertise have made the black community grow and prosper. We will search long and hard to find one as capable as you. Edmonton, alberta.

Speaker 1: 29:15

Thank you, so how important is it for you to see that black and brown communities understand and use mental health care services.

Speaker 3: 29:29

It is extremely important for every group. We are all psychological beings as well as physiological beings, and we need to understand the dynamics of mental health and mental wellness in order to be effective in dealing with families and communities. So I implore everyone to pay attention to mental health. Our governments put lower priority on it because people with mental health don't vote, they think and so on, but it is a serious problem and we got to keep our people healthy physically and mentally and emotionally.

Speaker 3: 30:23

Quite agreed, quite agreed, yes so you asked me about that'll give you another one. Let me run them through. This one is the Governor General of Jamaica's Award of Excellence for Service in the Diaspora and it says Jamaica Diaspora Award of Excellence, presented to Kingsley P Gilliam in recognition of significant achievements and leadership in Jamaican Diaspora Region, canada, june 16, 2015.

Speaker 1: 31:03

Kingsley, where was that award presented In?

Speaker 3: 31:06

Montego Bay, at the Montego Bay Convention Center, we are at the Biennial Jamaica Diaspora Conference. And this is the citation that goes with it. It is lengthy so I won't read it all, but it says Governor General's Achievement Award Program. Kingsley P Gilliam Jamaica Diaspora Award of Excellence recipient in the year 2015. And it says an exemplary of community service, kingsley P Gilliam believes that the quest for excellence requires personal sacrifices to go above and beyond in using one's abilities and to achieve the goals of community development and nation-nation building. At Jamaican by birth and a nationalized Canadian, his precepts are reflected in the numerous scholarly awards scholarly writing, sorry and areas of expertise, including community organization and development, human resource management, human rights advocacy and social justice policy development. This, among other things that it has to say, but it goes on a lot more. Then I have this one from the unsung heroes, and it says the Black Star Movement bestows Kingsley Gilliam the Social Justice Marcus Garvey Noble Award November 2015.

Speaker 2: 33:28

So that's four of them, that's four awards, and if you look at your bio, there are about 20 of them.

Speaker 3: 33:35

Thank you, thank you, thank you, yes, and this one is from Bad Sea, and so on. Yes, so, yes. So I've done that, and one of the last one that I want to show you right now is this one is a certificate of appreciation presented by Tropicana Community Services for my volunteer work with them and what I do for them. As you probably know, they are an intermediary in the supporting Black community initiatives funded by the government of Canada, so I am a grant reviewer for them so that they receive all these grant applications and then one of the people that review these grants determine whether they meet the criteria and approve or not approve them. So those are some of the things that I do in terms of the awards.

Speaker 1: 34:43

Do you see, kinsley, the disparities when it comes to mental health care? Let's say, for an example, government funding.

Speaker 3: 34:52

Yes, no government really fund mental health properly. It is an appendage to health and one of the big things that we have been doing and part of my advocacy, particularly around policing. We have had a plethora of people shot dead by police who are in mental health crisis. So one of the things I have done quite recently was to advocate for a dedicated crisis intervention system. Asked by mental health professionals, mental health and social service professionals. I told I issued after we had a spate of about four of them being shot in a short while in Peel region, and I issued a press release on behalf of the Black Action Defense Committee calling on the government I called on the solicitor general who is responsible for policing and for the government of Ontario to develop a province wide professional based crisis intervention team system that will be first responders to any kind of crisis and they would go in and make the assessment and whether this is something that require police involvement.

Speaker 3: 36:36

Police gets 12 weeks training at police college to be to work with clients in any agency. The minimum training one can have is a two year college diploma in social service or one of those programs. How does police get 12 weeks training? They get a badge and a gun and they have to go there and they are the be all and end all expert on every subject doesn't work by pointing out that in all my years in mental health I have never seen a patient get seriously injured or killed in an encounter with a mental health professional, and therefore that is the way to go. So I sent that off to the solicitor general, attorney general and to the minister of colleges and universities, with a recommendation that they fund more programs in the tertiary institutions that provide this type of training, so that there will be an adequate supply of these people throughout the province to fill the positions that would create.

Speaker 2: 37:50

Thanks for working on behalf of our community. That's why we're interviewing you, because you're a community builder Now. Kingsley, you have mentioned bad see, and that was one of the questions I was going to ask you about today is how did you become involved with bad see?

Speaker 3: 38:10

I became involved with bad see because the founders of bad see and I were in community action way before from the seventies. Charles Roach I met Charles Roach at the with club in the summer of 1969 and we became good friends. He didn't even open his law practice yet and I met him. I met Harry Gary, who they both ran that with club, and then by the early seventies I was, as I say, I was coming to Toronto and participate in these community forums and marches and this type of thing, et cetera. So we did that and then we served while I was on the board of the National Black Coalition of Canada. Charles Roach was one of the legal advisor. Charles Rose Vibart, rose may and Dr Juanita Wismorlin-Treyor from Montreal were the three legal advisors to the board, and Charlie Edward Clark was the chair of the board while I was vice chair and so on. And Dudley Laws was one of our fiercest debaters on the floor at NBC conventions.

Speaker 3: 39:36

So when the issue came up with respect to the shooting of Lester Donald, they sprung into action and they did this. I supported them in the background because at that time I worked as a probation and parole officer and had to interact with police every day. So I couldn't go to police stations and protest and this type of thing. It would be political and professional suicide. So I didn't do that. I supported them behind the scenes and collaborated discussion and private discussions and so on, until when I really got openly involved was much later on, when I was no longer in that role, although I still worked in government. I was not in a position that would appear to be that direct conflict and we supported and were collaborated with Dudley Laws on a number of issues going on.

Speaker 3: 40:43

So when Dudley Laws died before he died I remember Valerie Steele and I were arranging to we weren't certain of Dudley's financial circumstances and so we decided we were going to create, we were going to get a group together to look at this and to do something so that, if needed, we would be able to give him the send off that a man of his statue deserving of a community. So while we were doing that, we Dudley got very sick. He went to Joyceville Penitentiary as a group that he supported, at the Penitentiary's every year, but particularly at Joyceville in Kingston, and so he went there and he was very sick and when he came back he went straight into the hospital and he never made it back out, but we kept visiting him and this and he pleaded with Valerie and I and Logie not to make Bardsy die.

Speaker 3: 41:57

And Bardsy was in real trouble. There was a big debt and all these kind of things, etc. Etc. And that was weighing like a millstone on his head and we had a fund raise up and we raise money. We Dudley was still in hospital we set up a link not to zoom, it was a Skype link to his bedside that he could participate with and interact with people, and we raised some money and we were able to pay off the debt for Bardsy and when they told him I wasn't there tonight, when they told him that Logie and Valerie told him that we paid off the debt, he was overjoyed and he went to sleep and never wake up.

Speaker 3: 42:53

So from that time on we carry out the pledge to keep Bardsy alive and keep in the world going. And so, because of my multiple skill sets, I do a lot of things for Bardsy which normally the organization wouldn't do, because but I've been able to intervene and assist people in all kinds of situations. So that's how, when we got involved at this point and I do I am the communications director, the social justice director and the social service director and so I do most of the heavy lifting with respect to this and so on, and the public speaking, the public front for Bardsy in a lot of ways, while we rebuild, Kinsley, you are definitely an example of displaying how education can move mountains.

Speaker 1: 44:00

What advice would you give to our young people in our community about how important it is to receive the proper education in order to reach their goals?

Speaker 3: 44:13

Education is extremely important, but not only formal education. I can tell you this, that mentorship. When I came to Canada I was a loss. I was following the Martin Luther King movement in the United States. I had read his book. I went on my way to the interview at Bellevue Hospital. I bought his book on the train from Montego Bay to Kingston why we can't wait. And in that book he sets out the whole scenario of the pressures on black people in the United States and in it was a prolific letter. One of the most prolific piece of writings I've seen is a letter from Birmingham jail and that transformed my life and that put me in touch with B focused on these things, and I was blessed with the opportunity to meet him face to face.

Speaker 3: 45:24

In 1965, he delivered an address at my brother's graduation from university, a West Indie School of Social Work.

Speaker 3: 45:37

So when I came here I was eager to learn and to know.

Speaker 3: 45:44

And when I met with people like Charlie Roach and them on, harry Gary, who was a founder of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Carporters, and so on, then I traveled to Toronto to ground with those people and to be mentored by them and learn the ropes you do not get in those days they thought that I could be doing what I do today Could never cross my mind.

Speaker 3: 46:15

I was just there to get involved and to be part of the action, recognizing the problems we had in Africa with the white domination of Southern Africa and committed to it. And at that point we were all a number of us were committed to even become gorillas to go to liberate it if that became necessary. So it was those kind of passion and this for the pride of the black man and the work of Marcus Mosiah Garvey and that propelled me to do these things and to learn. But I know that knowledge gets imparted by those with knowledge and experience, and so I relied on those people. I was a very young man and they were my seniors and they had the experience, and in this you want someone. So I was there, participating with them and learning at the same time.

Speaker 2: 47:20

Sungs to me as if you had an open mind and an open heart and you were willing to learn. And very often we use the metaphor that we're standing on other people's shoulders. We say that to our young people in our community and there's no question that you sit on people's shoulders and you recognize that and people now can stand. Younger people can stand on your shoulder because of what you've offered, what you've done for a community, what makes you who and what you are today.

Speaker 3: 47:53

Okay, my background, my parents. I was born in a very small village in St James, jericho, st James. Today no one lives in that community. It doesn't exist. The land is just literally abandoned there. Today Everybody have moved away. But my parents.

Speaker 3: 48:16

My father was a seven day Adventist lay preacher. He planted churches all over St James and another, and he guided us in those principles. And then, of course, in small community everybody knew everybody and everybody get along and so on, and if you misbehave they get it to your parents and this type of thing, those things. So I was guided by that, by my parents, the church, the community and those type of things. And I remember at age 14, I had a dilemma because there were some expectations of my peer group and the church had certain expectations which were similar to my parents' expectations. But there was some divergence. And I'm saying, if I was to please everybody that had an expectation of me, I would become confused and wouldn't know who I am.

Speaker 3: 49:16

I decided at age 14 that I was going to make my own decisions. So myself first, please myself first and everybody off. Not that I was going to be a selfish SOB, but what I'm saying. I did not feel I could be like a piece of paper blowing in the wind. They're blown by this one from this side and from that side and so on.

Speaker 3: 49:47

I need something to uncomment and that was through biblical teachings and those biblical values, and so that anchored me and influenced me in everything I did, as well as some of my earlier experiences of the self-reliance and this type of thing, those things. And pride, self-pride. We need to be able to feel proud of what you do and to be accountable, and that was what anchors me and dominates everything I do in the community. For instance, in all those things you'll notice my resume I gave you one that is complete community service. In all of those there is not one task or one function that I pay that I got a red cent in compensation for. My services could not be bought in that rate. I believe in what I do and I do it because I'm into community building.

Speaker 1: 50:53

Kinsley, I can definitely say you know who you are and you did not allow individuals or communities or any movement to decide your fate, what your goals would be. You have a tremendous amount of education that allowed you to meet your goals and your expectations not anyone else's. I think that in itself is a lesson that needs to be passed on to our people, letting them know that education is part of the answer in order to receive, or see people receive, the benefits of what's good in the world, and you, as being that beacon, help all of us to be able to see that and how the importance religion plays in all of this, and I think in most black communities and most black families, religion does play a part in the cultivating the good in us. I want to thank you so much, kinsley, for taking the time to talk to us, to give us your story, which is absolutely remarkable. We would definitely like to talk to you in the future and, once again, thank you very much from Speak Up International. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 52:21

Thank you very much. There was one question on there which was perplexing, which I didn't get to. If you have time I don't know if your time limitation otherwise I would try to address that one.

Speaker 1: 52:34

Go ahead, kinsley address it.

Speaker 3: 52:36

Yeah, you'd ask me about my career path in government and what was the position that I had in government that I believe was most impactful.

Speaker 3: 52:50

That's true, yes, it is a tall order because most a lot of the impactful things I've done has been from the volunteer. In volunteer roles. However, I have worked for three governments in Canada the Alberta government, the Yukon government and Ontario government, where I occupied a number of positions. If I were to say this, that the most impactful things come in both the volunteer and with that, and of all the positions, I believe my most impactful was a position with the Yukon government as the senior social worker and social development worker for the Faro-Ross River region. The Faro-Ross River region is 200 miles from Whitehorse and 200 miles from Dawson City.

Speaker 2: 53:53

And.

Speaker 3: 53:54

I was fresh out of graduate school, I mentioned earlier I was leaving Edmonton to take up this position. But what was unique about it? Having studied community and international development, my first job offer was as a country director to direct an exchange project between Canada and Somalia in East Africa. But at that point I am out of school but I still had thesis work to do. So I was not sure how I would get all the research done that I needed to do within a finite time if I accepted a position in Somalia.

Speaker 3: 54:35

So I got interviewed for this position in the Yukon because this one industry town was in serious jeopardy of closing.

Speaker 3: 54:48

They had the social worker that was in charge run into an accident and got permanently disabled and couldn't go back.

Speaker 3: 54:59

They had nobody in there at the time and there was a massive labor dispute between the mine operators and two locals of United Steelworkers of America. At the same time there were tremendous other social issues in that town. But the adjacent town, ross River, was an aboriginal community that was in dire distress. They had severe violence and drinking problems associated, drinking problems where when people start drinking, anybody who does not drink have to flee town and so on, and there was a tremendous amount of child abuse and neglect and this type of things, et cetera. So I saw a lot of opportunity to do my labor relations skills, my community development skills and well as my social service skills in that milieu, and so I got the job. As a matter of fact, canada World Youth that offered me the job in Somalia was pressuring me for a decision whether I was accepting or not After I took that interview and I saw the situation and so I alerted them to the fact that I had to make a decision very soon, so they speeded up their decision.

Speaker 1: 56:32

This ends part one of creator of positive groups, featuring the remarkable Kingsley Gilliam. If you would like to contact Kingsley Gilliam, connie provides your name and your email address and send it to info at speakuppodcastca. Please stay in your email you wish to contact Mr Kingsley Gilliam. Would you like to be interviewed by Speak Up Exclamation Point International? Please drop us a message containing your name, company name, the service you provide to your community and email address to info at speakuppodcastca. You can reach us using Facebook, instagram, twitter and LinkedIn. To connect to our podcast, use Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up Exclamation Point International. You can also find our podcast using our web address, wwwspeakuppodcastca. Our logo has the woman with her finger pointing up, mouth open, speaking up. You can find part two of this podcast on Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up Exclamation Point International. At Speak Up Exclamation Point International, we aim to inspire, to inform, to educate and enlighten.