Empowering Others, Amplifying Voices: A Versified Journey with Order of Ontario recipient and Entertainer Dwayne Morgan

Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Speak Up International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:16

Since 1993, our featured guest, Dwayne Morgan, has been a fixer and integral part of Canada's spoken word world. He is the two-time Canadian National Poetry Slam champion. Dwayne is also the founder of Up From the Roots and recipient of multiple awards. There's so much more that I can add to this introduction, but I prefer for our guest, Dwayne Morgan, to tell his own story. Dwayne, the mic is yours. We welcome you to Speak Up. International.

Speaker 3: 0:58

Well, thank you very much. It is an honor to be here with the both of you this morning. To you know, talk about my journey and what I've been up to. So, as you mentioned, I'm a spoken word artist, a writer, a performer, an event producer, and I have lived a life to this point, beyond anything I had imagined for myself. And you know, just try to take that inspiration and use it to inspire those who are around me and those who are coming after me.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Dwayne, I felt so proud when I stumbled on to your latest award that you received. You received it from a very notable individual.

Speaker 3: 1:38

Tell us about that, please so, um, on the first of january, the lieutenant governor of ontario announced that I was being appointed to the order of ontario. For anyone who is unfamiliar, that is the the highest civilian honor that anyone living in this province can uh, can achieve and can be bestowed upon you. So I think, um, it was, uh, it's a very humbling accolade because you know, it recognizes a body of work that is, you know, three decades in the making it. It uh acknowledges uh work that is significant, not just, you know, in Toronto or Scarborough where I grew up, but this significant for you know the entire province and my commitment to culture and to education and to race and to equity and to all of these kinds of things.

Speaker 3: 2:33

And I think you know, when you're busy doing the work, you often don't know if it means anything to anybody, if anybody is watching, if anybody even cares anybody, if anybody is watching, if anybody even cares. It's actually a very lonely process to do the work you know in community because you see a vision that you don't necessarily know if anybody else sees or understands or gets. So there's a lot of, you know, personal sacrifice, because oftentimes you're the only one who sees the vision that you keep working towards. So when an accolade like this happens and someone says, oh, we are recognizing this vision, then it makes it all make sense. So, definitely, it's a great honor to have bestowed upon me.

Speaker 2: 3:20

Well articulated. You are so correct You're doing the work and you're enjoying the work and you're immersed in the work and you don't know if people are noticing. So well said, dwayne. Thank you so much. Now tell our listeners what drew you into the spoken word world.

Speaker 3: 3:39

Well, it's a very interesting story and it's one I share a lot of. You know, I do a lot of work with young people and I visit a lot of schools and school boards, and I am actually a shy, quiet introvert who does not like speaking to or in front of people. So doing something that requires me to be in front of people was never something I envisioned for myself as a young person growing up, and the first time I got on stage was in my high school as part of a talent show, and at the time all of my friends had some kind of talent, so they were all going to be in the talent show and I didn't want to be that one kid who was in the audience when all of their friends were on stage. So I had to figure out how can I get on stage in the talent show and I figured, if you have no talent, the easiest thing to do is to write a poem.

Speaker 3: 4:29

So I wrote a poem and there were two women from an organization called the Tropicana Community Services Organization, who just happened to be in my school at that day at that time, who heard that poem and they came to me and they said you have to keep writing, you have to keep telling stories. And they took my phone number and every time there was things happening in the community they would call me and they would say, can you come and do that poem? And they just kept bringing me out around the city doing this one poem. And you know, that poem started to get on my nerves because everywhere I went people were asking to hear this one poem. So I decided to write a second poem and 31 years later I'm now speaking to you because I kept on writing poems.

Speaker 3: 5:09

So it was never something that was part of my vision, it was just something that I did to be on stage with the rest of my friends. But again, one of the reasons why I give so much back is because there were two women who didn't know me and they poured into me. As a young person. They saw something in me in a time when I didn't see something in myself. So now, because they poured into me, I pour into so many other people in so many different ways just to pay it forward, because I understand what that level of support can mean.

Speaker 1: 5:43

It's amazing how women play an integral part of what men do, and without women sometimes the train can just pass us by and we don't even notice it. You talked about doing the work and how you're moving forward. You're just doing the work and moving from one gig to another. What happens when you have a moment to do? Let's say, perform 20-20 vision. You know that whole thing about hindsight is perfect vision. What do you see?

Speaker 3: 6:20

Well, you know, I mean when you. One of the problems I think of looking backwards is that you can find problems that you never even knew were problems when you were going through them and then when you look back you could say, oh, that was problematic, that was this, that was that. So I don't I I don't tend to spend too much time looking backwards because I've already survived backwards, I've already figured out how to overcome backwards. There's always something in front of me that everything I've done backwards has prepared me to deal with what is in front of me. So I try as best as possible to stay very much forward looking and understanding that everything that happened in the past is preparing me for where I am today and the challenges of today.

Speaker 3: 7:16

The things that I've gone through in the past really helped me with the younger people that I mentor, because it allows me to tell them where things were before me, before them, so that they could see what the journey is and figure out where their place is in that journey and in that trajectory of things. So, you know, I think also when you're dealing with hindsight, it has to be done with a certain level of grace and compassion because, again, you didn't know certain things back then that you know now and you could say, oh man, I would have done it this way, or would? You didn't know that back then. So you have to be able to look at at yourself and your journey with with grace and compassion, be able to say you know what, with the resources that you had, with the knowledge that you had with who you were, then you did the best that you had. With the knowledge that you had with who you were, then you did the best that you could do, and that has put you where you are today.

Speaker 2: 8:08

I hear that. I hear that loud and clear. And in order to offer grace and compassion to others, one must do it for oneself first, or one isn't authentic. So that's a nice thing to think about. So we talked a little bit about in your bio, about Up From the Roots. Expand on that for us, please what is Up From the Roots?

Speaker 3: 8:35

So Up From the Roots is a business that I started when I was still in high school and you know, after that first talent show I realized how many of my friends had talent but had no platforms. There was no places for them to perform. Growing up in Scarborough, there are still very few art centers and art spaces and stages in Scarborough. Scarborough is very much underserved when it comes to the arts. At the same time, Scarborough has also produced some of Canada's greatest artists, so it's a very interesting thing to look at how little is invested there in terms of culture. But Scarborough has given the world the Weeknd the Barenaked Ladies, Mike Myers, Jim Carrey, all of these people who have roots in this place where there is no opportunity for arts and creativity. So I decided to start a business putting on talent shows, and up from the roots the name was taken from the Marcus Garvey quote of people without knowledge of their history is like a tree without roots. Because I wanted to make sure that we were utilizing the arts to keep our history and culture alive, and part of the whole up from the roots idea was that we weren't going to do things where we were going to be dependent on grants, but that we were going to reinvest our money into all of our events so that we were self-sufficient and never dependent and nobody could say you can't do this, you can't do that because we weren't asking anyone for anything. That being said, at that time there were very few grants anyways, and there were a few grants that dealt with people of color, a few grants that dealt with youth. There were no priority, there were no priority neighborhoods at those times. So, you know, we just had to fend for ourselves and at the time nobody wanted young black kids, young racialized kids, in their venues. So, you know, I had to just find whatever space that I could get. So one of the first, you know, series that I produced was an event series called Black Love, and we would do it in a fit for life gym. That was the only venue that would allow me into the, into the their space.

Speaker 3: 10:55

And at the time, you know, we would all come dressed up in you know dress, pants and dress shoes and the ladies wearing you know the skirts and dresses, and you'd have a band and you would have singers and poets and dancers.

Speaker 3: 11:07

And then you look to your left and there's somebody on a treadmill and there's somebody on an elliptical machine and it was like hey, this is the space, this is where we are at, this is what we have access to, so we're going to make the best of it. And I often tell this story to younger people because oftentimes we want all of the circumstances to be perfect before we start, and I always say just start. Start with what you have, Start with where you are, Because in that starting, there are lessons that you are learning that are going to help you to get to where it is that you want to be. But the circumstances are never all going to be right, are never all going to align, and if you're waiting for that, you run the risk of never starting and never beginning. So just look at what you can do where you're at and start.

Speaker 1: 11:54

Good lesson to learn and something that we, as a people, probably should say in the morning when we're looking in the mirror before we move forward with our day. You talked about a lot of the Hollywood stars that have come from that area, where you are, from where you live, and so I want to know what figures have you performed with? That was like an oh my God moment. I'm performing with this individual.

Speaker 3: 12:30

Yeah, I mean, definitely the biggest one would have to be, you know, President Barack Obama, and that was, you know, a. Yeah, he was the president of the United States, but he was the first black president of the United States. So it holds a different level of significance. And I think you know where my mother grew up in Jamaica on Wednesdays there's still no running water. And you know when I look at things and put things into perspective and think, wow, look at this person who comes from this place where there's no running water even in 2024 on certain days, and here's their son standing on stage in a picture with the first Black president of the United States. How can we not say that anything is possible? How can we not say that if you're willing to do the work, things can't happen Like? This is living proof of these kinds of things that, despite you know circumstances, upbringing, who your parents are, if you're willing to do the work, doors find you and doors open up for you. So I think definitely you know, being on stage with Barack Obama and getting to meet him is definitely going to be a life highlight and a career highlight.

Speaker 3: 13:46

I've also been on the same stage with Alicia Keys, russell Peters and a number of other Canadian talents, and all of it is just such a blessing because, again, what I do as a poet, you know, there's no radio play, you don't get, there's no music videos. So the question then is what are you doing here? How did you get here? Because you're on stage with people that everybody knows, because they hear them on the radio, they see the music videos and all of these things. And then there's me. They hear them on the radio, they see the music videos and all of these things, and then there's me, and I think that just speaks to work, ethic, tenacity, to seeing myself beyond what other people see, and again it's speaking to that whole idea of having a vision.

Speaker 3: 14:37

So for me, I mean, we live in a world of titles and labels and as often as possible I try to avoid those labels because then people want to pigeonhole you into that label. So I often try to resist saying I'm a poet or I'm a spoken word artist or I'm just this thing, because it's very limiting. So I consider myself to be an entertainer and my ability to write is the vehicle that I use to entertain people, which means that I could write a play, I could write a movie. I could write a poem, I could write anything, because my vehicle is writing. So that is the way that I look at myself. That allows me to imagine myself beyond what a poet might think they're supposed to be and where a poet might think. You know, this is what I should do and how I should approach my career. So I try to think of myself in a much broader kind of way and act accordingly to create more opportunities for myself.

Speaker 2: 15:43

You're so correct. We live in a world, in this progressive world or society, where people are inclined to put you into little boxes. This is where you belong. You're a singer, you're a dancer, this and so it's to your advantage and to the world's advantage for you to see yourself larger and more capable than that. So I like how you responded to that question. In your bio, Dwayne, you said that you're an advocate for gender equity. Expand on that concept for us, please.

Speaker 3: 16:20

So I have a show that I produce every year called when Sisters Speak, and it's a show that I do. It's now 24 years that I've put this show on and it's a show strictly for Black women poets to get on stage and perform and to share their story. This was before the Me Too movement, this was before the you know Time's Up and all of these kinds of things where people were, you know, looking at, you know, equity and gender and space for women and all these things. I was already doing that. I was already creating space. I already understood that there are certain privileges that I might have as a man that I can use to create space for women and for other people, and I did that.

Speaker 3: 17:07

I've done other shows that are not poetry, shows that are specifically for female artists to come and perform and to be in the spotlight, and I go in the back and I don't perform anything and I just this is your space to do this and I think it's so important to understand the power and the privilege that we have.

Speaker 3: 17:33

Sometimes we're like, oh well, you know there's racism, there's all these things, yes, but there's other aspects of your life where you might have power and privilege and what can you do with that to make the road easier for somebody else?

Speaker 3: 17:44

I think tying that into becoming a father to a daughter, then it's also more incentive to how do I create a world that makes her life easier, that gives her more possibilities, that allows her to see her father, creating space for women, and I think you know that is also, you know, very important.

Speaker 3: 18:05

So you know, one of the books that I came out with not too long ago was called Period and Other Lessons from my Daughter and it's a collection of poems that really deal with, you know, gender, but from a male point of view, trying to understand the world you know through her eyes, trying to understand what she sees and know through her eyes and trying to understand what she sees and what she experiences. Because I've never lived through that, but I have to if I want to understand it. I have to talk to her about it. I can't just assume because I'm a man, I understand it. I've never lived in that kind of body, I've never had those kinds of experiences. So I think for me, when I look at who else can I advocate for women is a big part of that and again, the most direct beneficiary of those efforts will be my daughter.

Speaker 1: 18:55

You talk about creating spaces for individuals women to do their thing isn't readily available. You are a performer and I want to know about that major event that you performed in 2012. And where was that held?

Speaker 3: 19:16

So in 2012, I was part of I'm going to assume this was the Super Bowl in Indianapolis, indiana, and a lot of times people think that the Super Bowl is just the one day of the football game, but it's actually a two-week celebration leading up to the football. The football game ends the two weeks celebration leading up to the football, the football game ends the two weeks. So there are all of these things in the whole city. There are all of these things that happened leading up to the football game. And in 2012, someone that I had met and a woman that I had brought to Toronto from America was like oh, this is happening in my city.

Speaker 3: 20:00

I want to do a poetry event that is tied to the Super Bowl and just bring a bunch of poets from different places Because again, she was just being very smart there's such a spotlight on your city at that time, why not do something with your genre? That's just going to give more spotlight to what you're doing. So she invited, she returned the favor and invited me to come, going to give more spotlight to what you're doing. So she invited, she returned the favor and invited me to come down to Indianapolis and to just, you know, check out the vibe of the city and the vibe of the Super Bowl and just seeing, you know, all the setup and everything that's going on and, yeah, it was great to just, you know, be a part of that. So again, it's one one of those things.

Speaker 3: 20:40

I've brought so many artists to the city and not all of them return the favor and invite me back. So I was very grateful that she was like. You know, I want to get this guy from Canada to come, because one of the things you know with I've discovered with a lot of Americans is that they're so American that they don't even know what to do with the Canadian Black experience because it's not American. And my poems don't sound like the American poems, my accent doesn't sound like the Americans, so they're just like I don't really know how to deal with that. It's almost like there's a monopoly on Blackness that begins and ends in America and outside of that they don't even know how to deal with and articulate Blackness. That is not American. So I'm always very grateful when people are like no, I want you to come, because I think people in my audience, in my city need to hear a different perspective of Blackness, to hear a different perspective of Blackness.

Speaker 2: 21:39

Very, very interesting concept about life beginning and ending somewhere else and I'm not going to say where. Very interesting concept. I belong to a Toastmaster club and it is hybrid. It started off online and we've got members that are Americans and they find us rather curious. I must say, they find us rather curious, but they want to learn. They want to learn what goes on outside of their space, so we've got some really nice people. Dwayne Morgan On Speak Up International we seek to inspire, to educate and to inform and there's no question that your story will help us to meet those goals and I'm so thankful for that. Tell us about Dwayne Morgan at age 14.

Speaker 3: 22:35

So Dwayne Morgan at age 14. Again, very, very shy, very quiet. I always knew that I was smart, but I just didn't have the work ethic for school. School was not something that I found a lot of fun enjoying outside of the social aspects. I didn't write, I wasn't creative, I was just for lack of a better word just existing. I was just kind of there waiting for something to happen, waiting to find my way, Not too sure where my life was, was going to go.

Speaker 3: 23:17

So, you know, at 14, I was very much like many of the young people that I work with today and many of the young people that I meet who, you know, just haven't figured out what this life thing is and what their place and purpose is in it. And you know, it would be a few more years before that light bulb went off. But I was really, at 14, just kind of going through the motions of what you're supposed to do. You know at at 14, you just get up, you go to school I think I'm, no, I didn't have a part-time job yet yeah, Just up and to school. Back home, rinse and repeat every single day.

Speaker 1: 23:56

I think that's so funny Rinse and repeat. It almost sounds like you were living in a washing machine. Absolutely. I mean, it's the mundane existence at that point, because you just know what every day looks like and you're just doing the same thing every single day. I think that washing machine metaphor probably ended around 2018. Why don't you tell us about some of the notable awards that you won between 2018 and 2022?

Speaker 3: 24:29

So let me see, I received the I believe it was 2022 and I received the Celebration of Cultural Life Award, which was a big award from an organization called the Toronto Arts Foundation, and it just looked at career achievement and, you know, body of work, and it came with a $10,000 prize. So that was. You know, I'd never won anything like that before. So it was. It was again one of those you know, really, really great honors. And there was, prior to that, the Margot Bindhar Award that I also received from the same organization. Well, I was a finalist for the same organization and, again, these are Toronto-based awards and accolades and, again, to receive that kind of acknowledgement from your peers is very important and very rewarding. So much so because, for a lot of artists, their main focus is on themselves and their art, and for me, I've always split my focus between myself and my art and creating space for other people.

Speaker 3: 25:57

So a lot of people have benefited from the work that I do. A lot of people have been paid, benefited from the work that I do. A lot of people have been paid because of the work that I do. A lot of people have won prize money because of the events that I do so. A huge part of my career has been giving back to people and creating space for people Almost 50-50 between my own individual career and pursuits and creating space for other people. So there were so many people who are so happy that I won and was recognized for those awards because they also understood how they've benefited from the work that I've done, so it was also almost like a victory for them as well, so it was great in that sense.

Speaker 2: 26:42

Dwayne. Every February, we celebrate Black History Month, and that's extremely significant, I'm sure, for you, for me, because we all have history and, as you're aware, our history goes back a long, long way. How far back can Dwayne Morgan go in his family? How far back can you go, and did that person or that person, did that person, influence your life in any way?

Speaker 3: 27:13

So I can go back to my great grandmother, my great-grandmother who lived with us for a little bit of time when I was very young I can't say she influenced a lot because I was kind of too young to really be able to absorb a lot but my grandmother her daughter is probably one of my biggest influences and my grandmother was very much into church and they lived on top of the church and she was very much into giving and doing. You could never go, pop in and visit her and she not find something to feed you. She was that kind of personality who, no matter what she had, she could find a way to make sure that you had as well. And I think the growing up, watching how she treated people, instilled a certain thing in me around giving and around service and around understanding myself to be a vessel that has been filled with stuff for me to give away to other people. So I try as best as possible to live my life in that way, in the understanding that I am simply a vessel who is here to receive and then to give to others. So you know, a big part of that is I have to make sure that I prioritize the receiving because, as they say, you can't pour from an empty cup. So I have to make sure that I am receiving so that I have things to give.

Speaker 3: 29:02

And what often happens a lot of times, especially in the Black community, is that we see people who work in community. They deal with a lot of burnout and they deal with a lot of stress and anxiety and a lot of mental health things because they're not prioritizing the receiving. So they're giving, giving, giving, and even when their tank is on empty, they're still giving, giving, giving. But that is not sustainable, it is not healthy. It is not a way to make sure that the people that you are giving to are receiving the most. So one of the things that we have to do which some say you know, oh, that's selfish is you have to prioritize your receiving, otherwise what do you have to give? So you must make sure that you are receiving what you need so that you actually have something of value to give to others.

Speaker 1: 29:49

No words spoken that were truer. I think our mothers, at least for me, taught me that lesson.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Growing up, we didn't have much.

Speaker 1: 29:58

And it's amazing how Black women I guess I have to refer to them because that's all was some material that was given to them and make, do make wonderful things. And when you were talking about earlier about helping people by creating space, and how you had to deal with the space that was given. Okay, maybe it wasn't perfect, but here we go. People, this is just space, do your thing. Women, who have taught us that lesson, even for yourself, when you were talking about women, had a vision. They could see something that you didn't, and then you were able to create your vision because of what they were able to give to you. So, yes, it is really really important that we are able to receive before we are able to give, and speaking of giving, before we are able to give and speaking of giving. So, how many CDs okay, I'll say the word albums have you released since Silent Night?

Speaker 3: 31:31

Silent Night was the last one that I put out, the most recent. So Silent Night was my 10th album and again, for me it was. You know, I did a spoken word Christmas album, which people hear it and they're like what on earth is that? But again, I don't limit myself in terms of you know what people think.

Speaker 3: 31:51

I want to push the boundaries of imagination. I want people to know that, wow, at 30 years into his career he's still coming up with new things that nobody has heard of. He's still going into uncharted, you know, waters and then people have listened to it and they're like this is actually really different and really good, you know. So it was a great challenge to put that together and really think of what could a spoken word Christmas album be like. So Silent Night was my 10th album and at this point I have 14 books that I have put out and hopefully very shortly I'm going to start on the process of some of the books that are out of print, bringing them back as audiobooks so that people can still access. You know those poems. So hopefully by the end of the year, at least the first one will be turned into an audio book.

Speaker 2: 32:47

That is interesting and, as we said at the top of this show, we haven't seen each other for a mighty long time. I knew when you had one book, but now you're telling me you've got 14 books.

Speaker 3: 33:00

Yeah, yeah, there's 14 books in the catalog.

Speaker 2: 33:03

yes, the women that you talked about at the beginning. When you talked about them, you carved a little tattoo in my heart that these two women heard your first poem in my heart. That these two women heard your first poem and they saw something in you that you didn't even know exist.

Speaker 3: 33:27

Were you ever able to go back and say to them this is what you did for me uh, I'm actually still connected to both of those women, um, and there's never a time when we are in the same room and I don't tell them, um, and sometimes I tell them to themselves or sometimes I say it from the stage. If I'm on stage and I see that they're in the audience, I truly believe in um always honoring that and always honoring them. And and it's so important, because they didn't have to do it, they had no idea who I was. They had no idea who I had the potential to be. They just saw a black kid who said something on stage and they said you should keep doing that. And they went above and beyond to create spaces for me to do it. They didn't just say you should do it, they even found the spaces and said all right, come here and do it, do it. They didn't just say you should do it, they even found the spaces and said all right, come here and do it.

Speaker 3: 34:27

And you know, and the testament to myself is that I went, they called me and I showed up and I went and I had no idea what that was going to mean for me, what that was going to turn into, but as a young person, I had nothing else to do. So why not show up and why not see, and why not, you know? And I ended up. You know the I said they work for an organization called the Tropicana Community Services Organization. That organization ended up lending me the money to do my first book. I ended up getting a summer job working as a youth counselor for 10 years with that organization. So from these two women so many things happened that got me planted in the community, planted working with young people, getting comfortable being on stage, speaking to people that you know.

Speaker 1: 35:13

You just never know what that one word of encouragement can mean to somebody in a moment, and you know that is again why I spent so much time trying to encourage young people because of what these two women did. You are a collaborator. You work with so many people. You work with women. I want to know more or less. What about Driftwood Studios? Can you talk to us about that?

Speaker 3: 35:48

So Driftwood Studios is a studio company that's run by a friend of mine and, you know, years ago we were just talking about. You know, what can we do together? And I think you know so much of the things that I have done. It's just people just wanting to work, wanting to create things. So even with the Christmas album, one of my producers was like hey, do you want to try doing this thing? So he made the music. He would send me the music. I wrote the poems. Then we got together, we put it all together and it turned into something.

Speaker 3: 36:25

So with Driftwood Studios, we decided that we wanted to talk about something and it ended up being domestic violence. So we ended up filming a 10-minute movie on domestic violence that was based on a poem that I had called Three Knocks, and we did it. And then, next thing, we know it was in a couple of film festivals and here we were again. Nobody was getting paid, everybody was volunteering. You know, we were so young at the time that we just wanted to do something, we just wanted to keep ourselves busy, we wanted to be creative and and I've always been very honest with my limitations. So you know, you have to know when you can't do everything and you have to know what you're not good at and then you seek out those people who are good at those things and say, hey, can we work together on this thing? So you know, at Driftwood Studios they were great at film. So we ended up just working together to make this film and, you know, even to this day it's still very relevant and very poignant and I, like you, know how we did it, considering the fact that we had no money and so much of my career and so much of what I've done was done with no money. It was done with trying to figure out how can you get this done with no resources Because, as I mentioned before, there were no grants at that time.

Speaker 3: 37:49

There were no opportunities to get money to do these things. You just had to figure it out, and I'm so grateful because a lot of the younger artists growing up now are almost dependent on the granting system for support for the work that they do. They don't necessarily have that spirit of let me just go and figure it out, because it's always been, oh, go apply for this grant or go apply for this, and then, if they don't get the grant, they feel as though their idea wasn't important, and I've never, because of how, when I grew up. Grants don't dictate if my ideas are important or not. I dictate that and that's part of the whole. Going back to the idea of up from the roots and making sure what I was doing was sustainable, so that I wasn't dependent on other people for my ideas to be valid or to come to fruition.

Speaker 2: 38:45

I am really, really fascinated by what I'm hearing about you. As I said earlier, we've known each other for a long time, on each other for a long time. So then, who was it that introduced you to the first place where I met you the open mic um, do you remember where?

Speaker 3: 39:13

where that open mic was?

Speaker 2: 39:16

used to happen in St Clair at a bookstore okay.

Speaker 3: 39:19

So, um, I mean, so there's a number of of people so, um, I'm I'm also very blessed and it's a very interesting thing because I have some elders, you know, know, in the writing world that when they saw what I was doing, you know they reached out to me, but it was a twofold very interesting kind of thing. So I'm talking about people like Lillian Allen Clifton, joseph Devin Houghton. They wanted to congratulate me and let me know that they acknowledged what I was doing as a young person and that was very important to me to kind of have their seal of approval. But they were also very amazed and curious at where I was taking things, because, you know, for most of them they would be what we called, you know, dub poets and, coming from the Caribbean, they had a certain kind of style. And then there was me, born here, and my style was more synonymous with, maybe, hip hop and that kind of that energy. So it was a very symbiotic relationship because they had a wealth of knowledge that I was tapping into and I had a wealth of knowledge based on what I was doing that they wanted to tap into and it created this synergy of work and respect that we would do with each other and at the time there's a dub poetry festival and and and different things, uh, and I know that they had a hub on on St Clair, uh, for for a time as well. So, um, it was great.

Speaker 3: 41:03

And even going back to the, the, the Christmas album, I put out a video for one of the songs on the Christmas album and Clifton Joseph saw it and he called up people and tracked down my phone number and he called me like late one night I'm like who's calling my phone at this hour? I answered and it was Clifton and he was just like elated by this video. He thought the video was the funniest, greatest thing that you could do, you know, with spoken, and he felt it necessary to track me down to make sure that I heard him tell me that he loved that video and what I'm doing, you know, with the art and with spoken word and that sort of thing. So I think you know starting so young, having elders that checked for you, and now you know being older myself, and those elders are still there and they still check for you and they're still, you know, proud of you and you're often you don't see them as much anymore because they're in. You know different worlds and that sort of thing, but you know that that love that was created many years ago still exists and still has been cultivated.

Speaker 3: 42:16

And I have been blessed by so many elders Ms Burke, yourself included who saw me as a young person and just wanted to help because they saw that I was trying to do something. They saw that, oh, this guy's a mover and a shaker kind of person, this guy's going to get things done. So people went, you know, above and beyond to help facilitate. You know some of those things the Honorable Jean Augustine, whether it's Dr Rita Cox, like you know, people who have just been in the community who every time they see me, this is like oh, this is my other son, and I think that is. It's such a beautiful thing for me to be embraced by all of these elders in the community, because that's always the greatest badge of honor if the elders are proud of you.

Speaker 2: 43:17

We've interviewed Lillian Allen for Speak Up International.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Oh, awesome, a famous woman, very kind individual. That was a memorable moment for Speak Up International. Speak Up International, speaking of which. We have been on every continent one way, shape or form, where we've been able to reach out and touch the lives of thousands of individuals, and with that comes great responsibility For yourself. You've been to many countries and regions due to your work. Can you tell us about some of the regions, countries that you've been to and the one that maybe was an eye opener for you?

Speaker 3: 44:07

So, yeah, so I've been, you know, across the entire Caribbean. I've been almost most of the countries in Europe. I've been to Turkey, I've been to Ghana, uganda, south Africa eye-opening of my travel experiences, probably because it was the first one, but also because it didn't go particularly well and it was one of the first performances that I can recall doing that didn't go well, because up until that point, and even since I've just been used to them going very well. And when I going back to the thing about the hindsight, when I tried to question why it didn't go well, I realized that so many of my poems were about Scarborough and about Toronto, that being in Germany. Nobody sure that I'm creating work that is more global in its sphere, so that no matter where I go, the work is relevant.

Speaker 3: 45:37

Traveling is understanding that your body of work as an artist must be able to transcend language and space and culture and all of these kinds of things. So since then I've been into environments where the audience didn't even speak English and I'm performing, and then the other part of that is then you learn that the words are only part of the understanding. It was amazing to do these performances and have people come up and try to talk to me afterwards about what they got from a performance where they didn't understand the words, but they understood the feeling, they understood the vibe, they understood the body language, they understood all of the other ways that I was communicating while on that stage. So a lot of my travels have given me things that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

Speaker 3: 46:23

I wouldn't have really understood how to utilize space when I'm on a stage Because, again, most times as a poet, it's just you and a microphone in a big space. Right, but I had to learn that communication and the performance isn't always just the words. How do the people who don't speak the language understand it? And then that informs. Okay. I got to really put some other elements into my presentation, especially when I'm going to be traveling to places where English isn't the first language or it isn't the language at all. So that first trip to Germany and it not going well was one of the greatest things to ever happen.

Speaker 2: 47:03

Sounds to me like you're talking about the adage know your audience, know your audience, absolutely, absolutely. So, dwayne, let's suppose you were given the opportunity to address a graduating class of males, black males. Offer us three gems that you would share with them during your presentation.

Speaker 3: 47:36

Wow, that's a great question. So I mean, if I was talking specifically to Black males, I think the first thing that I would say is, in order to be a powerful person, it begins with responsibility. It begins with taking responsibility for yourself and for your choices and for the outcomes of those choices. So oftentimes people will say things like, well, I didn't have a dad, or I didn't have a positive role model, which is valid and it is fair, and there's lots of research in terms of you know the outcomes of those young people. But at the same time, when something goes wrong with my phone, I go on Google and I look for the sir. So can we still utilize that as an excuse? Because I could watch Uncle Phil on the Fresh Prince and I could see an example of fatherhood. You know, when I grew up, it was the Cosby Show. I could see an example of fatherhood. So it's not just I didn't have it, so X, y and Z. It's not just I didn't have it, so X, y and Z. That's an excuse, because if you want to see an example, there are examples and you can look for the examples. So the first thing I would say is you have to take responsibility. The second thing I would say is that your life matters. No-transcript like, oh, there's a black guy who's going to be at the front, who's going to be talking even before I've said a word that is significant. My presence matters. So understanding that you matter simply for existing, is very important. And then you have to ask yourself well then, what am I going to do with that? How am I going to utilize that? And then the last thing that I would say is that you're allowed and supposed to be happy. You're supposed to experience joy. You're supposed to experience laughter. Life isn't just about gloom and doom. Oh, I grew up here. Oh, I don't have money. Oh, this, that, that. Find the joy in every single day and in every experience.

Speaker 3: 50:23

We kind of touched on it before, but throughout my travels for business or pleasure some of the happiest people I've met are the people who have nothing. Some of the most generous people I've met are the people we would say they have nothing. They would offer you something and you want to turn it down because you know that they don't have it to give. But that is insulting to them, because they want to give it to you, because that is just part of their joy. It would make them happy for you to accept this thing from them.

Speaker 3: 50:56

But then we come here and we have all of this stuff around us. We have all the technology, all the buildings, all of these things, and we struggle to find joy, we struggle to find happiness, we struggle to find laughter, and I think that is part of our birthright we are supposed to enjoy every single day, no matter what it is we're going through. Of course we're human. There's going to be death and grief and all of these things. That's part of the experience. But even in the experience are we able to find the joy and the happiness that we are supposed to have? So I think those would be the three things that I would want to speak about.

Speaker 1: 51:35

Dwayne Morgan, you have been a artist way before. You were introduced to the world back in 1993, which, wow, wasn't really that long ago. When you look at it because I'm assuming that in anyone's life you look at 1993 and all of a sudden it's 2024 and you're like, wow, where has the time gone? You have talked about your awards that you've won since 2018, 2022. You talked about the very prestigious award that you've just won, which was absolutely amazing, and when I read the announcement on LinkedIn, the only thing I could do straight away was go, wow, this is a Black man picked this up. This is wonderful.

Speaker 1: 52:29

Your collaboration has allowed you to create spaces for individuals women to be able to perform, to be able to show their talents and to give them a voice. You've been in many countries and you've learned a lot from that, and I think exposure is key in whatever you decide to do and to allow yourself to fail. Germany, you said, was not actually planned, but you did learn a lot from that that our audience will pick up on. This is definitely something that I want them to realize and recognize that the emphasis on quality is only through the hard work that you've done over the years, and I am looking forward to finding out or hearing what you are doing five years from now, 10 years from now, because the spoken word, I think, is very, very important for individuals to receive.

Speaker 1: 53:52

I find that listening to spoken word allows me to remember. I may hear music, and it's great, but I may not remember the lyrics. But in spoken word it's a different thing. It's something that you can attach yourself to and enjoy. So I want to thank you for this morning being with us on a Saturday no less, which is admirable in itself, and we're looking forward to having you again in the future, if you desire Anytime.

Speaker 2: 54:32

So I am certainly impressed, and I'll tell you what will remain with me for as long as I remember the fact that you talked about symbiotic relationships, because that's what makes a community grow. In some ways, I guess you can talk about it as the village that we like to talk about. In some ways, you could see it as a metaphor of my standing on your shoulders and people standing on my shoulders. So it's so critical to our community and, even though we probably haven't conceptualized it, that's exactly what we do as a community. So then, in closing, would you like to take us out with one of your poems, mr Dwayne Morgan, please?

Speaker 3: 55:25

For sure. So, yeah, this one just kind of touches on. It was inspired by my daughter and it touches on, you know, some of the things that we're talking about around gender and that sort of thing. So, um, but my daughter told me that she was being teased by one of the boys in her class. I couldn't help but laugh, knowing that he had picked the wrong one, a girl with a razor sharp tongue who would sharpen her edges on a fragile ego just for fun. If provoked, I let her know.

Speaker 3: 55:54

The next time he loses his mind, simply tell him you're only doing that because you like me, but say it when he's with his friends, watch him shrivel up like the Wicked Witch of the West. Because the worst thing for a boy is to be caught having emotions that aren't anger or aggression, to be forced to be held accountable for his actions and intentions. And who's teaching the boys that no means no actions and intentions? And who's teaching the boys that no means no, not, maybe, not, maybe she didn't mean it, not. Maybe I should try again later.

Speaker 3: 56:19

Until such time that boys no longer feel a sense of entitlement simply because of how they were born, I will continue to be a thorn in their sides. A parenting vigilante okay with me too as a movement, but not wanting it to be a part of another generation's reality. So I've given her permission To snap at any boy who thinks that snapping bra straps is cute, to clap back at anyone who gets confused, thinking they can touch without permission or invitation. And who's teaching the boys that their unsolicited opinions are okay? Until such time that things change, I will continue to teach her to be careful, know where the exits are, yell fire instead of rape, watch your drinks. Traveling groups until such time that boys will be boys ceases to be used as an excuse freeing them from taking responsibility. I will question who do these boys become when they are taught that it is taboo to love, to like to feel?

Speaker 3: 57:08

Every three days across this land, a woman or a girl is killed, 90% of the times at the hands of men. Who's raising the boys who grew up to be them? Who's teaching the boys that rejection is just another part of life? Until such time that missing a shot with a girl is treated with the same nonchalance as missing a shot in a game, I will continue to teach her that pain doesn't mean I like you, and to be wary of predators cloaked in affection, because there are some who will seek to build themselves up using the broken pieces of your self-esteem, pieces broken by their very own hands. Who's teaching the boys not to use their words, to have expectations for the bodies of others that they would never accept for their own, to act as though they are owed simply because they were born male, with no other virtues? Have you ever questioned who's teaching the boys? Yeah, I get it Me too. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 58:00

Thank you, dwayne Morgan, for enriching Speak Up International with your story, with your presence and with your poem. My pleasure.

Speaker 3: 58:10

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 58:20

Thank you for listening to Speak Up International. If you wish to connect to Richard Dwayne Morgan, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Mr Morgan to wwwdwaynemorganca. Are you interested in the opportunity to be interviewed and have your cause promoted by Speak Up International? We invite you to connect to us by sending a message that includes your name, company or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community, and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Worried about your confidence as an interviewee? Don't fret.

Speaker 1: 59:10

Speak Up International can provide you with the necessary training so you shine during an interview. To receive training information and a 10% discount about the Speak Up International Podcast Institute e-training program, email us at info at speakuppodcastca. At info at speakuppodcastca, you can also reach us using Facebook, instagram, twitter and LinkedIn To connect to our podcast. Use Spotify or your favorite podcast platform and search for Speak Up International. You can also find our podcast using our web address, wwwspeakuppodcastca. Our logo has the woman with her finger pointing up mouth open, speaking up. At Speak Up International, we aim to inspire, to inform and to educate.