[00:00:00] Elton Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!
[00:00:15] Rita Burke: There seems to be a trend. Yesterday, we spoke to a homegrown community builder, and today again, we'll be speaking to a homegrown community builder. To be exact, we'll be speaking with Rosemary Sadler, who is a diversity inclusion equity consultant and a social justice advocate.
She's also a researcher, author, and was a president of the Ontario Black History Society for 22 long years. Rosemary has spearheaded the establishment of February is Black History Month nationwide and secured the recognition of August 1st as Emancipation Day. Rosemary has played a pivotal role in the creation of the National Day for the Honorable Lincoln Alexander.
In addition, she has provided expert input to various organizations on race relations. Rosemary has contributed to African Canadian curriculum development, national exhibits, and publications. She is the author of seven books on African Canadian history and is committed to social justice. It certainly is with pleasure and delight that I introduce our listeners to Ms. Rosemary Sadlier!
[00:01:47] Rosemary Sadlier: Oh, wow. Thanks so much, Rita. That was quite an introduction!
[00:01:52] Elton Brown: You have spent a lot of time over 20 plus years to help our communities move forward and take, what belongs to us. Black History Month was something monumental. It was a monumental task in order to have this month recognized as Black History Month in Canada.
Can you tell us some of the steps, sacrifices that you had to make in order to make sure that we, as a people, have this month for ourselves?
[00:02:35] Rosemary Sadlier: Wow! Um, before I answer that, let me just say that I absolutely am, um, building on and standing on the shoulders of so very many people that went before me and people who helped me along the way.
And while we won't go into all of the details, um, I do want to honor Dr, um, Carter G. Woodson. Uh, 1926, having the idea to have this. Opportunity to focus on the contributions and achievements of people of African origin in 1926, and how that grew ended up coming into Canada under the auspices of the Canadian Negro Women's Association.
The 1st celebration within the black community was hosted by a person who went on to become a citizenship court judge, Stanley G. Grizzell. The 1st celebration within the black community was hosted by a person who went on to become a citizenship court judge, Stanley G. Grizzell. And, um, ultimately it landed with the Ontario Black History Society in 1978, and by 1979 they had secured the first official Proclamation of Black History Month in Toronto, and it was that sort of brought it from being a thing that happened, perhaps in the black community in Canada to a thing that happened very broadly in the community, or at least it was the beginnings of that.
Um, then we jumped forward a few years and I become the president of the Ontario Black History Society after having been a volunteer presenter, a volunteer board member and presenter for a couple of years. Um, building up a community of interest, going into schools, going into bookstores, going into, um, many public spaces, uh, advocating and encouraging people to learn more about black history in this country.
Because I think that was the, it still is frankly, but it was definitely one of the hurdles. The idea that there were black people in Canada, um, everybody who was black had to have been from someplace else and just arrived as if there was one boat that arrived one day, and everybody got off in 1967. Um, which was really far from the truth, and I knew that from my own lived experience, nevermind my research.
So, uh, when I, that was among the things that I was finding repeatedly. And, um, I think it's important for people to realize that part of the challenge was just helping to educate people that Canada had its own history of black history, if that makes any sense. So anyway, I started this process of, um, I realized when I became president, very accidentally, I showed up on time for a meeting that, um, we almost lost.
This formal proclamation with the city of Toronto. I was at home with 3 kids. Um, my youngest was still nursing. I didn't know I was supposed to go to the city of Toronto and say, please, may we have black history month? And, um, I did what I could to pull that together quickly because we'd missed the deadline.
And, um, I thought, okay, this is not never going to happen to anybody again. So I, um. Got it for that. I became president in 1993, October, November, around that time. So I was able to get it for January, for February, 1994. And I also worked on making sure that we got it with the province of Ontario. And I began the process of asking various members in the federal government to make Black History Month a national thing.
Um, I wasn't hearing back from people and this is a time when it was hard to follow up because it meant a long distance phone call, which was an expense and I was not paid. I had no budget to do that. It meant mailing letters, which took. You know, delayed response time or faxes, which were terrible because the ink tended to rub off once they were received on the other side that it was just not ideal.
So I happened to run into one MP at a fundraising event at the home of a well known black man in Toronto, Denim Jolly. And I, he was holding a fundraiser for Jean Augustine, and I confronted Jean and asked her if she would, um, support this. And she spoke with lawyer, um, Lloyd, um, Lloyd, oh my gosh, what was Lloyd's last name?
Anyway, that lawyer, um, he was, um, it'll come to me in a minute, she went to another room and spoke with him briefly, and when she came out, she had agreed that she would support this initiative. So that meant that I was now supplying her office with Black History information on an ongoing basis. I created the first Black History website in Canada, which doesn't exist anymore, but it was, I did it.
And, um, by December 1995, I, her office contacted me to let me know that I should watch CPAC because the final reading was going to happen and it was going to, it was hoped that it would be passed. It was passed. And then I was in the only. Non elected person. Yeah, uh, in Canada to join the platform party, um, uh, which was the prime minister of Canada, Jean, the black caucus, which was a handful of black members of parliament, including, of course, gene Augustine and a couple of others to address the nation on the occasion of the election.
Of the first, excuse me, uh, the occasion of the first Black History Month in Canada. So, all that to say that it was a lot of resilience and patience and hope. Um, because it wasn't the kind of thing that required, like, armed masses, it was the kind of thing that required, um, determination. for sharing. And, um, growing up in this country and having had the experience of repeatedly hearing that we were not here, that there was no black population, that if there was a black population, we hadn't done anything the counter to that in my mind was affirming our presence through having something such as February is Black History Month.
[00:10:08] Rita Burke: I lift my hat and I applaud you Rosemary Sadlier for having had the wherewithal, the nerve, the guts to pursue having Black History Month celebrated nationwide. We really, really applaud you for that.
I like something that you said. They always thought that the boat just came in 1967 and dropped us all off. That is. That is fodder for humor, but I'll let us pass by that right now. You have done a lot of advocacy work. Share some of it with our audience, please, apart from the Black History stuff.
[00:10:48] Rosemary Sadlier: Okay. Um, well, I guess the other one would have, I'm Opal Lee.
I think that's just the reality. Um, In, around the same time, I was approached, different, different routes, but same intentionality. I was approached by the president of the, of the Caribbean Historical Society of Trinidad and Tobago, and he felt that we should, in Canada, should be also celebrating August 1st as Emancipation Day.
And I got this phone call at home because before coven, there were actually people who did what they did out of their homes. And I was so Saturday 1, Saturday night at 10 o'clock. I get this phone call from a stranger and this is what the conversation was about. He remained in Toronto for a couple of weeks, and we were able to do a number of things while he was here, uh, and including planting the seeds to having a successful passage of August 1st as Emancipation Day with the City of Toronto, with Metro Toronto, and ultimately with the City of Ottawa.
Um, he went back to Trinidad. I continued that advocacy, um, and it went to, it ultimately resulted with the first unanimous bill. With the province of Ontario that was passed in 2008, uh, led by, um, Ted Arnott, Maria Van Bommel, and Peter Cormos. So all three political parties worked together to support this and make August 1st happen in 2008.
But it had gone to second reading nationally. With, um, on a, on a private members bill that was put forward by Deepak Abdrai, uh, who was a member of parliament for Calgary West and he freedom was very important to him because he had, um, been expelled from Uganda. Um, but unfortunately, he died before it was ever passed.
Um, then it went to 2nd, reading twice in the Senate under Senator Wanda Thomas Bernard and didn't pass. And it wasn't until a motion by, um, Majid Jahari that it was ultimately passed unanimously in Canada's House of Commons in, March of 2021. It only took over 25 years to see this happen.
[00:13:28] Rita Burke: Only 25 years. Now, Rosemary, before Elton asks his next question, let me kind of dig deep into this question about August 1st. Why should August 1st be significant for our community?
[00:13:48] Rosemary Sadlier: If Black History Month says that we're here, then I think August 1st answers the other question of how were we here, and what did we do? And although both come up, August 1st can't, the, the sense of what is Canada is challenged by August 1st. And August 1st, um, Canada, um. Canada is a wonderful place to be.
I, I, you know, it's, um, there are, there is no perfect country in the world that I'm aware of. Um, but, um, one of the narratives that one of the things that people think they just understand about Canada, so people can come here to be free. And that idea came from the fact that there was this thing called the Underground Railroad, um, which brought, um, people who were enslaved and wished to be, wanted to be free, of course, into Canada.
But what happens is that that's a particular point in time that obscures the reality that prior to the end of slavery, prior to, prior to that Canada had its own history of slavery, That was ended and at the end of our slavery, that's when people could start pouring into this country to be free. So it's an interesting interpretation of times and dates.
Um, July 1st, 1867 is when Canada became Canada. And technically, Canada did not have slavery July 1st, 1867. But the lands that we now call Canada did have slavery for 200 years prior to 1867. And that slavery existed from, for sure, from 1628 with the arrival of the first named enslaved African, but there was, there were other enslaved Africans here before that.
Um, and did not end until August 1st, 1834. So 1834 is a troubling and wonderful moment in time when the slavery that existed in, on the, here, um, ended. And it also, um, is a date that connects us to other places in the world that were controlled by Britain, because it was the British Imperial Act that ended.
Um, slavery in British countries, such as Jamaica, uh, British controlled countries, or, or, or Trinidad and Tobago at one point in time,
[00:16:44] Elton Brown: You contribute so much of your time and yourself over the span of many years. Tell us about your contributions to the Royal Ontario Museum.
[00:17:00] Rosemary Sadlier: Uh, I've done a couple of different things with the Royal Ontario Museum. Um, I was on the Africa committee, which helped, which came into being once the new crystal wing was established.
And, The new crystal wing, it's very unusual looking addition to the very traditional, formerly incredibly traditional looking ROM, um, they wanted to expand the collection out and they wanted to work with members of the community, including well, a few members of the community to determine how they should do that.
And one of the things that we. Really hope they would do was include Egypt in the African section, because that is essentially what the crystal was part partially going to be housing. But they were not willing to move Egypt from where it was situated in the museum. So that was a bit of an unfortunate aspect to that.
But some of the, the good part of that is that I was part of the unveiling of a permanent exhibition created by an artist called El and Sui. And, um, that still remains as part of the Africa exhibit, um, at the ROM and the New Crystal Wing. I also was part of, although I didn't organize it, the event which marked the Apology of the Wrong to those members of the community who had been harmed by arrests and negative commentary following their protest about some horrendous, um, and racist, uh, exhibits that the ROM had hosted in the past.
Some of those people actually had to leave the country in order to thrive. So, the ROM is, um, is complicated. Um, I remember visiting the ROM at some point in my life and seeing some, an exhibit. I don't know what the exhibit was called. And, um, there were statues, images, artwork of animals.
And with the animals were also statues of Black African people. Like, they're all the same, all animals. I should just qualify the exhibit that they were most protesting was called into the heart of Africa, and that
[00:19:42] Rita Burke: I remember that story well and I know, I know several people who were directly involved, and they're still around. But as you speak. I feel. A sense of determination. I feel a sense of hope. There's no question about that because generations following us need to see that determination and that hope in generations ahead of them so that they could embody those things to move our community forward. Now, who is your audience for equity, diversity and inclusion?
Who's your audience?
[00:20:26] Rosemary Sadlier: Everybody, um, I think, um, I think, you know, just what you were saying on 1 hand, people who look like us need to know that there are efforts being made to, um, support and encourage and, you know, create. Uh, whatever, depending on what the issue is, um, black voices and, and, and black inclusion, black representation, but it's also for.
Um, who in my instance, because I'm now doing diversity equity and inclusion also as a consultant, it's, um, those entities that will consider hiring me. And, um, or that those entities that want me to come in to do a keynote speech or a workshop, and those entities have been very diverse from, um. Suppliers of beauty products all the way to.
Uh, law firms, and I think that, you know, one of the wonderful, terrible things that followed the murder of George Floyd, even though that took place in the United States was a spark in consciousness and awareness that I hadn't seen ever before, uh, where people who don't look like me were aware, even if they didn't want to be aware.
That there were clearly some discrepancies and inequities that were being that were there and in the society. And so, um, I've done things with women's organizations as well, where people need to also understand the significant experience of black people. And, and the, the challenges that we face as a group, no matter how long you may have in resided in Canada or, or the United States, um, those challenges persist.
Um, but it's also, I think, um, it's. I want to, like, in terms of the things where I'm not hired, the things that I just do, because they're important to me. It's because. The work isn't done. Um, I nominated, for example, um, Olivia Lejeune for National Historic Recognition. That process took about, I don't know, five years.
And finally, it was approved and there was going to be a monument created for him. And it happened in October 2023. I'm just going to share this with you, actually, because it's such, it speaks to the, how things are so unexpected.
Um, so I'm in Quebec City for the unveiling of a plaque dedicated to the first named enslaved African in Canada. So, I got into Quebec City and the night before, um, I'm at a hotel and I go for a walk in the neighborhood because I'm thinking, I'm not hungry, but I want something and all the restaurants near where I was staying to me seem to be lovely places for couples to gather.
And I didn't feel like I wanted to go in as a lone person and English French is my second language, not my first language. So I thought, okay, I'll just have something to eat in the restaurant in the, in the hotel. I stand there because there's a sign indicating that you should wait and you'll be seated and somebody kept coming by walking by looking at me walking by looking at me.
The restaurant is not full the hours. It wasn't the closing time kept walking by walking by finally the person comes to me and says, you're still here?
And I said, yes, um, I would like to be seated. And he said, Oh, we don't serve, you know, I'm, we're not serving you. You can't, we're not serving you. And I'm looking at him thinking, did I just mishear? And I realized I'm, I'm working now in English. He's working in English. He's trying, I've been doing French. He was clearly telling me that he was denying me service.
And I was, I've never, I mean, I've experienced all kinds of racist things in my life. But I've never had something like this where it's so blatant, clear, and in my face.
[00:25:22] Rita Burke: So in your face!
[00:25:24] Rosemary Sadlier: So I turned around and I spoke to the front desk people of the hotel. Um, and I had been, we had a great relationship. I did my, my, you know, registration in French, so we were friends, but they also had news how to speak English.
And they said, long story, but they basically said it had happened before. So I wrote a very long letter to the hotel manager And sent it to him. He met with me the following morning and, um, it's not resolved because I haven't found the ways to work it through, um, the Quebec system. I know what I would do if it was in Ontario, but the point I'm, I guess I'm trying to make is that every once in a while, aside from the fact that people think that there are no black people in Canada, still, that we've, we're all recent arrivals.
That we've done nothing. Um, there's also this reality, this other idea that we're post racial and everything's okay.
[00:26:30] Rita Burke: Yes,
[00:26:31] Rosemary Sadlier: I thank you for that. And that was for me, just one more reminder that everything's not okay, um, that we're not post racial. That the challenges are still real.
[00:26:46] Elton Brown: I agree with you about the George Floyd incident, and it did open the eyes of many people, non black, to the point where they were protesting in the streets, saying how wrong this is, and thank goodness we had the technology to be able to record it, so there was no need to explain anything or to describe how the situation was. We were able to see it using our own eyes and not have to justify or weaponize it. It was just there. I think you do the same thing in your publications, where you are allowing individuals to read, African Canadian history so they understand it for themselves, not listening to somebody else.
So tell us. What notable publication have you authored on African Canadian history that has made an impact?
[00:27:53] Rosemary Sadlier: Well, I've actually written eight books, Rita. And, um, one, one is just coming out now and, and the book that's kind of, you can preorder it now on Amazon, but it's, it's called the kids book of black history in Canada.
Um, It's a completely updated, revised version of my bestseller that I wrote a number of years ago called The Kid's Book of Black History. And, um, it's got all new artwork, and in it, it meets a need that I have a personal need, because I think that black history education is something that needs to start early.
Now this isn't a kid's book like for, you know, grade one. This is a kid's book for middle school, and I think it's also a good read for a good general read for people that want to become acquainted with the topic, and then they can, you know, go and do additional research on certain things. But that's one book that I have coming out.
The kids book of black history in Canada. Um, by Kids Can Press, but I've also written books about Black Lincoln. I've written a book with others on black history. Um, it's called black history, Africa, the Caribbean and the Americas, which was done by Montgomery publications in Toronto and has been updated and is now issued by Delmore buddy day learning center and in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
I've written a book on Harriet Tubman that's with Dunder and press. And for that book, the research I did for that book, um, is over years and I actually had the opportunity to meet some of your American followers might appreciate that this, some of the American descendants of Harriet Tubman. And I was able to re at one number of years ago to reunite some Canadian descendants of Harriet Tubman with some American descendants of Harriet Tubman in Philadelphia at Mother Bethel AME Church.
Um, and that one of those American descendants actually is was she's deceased now. Um, may she rest in peace was Mary Lee Wilkins and she seemed to have been able to acquire all of Harriet Tubman's. Possessions, many of them, including a shawl that had been given to her by Queen Victoria. And before it ended up in the Smithsonian, I had the chance to to hold that and a number of other artifacts. So, um, I've done a book on Marianne Shad Carey. And, um, a few others. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:46] Rita Burke: You talked about your kid's book of African Canadian history. And I've said this to you many times. I don't know if you remember me saying, Rosemary, why call it a kid's book? Because I like it. It's a staple in my bookshelf. And as you said, there's no question about it, for anyone wanting to begin learning about African Canadian history, that should be their go to.
And I'm really delighted to hear that it's being revamped and it's going to be available very soon. It's one of my favorite books. One of my favorites. It's on my shelf.
[00:31:19] Rosemary Sadlier: I actually, I can't. I don't have the copies, but I have, I was finally sent a hard copy and it's amazing. Um, but, but you, most people can only pre order right now.
I don't think that they can get their own copy in hand for another month or so.
[00:31:36] Rita Burke: So you talked a lot about everything that to me wraps up the word hope, the word determination. What is the quotation that guides your life?
[00:31:53] Rosemary Sadlier: That's a hard question because there's so many. Um, I, um, I would probably connect it, um, to my church. Um, and one of the things that came out of that, that I think I internalized way too well, was not for ourselves, but for others. And, um, my mother was a missionary with the BME church. And, um, That was their motto.
And because I got dragged along to a lot of meetings that she had, I was referred to for a very long time as the littlest missionary of the church. But that motto really, I think it did come to direct so much of what I have done. And I, I think that it makes it very easy for me to, um, hold the needs of the community as a trustee, rather than, um, to own and have a different kind of agenda.
But I think when I'm talking to people also, um, I think there's so many more create more current ones, like, be the change you want to see, um, like, you know, everybody has something that they can do in, in the area that they are working because black history is not just names, dates and events. Black History is about having all of our story, all of our complexities, included in everything.
So it isn't just about knowing that there was slavery, it's about knowing that we are great artists. It's not just knowing that we were, um, we, Mary Ann Shad was the first Black woman publisher in North America. It's also about knowing that we have these amazing spoken word artists that we can go and see.
It's, it's, it's all of it, because we are so underrepresented, and, and I'm just going to say this, I mean, African Americans may not realize this, but in Canada, there has been no required black history, uh, programming. And so it isn't like we're looking at a population of people who have some background.
They, they do not, um, black history comes up, maybe when there's black history month. And while there are pockets across the country, where there are net, there is now some measure of a black history curriculum, it's not. It's not universal. Um, there's, you know, most places don't have black history. Um, so having doing the books or, or, or doing the advocacy is a way of helping to raise awareness and encourage other people to get involved.
[00:34:44] Elton Brown: There are many people that Rita and I have talked to who are moving in that direction in order to make these things happen, where Black history is a normal part of Canadian history, not talked about as something separate or something that's supplemental, but actual Canadian history. I want to move to something that I've been dying to talk to you about.
I have seen your face all over LinkedIn. I'm so sorry. Oh no, no, no, don't be sorry! There's a reason. You've received an award. So can you tell us about your most recent award?
[00:35:32] Rosemary Sadlier: I guess I've kind of received two recent awards. One was the first award of its kind ever issued by the Toronto Police Services called the Terry James Trailblazer Award for my efforts to initiate and um, initiate the formal commemoration of February's Black History Month.
And that happened at the beginning of the month. And then at the end of the month, the end of February. I, the, the public announcement was made that I have been, I'm about to be awarded an honorary doctorate from University of OISE, University of Toronto.
[00:36:21] Rita Burke: Three cheers, three cheers, three cheers, well deserved, Ms. Rosemary Sadlier!
[00:36:26] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you. And, um, I'm really, really honoured by that, um, some really amazing people are, are also going to be getting a doctorate at the same time as myself. Thank you. Um, but yeah, I, completely unexpected.
[00:36:43] Rita Burke: So you often speak with groups, you speak with young people, you speak with older people. I think sometimes you also speak with children. What three gems would you give to a graduating class of educators? You had an opportunity to speak with them. I want to hear three gems that you would leave with them.
[00:37:05] Rosemary Sadlier: I always try to encourage people to. Um, look at the history and look at the challenges that people had previously see where they find themselves now with fewer horrendous challenges, but still challenges. And see where they, what they can do with the skills that they have to make a difference. I encourage people to look for areas that are unjust unfair or problematic and find ways that are within their interest area.
Like, if they're scientists, then you, you do it through science. If you are an athlete, you do it through athletics, whatever it is you can do. There's a way to. Use what you have to address some element of Black history, Black joy, Black something. Do it. Do that. Um, and, and I think the other thing is if they can't do it, um, that they should support those people who are.
Um, support those organizations that they are comfortable supporting, um, support those students who they think they can support, depending on what kind of audience I'm speaking to. Um, I think it's, it's about an ongoing effort of us doing what we can and us as in black people. Facing these issues, but also the non black people I'm speaking to who consider themselves unable, but maybe they are able, maybe there is something that they can consider doing to allies are always helpful.
[00:38:51] Elton Brown: Rosemary. It is , always good to talk to you. We always feel energized and inspired to pick up the sword and armor and continue the never ending battle against racism. We talked a lot about your contribution to Black communities, such as Black History Month in Canada, which I'll say again, was a monumental task for you to be able to get that through the establishment for August 1st as Emancipation Day, your contribution to the Royal Ontario. Museum. Okay, and I'll have to say this.
I don't like the shape of it. I had to say that I would have died! You distinguish yourself as a diversity inclusion and equity consultant, and social justice advocate. All of these things are so important, uh, and your 22 year tenure as president of the Ontario Black History Society.
You are one of those giants that people are going to have to stand upon in order for our communities to reach new height, and I can't wait for you to come back and visit us again. Congratulations on your last two awards and congratulations for your upcoming book, which should be out in June.
If I remember correctly and I really about oh, yes. And by the way, I've already ordered the book. So I, I want to, I had have to say that I saw the cover and immediately I fell in love with the book.
[00:40:40] Rosemary Sadlier: It, it's, it's, the artwork is lovely. Uh, I just have, I'm not an artist, but the art, the previous book, the artist was not from the African Canadian community. This artist is from the African Canadian community.
[00:40:55] Elton Brown: Wonderful! . That makes Rita so happy! I want to thank you again, and we're not going to allow two plus years to pass by before we have an opportunity to talk to you again, Rosemary. I promise you that, and you have a great morning and a wonderful weekend!
[00:41:15] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you. You too. Thanks so much!
[00:41:17] Rita Burke: Thank you so much. As usual, it's always a treat, a delight, a pleasure to chat with you. You certainly enlighten, you certainly inspire, you certainly educate when you tell your story. And as Elton said, this time you get in touch with us when you want to talk about anything specific and we would certainly be delighted to have you.
[00:41:40] Rosemary Sadlier: Thank you so much for that invitation. I appreciate it!
[00:41:44] Elton Brown: Thank you for listening to the SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact Ms. Rosemary Sadlier. Please be prepared to submit your name, email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Ms. Sadlier to info@speakerpodcast.ca.
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