Natasha Henry-Dixon's Chronicle of History: Infusing African Canadian Narratives into Education and Beyond

[00:00:00] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!

[00:00:13] Rita Burke: We call ourselves SpeakUP! International, there's a rationale behind that because we speak to people from all over the world this morning we spoke to someone from Birmingham, England. And here we are today, back in Canada, speaking with Miss Natasha Henry-Dixon. She is an assistant professor of African Canadian history at York University. She is a 2018 Banye scholar and has been researching the enslavement of Black people in colonial Ontario. Natasha has been an educator for 24 years and she has taught at the elementary and post secondary levels. She is an also And award winning author. So I would like for our listeners today to help me welcome Natasha Henry-Dixon!

[00:01:20] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Hello. Hello. Hi Rita. Hi, Elton. Nice to be with you. 

[00:01:25] Ellington Brown: Nice to be with you as well and happy International Women's Day! 

[00:01:30] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Thank you!

[00:01:31] Ellington Brown: Rita mentioned you are a author Tell us about one of your award winning publications. 

[00:01:40] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, yeah, I have a few titles. Um, my first publication was a book on the history of Emancipation Day commemorations in Canada.

That was published in 2010. Uh, and then I had a youth version of that book that came out a couple of years after that in 2012. I contributed to a series called the Sankofa Black Heritage Collection. I contributed three books. It's about a 15 book series. Uh, and so, um, two of the books or one of the books, sorry, in that collection won an award for, um, for youth published youth focused titles.

Uh, so for me, that was, um, quite a thrill to get that recognition for, for that title. 

[00:02:28] Rita Burke: Well, I do have this question to ask, but later on in our conversation, but given the fact that you're talking about your books and your first book, how about if you tell us a little bit about that writing process? Where do you begin?

How do you continue? And how does it end? 

[00:02:47] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, well, that was really quite an experience. That was, uh, my very first publication. I was a practicing emergent historian. Uh, at that time, I hadn't started my PhD in history yet. I was actually a classroom teacher who was actively developing curriculum resources on how to teach African Canadian history.

And so through that work, I was engaging with Um, right, the history of, of Black people here in Canada. And I happened to meet, uh, this couple, the publishers, Jane, uh, Gibson and Barry Penhill, who operated Natural Heritage Books, which was a small imprint focusing on African Canadian history. And they pitched this idea to me about, uh, writing a book on Emancipation Day commemorations.

I had also, um, I believe at that time we had this conversation in Owens Sound, which is the location of the longest continuous, um, commemorations of Emancipation Day. This year it's going to be, uh, I believe 168th? Or 69 consecutive years. Uh, just an amazing history. And so, uh, you know, when we had this conversation, I was quite interested in, in taking it on.

And so I agreed to take on the project and immediately began. Researching a lot of archival research, reading a lot of other historical texts, uh, and going through reading reels and reels of newspapers on microfilm, doing a lot of research, reaching out to a lot of different repositories. such as the Amherstburg Freedom Museum, the Chatham Wish Center, just so many local heritage and historical sites and organizations and so it really took quite a bit of time to Conduct the research and start to pull it together and it was such a transformative experience because, uh, as being born to, uh, parents from Jamaica, I was familiar with, briefly, the, that Emancipation Day was marked in, in Jamaica, but I had no idea that That Emancipation Day was commemorated in what we now call Canada since 1834, since the day that the legislation to abolish slavery in most British colonies took effect.

And so it really, again, for me, was very eye opening, uh, and I structured the book in a way that Gave, you know, particular attention to the people who were commemorating Emancipation Day, those who organized the events, the community members, the families, the institutions that they built and through looking at Emancipation Day commemoration, which acknowledge the passage of this legislation, uh, and the end of, um, right of chattel slavery, that I traced how the idea of freedom, uh, evolved over time from enslavement through to racial justice, um, you know, looking at some of the issues that these black communities faced in Canada.

 Racially segregated schools, discrimination in housing and employment, um, their involvement in, in civil rights movement, uh, and, you know, seeking, uh, legislative intervention in racial justice. And so I try to give this really broad overview of what freedom has and continues to mean for black people in this space, uh, called Canada.

[00:06:47] Ellington Brown: I'm going to go right to. one of the pillars of SpeakUP! International and that happens to be educate and you are definitely setting the foundation during this conversation exactly that as an educator. What level of education have you taught? 

[00:07:09] Natasha Henry-Dixon: I am, I, I've covered everything from kindergarten right now through to university.

Um, it's been now this year is going to be my 25th year of, of teaching. Uh, I've taught in a smaller, Settings private school settings in the public school and as I mentioned that at university at the university level. So it's, um, it's hard to believe it's been, um, you know, that amount of time, but I've interacted with, you know, a range of students over that time.

[00:07:45] Rita Burke: Do you know, Natasha, our guest earlier today told us. That from the time she was 11, maybe earlier, she knew that she wanted to be a lawyer. Well, how soon did you know you wanted to be an educator? 

[00:08:02] Natasha Henry-Dixon: I, I knew I wanted to be a teacher very early. I recall actually like, playing school and being the teacher, um, at around that same age at about 10, 11 years old.

And, um, you know, for me, it's something that I've always wanted to do. And so when I had the opportunity to kind of fulfilled two things, my deep interest in Black and African history and pursue my studies at York University, along with pursuing my, uh, teaching degree at York University. That's where I decided to attend and study.

So I, um, I earned both of my degrees, my, there at York University to pursue both. And, and, and, and obviously since then have merged the, the two in terms of, uh, researching and writing and specializing in Black Canadian history, but also, uh, specializing in developing curriculum to support educators at the elementary, secondary, and even university levels to teach about, um, African Canadian history.

[00:09:12] Ellington Brown: Not only are you a writer, but you are also a lecturer, and rumor has it that you are scheduled to give a lecture. Can you tell us a little bit about that? 

[00:09:27] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, in my role as an assistant professor, I teach two courses, a third year course and a fourth year course. The third year course is African Canadian history survey course.

Uh, and my fourth year course, my students focus specifically on the history of black people in this province in Ontario. From their earliest, uh, presence in the 1700s through to, um, contemporary times. And so, you know, that's, uh, a weekly, um, task for me, engaging with my students in the classroom. And then also, uh, there is, I also engage with the public, with the community more broadly and provide a range of public lectures on different topics related to my research and, uh, Black Canadian history broadly.

[00:10:18] Rita Burke: So I understand what drew you to education to some degree, but why study enslaved Black people? In Ontario, what was the, what was the pull factor? 

[00:10:32] Natasha Henry-Dixon: When I began researching, um, for my first book, I read the Celebrating Emancipation Day in Canada. I encountered so much information and you had previously, previously actually asked, you know, when did it end?

It's interesting because once you start, you never really end. It may have ended in terms of the deadline to submit and publish the book, but the research is always ongoing. Um, and so when I was researching for this book and framing it around the passage of, um, this legislation, right, the, the 1833, uh, Slavery Abolition Act as just a short title, um, As part of that background, I came to do more research to understand better about the practice of slavery here in what became Canada.

And there is an extensive history. There's, uh, slavery was practiced for just over 200 years under the French and British colonies. And, and so in my research for the book, that history, that context was important to understand What that legislation mean, that 1833 Slavery Abolition Act meant within this context of Canada, that it wasn't just about the, um, the colonies in the Caribbean, but it was very relevant here.

And so, um, there was only so much that I could include in the book in relation to the individuals, the men, the women and children who were enslaved here. In, in, in colonial Canada. And so then now when I sought to, um, pursue my PhD and had to select a topic, a research focus, I got back to the same research that I was, that I had done previously and kind of had, you know, set aside, but also was kind of, uh, when I had the opportunity, some personal time with continue to kind of peruse and, and do a bit of research.

And so I decided to return to that research and to dedicate my doctoral research to those individuals who were enslaved here in what was then called Upper Canada, now Ontario.

[00:12:51] Ellington Brown: Wow! Incredible. History is something that's in the past. That's why it's called history, but I believe that history sometimes has tentacles and those tentacles can reach to the present. How has history affected black people in a negative way because of its tentacles? 

[00:13:18] Natasha Henry-Dixon: While there are so many, um, connections between the past and the present, um, or even to say the past is present, right?

Uh, when we look at what Sadie Hartman calls the afterlives of slavery, there's so many things that out of that particular history continues to impact black life today. for listening. Um, you know, the way that, uh, Black people are treated or viewed as second class citizens or non citizens, as, as, as, as non humans, as, you know, um, people who should be, um, grateful for whatever it is, um, society deems fit for them to, to have and to be okay with what is denied to them.

Uh, we see the legacies of some of this history as it relates to the experiences of Black children in the educational system. Um, you know, not only in the United States, but here in Canada, there were racially segregated schools where Black children were, uh, excluded from attending, um, growing, uh, public schools.

At the time to keep them separate from white children. That was the wish of some of the white colonists in several communities, uh, you know, employment, um, discrimination, the kinds of jobs that black people were relegated to, uh, and when we see today, uh, black people, uh, attaining a certain level or, you know, Opening the door, so to speak, and becoming the first of something, uh, even though they've been here, people of African descent have been here for over 400 years, speaks to that history of exclusion and the barriers that they face.

Um, so there's, there's, there's, there, there, there are many where Black people, uh, reside, uh, you know, based on housing discrimination. Uh, there are examples in, uh, deeds, uh, legal deeds for property that had clauses that were explicit about who could and could not purchase or even attend on a property, um, including Black people.

Uh, and, and so we see, again, the ways that this continues to These things continue in the similar form or have evolved and morphed into different kinds of practices that continue to negatively impact Black life. 

[00:15:53] Rita Burke: Perhaps morphed into more subtle, subtle practices, but it still does exist. 

[00:16:00] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes. 

[00:16:02] Rita Burke: We are talking with Natasha, Henry-Dixon and on SpeakUP! International, we seek to educate, inform, and inspire through the stories of our guests. And there's no question that you're doing that quite well for us today, Natasha. I'm particularly curious. About the fact that you were once a student at York University, and here you are back as a faculty member. What does that feel like? Do you often have to pinch yourself?

[00:16:34] Natasha Henry-Dixon: When people say how God ordained your steps or there's a path set for you. Um, for me, my life's journey really speaks to that and you know, the way that I set out to pursue my interest, my passion without knowing where it would lead, um, It is really quite something.

And, you know, deciding some of the decisions that I made working in a private school first, as opposed to a public school, you know, pursuing a lot of the things that I did independently in regards to curriculum development and my historical research, publishing a book before I ever became a professor.

Um, and complete, you know, before I completed my dissertation, all of these things are just kind of my, path in my journey, and I didn't know where it would land, but I continued to, you know, to persevere nonetheless. And then, you know, just at the tail end of finishing my dissertation, um, at York University, you know, um, this position gets posted.

And I'm like, this says my name all over it, like, go figure, right? Like, this just says me. And I was extremely, uh, nervous in a sense, because it just seemed to me. Too good to be true, you know, that here is this position. It's focusing specifically on African Canadian history. Um, there isn't a position like that, that specificity in Canada.

There are other kind of, right, broader, um, you know, Uh, subject focus for, for, um, some of the professorships. And so it was a, I was a bit nervous because it just seemed, you know, too good to be true. And I'm like, can I, you know, can I claim this? Can I claim this and say that it's mine? And I did. And I did.

And it panned out. It worked out really well. Um, well suited for the position, and the position is well suited for me. So I completed all of my. University degrees, now my fourth degree at York University. So my Bachelor of Arts Honours, my Bachelor of Education, my Master's of Education, and now and recently my PhD in History.

So I've been at York as an undergrad since coming right out of high school, then as a someone Uh, you know, who started working and returned as a mature student, completing my master's and then, um, again, and then my, my PhD and now as a, as a faculty member. Uh, and so I've been at York for like 30 years and, um, I, so it feels like home to me to be there.

A very welcoming space and a space that I want to continue to work in, uh, to make the experience of learning and growing as positive as it was for me for the students that I encounter. 

[00:19:32] Rita Burke: Well, given the time that you spent at York, I think one of these days we probably will be calling you Madam President!

[00:19:39] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, I don't know so much about the administrative side. I think I'm a teacher, a classroom teacher at heart. I think that's where my interest lies, um, but anything to do with, you know, the experiences of students in the classroom, I think that would be, um, my focus. So not anything, uh, necessarily above that.

[00:20:00] Ellington Brown: You had a life at the Harriet Tubman Institute, as a curriculum consultant, how was that? Was it fun? 

[00:20:12] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Okay. Yes. So, the Harriet Tubman Institute is a research center at York University, and while I was just before starting my master's and then going into when I was completing my master's, uh, the Harriet Tubman Institute launched a project, two projects actually, Focusing on, um, uh, new, doing new research on African Canadian history.

Uh, the first project looked at, um, was called Breaking the Chains and looked at, uh, the Black experiences during the Underground Railroad era. And the second project focused on Black participation in the War of 1812. And so, uh, I worked as a, as a student as part of that, that initiative and contributed.

To some of the historical research and primarily focused on developing the curriculum materials, the supplementary teaching materials for this project, because the core goals of these projects were to provide resources for classrooms in order to teach these two aspects of black history. And so it was, again, another experience that helped to sharpen my skills that, uh, in terms of, you know, research and writing, collaborating with, um, uh, you know, people, a doctor careless, smarts, fraudsters, Adrian, Chad, um, Paul, Dr. Paul Lovejoy, and then Dr. Michelle Johnson, who were the executive directors of the center, um, you know, many other, uh, students.

Students as well contributing tremendously to that and then working also with Dr. Naomi Norquay who managed The War of 1812 project. A community, working with a range of community organizations and community members, something I continue to do today in the different aspects of my teaching and and researching.

Such as the Buxton Museum, um, you know, out in Windsor, the Essex County Historical Society, uh, just many community members that the community engagement was also very central to this research, um, and Niagara. As well, community members and organizations in Niagara, and so it really was, those experiences were fulfilling for me and really helped to solidify, uh, the way I wanted to approach my research in regards to, uh, to Black Canadian history, to work in collaboration with, uh, Um, these smaller organizations, uh, whose work is absolutely integral to the work that, uh, uh, you know, quote unquote scholars, uh, of, uh, African Canadian history rely on.

[00:23:06] Rita Burke: I, I, I like that. Um, I guess that is why We decided we wanted to chat with you and SpeakUP! International because we keep going back to our purpose and our purpose is to speak with people that we call community builders and I've known you for about 30 years now and there's no question that from the inception your eyes were set and your heart and building our community and I want you to know that I certainly appreciate, I certainly appreciate that.

[00:23:41] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Thank you!

[00:23:42] Rita Burke: Now, Natasha, you have taught at the elementary level. You're currently teaching at the post secondary level. Do you have a preference for the age groups of people that you work with? 

[00:23:55] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, you know, it's, it's kind of hard to say because, When I started my teaching career, I wanted to focus on middle school and, and I still, that is, you know, my, the area that I spent quite a bit of time with, you know, uh, middle school and, uh, and early high school.

Um, but then also in teaching, you have to kind of branch out at times, depending on where the need is. And so went into, you know, Covering all of high school and then actually it was the trepidation moved even lower to to kindergarten And I thought you know, how would I handle grade one and kindergarten?

But it was amazing to teach these young kids to see them grow from, you know, especially those just starting school just to grow to the end of the year or after two years and to see how they developed was so fulfilling for me, um, and helped me to adjust, uh, and really saw, uh, got to see first hand when we talked about the development stages of young people and I started getting to see that from the beginning through to right the other end was something and so I find, you know, some of the consistent things are just the levels of inquiry and interest and the questioning of young people I love that no matter which grades they are, which levels they are.

Um, the, the sense of accomplishment and being part of, uh, the sense of accomplishment that they, that they express, um, in their learning and in their growth. I like to see that in, in all of my students and, you know, the conversations, you know, the conversations may be different, but having conversations and interacting with my students at different levels is something that, that I like as well.

And so I think I just overall, um, just, just really like teaching, uh, young people at all ages, you know, recognizing that there are distinct things at, at each of those levels.

[00:26:01] Ellington Brown: Speaking of levels, , I'm a U. S. citizen now, after saying that, I'm going to say I am a U. S. Canadian. Okay. I just want to get that in there before I go any further. We didn't talk much about. In our history class about the Underground Railroad, let alone the war of 1812. I, I can understand why we didn't talk too much about the War of 1812 because, well, it got our butts kicked, so I wouldn't wanna talk about that!

[00:26:33] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Mm-Hmm. .

[00:26:34] Ellington Brown: When you're talking to young people. giving them this history, how quickly are they absorbing it? Do they have reservations? Do they come back and try to give you push back. I just want to know. 

[00:26:51] Natasha Henry-Dixon: These stories are always well received and students often will say, you know, particularly the older students that they never learned anything of this nature, or if the Underground Railroad was very briefly taught.

It's, it's like this kind of abstract. Thing where, okay, they, they got freedom in Canada and that's, you know, that's the extent of it. But who were the people who fled here? Who was responsible? Who organized and operated the network? Um, what were the, you know, ideas undergirding this huge movement? And so I delve, uh, in my teachings and in the materials that I've developed, I help, uh, students and educators to delve deeper into.

Those kinds of questions and to really put faces and names to those individuals, uh, and it is just a, these stories are just fascinating, absolutely fascinating, and I pair them with, you know, thank goodness today we have several documentaries that help to visualize the experiences and reenact some of these stories.

And students are enthralled by the, the drama, the risk, the, you know, of these stories. You look at, um, Josiah Henson's story, escaping and actually physically carrying his two youngest children. From, you know, from the United States from Maryland, making their way to the northern states and then across to Canada when his back was battered and literally broken and recently recouping from that, um, just because of the determination to be free and to avoid their families from being sold apart.

The work of, I always come back to William Still, black abolitionist operating, who operated the station in Philadelphia, um, and who collaborated with Harriet Tubman and many others to help usher several people to, um, to Canada, to this province, Canada West, now Ontario. And who bravely documented these individuals who came into his station, documented these stories, he would go and hide his notebook every night in a crypt in the cemetery, because for him to be captured with that book would mean his death and the death of others.

He would do that. And then when slavery was abolished in 1872, it was safe enough for him to publish that book. And when you go through these records and see some of the stories and some of the people who made it to this province and then trace them to the lives that the live they lived, it's just phenomenal!

Absolutely. Uh, phenomenal! When you look at some of the women. Who fled some choosing to leave their Children, some risking it and taking their Children with them to flee here to Canada West. Um, again, just the bravery that these people exhibited and then coming here and building community. Living in freedom, right?

And defining freedom as they went along, uh, is really intriguing stories. And so I'm, you know, my fourth year, of course, we have the opportunity to delve very deeply into this contact into some of these individuals. Uh, and I try to do my best to really, um, have them make deep connections to the stories and it never fails.

There's always stories that intrigue our students. One of the things that I do. With both of my classes is I, um, I have them go on a tour downtown Toronto, and I mapped out a curated a tour of different locations that connected to black early black history in the 19th century during that time period of, you know, the mid 1800s, the Underground Railroad era and movement.

Um, escaping enslaved people and, and free black people here and, you know, you know, they're, they're very moved by it even today, you know, they'll have, they have an assignment and again, a student is referring back to the tour that we did in September and saying, you know, can I refer back to that and how powerful it was for them to think differently about the space today and kind of right connected to this Black past in Toronto in the mid 19th century.

So, you know, those kinds of opportunities to delve more into these stories and to craft them in a way that humanizes these individuals and brings their voices, their faces and their name to light are important approaches to telling these stories. 

[00:31:40] Rita Burke: So what I'm hearing then is that you're bringing history off of the pages that people my generation's accustomed to opening a book and reading and thinking that we know history and you're adding life and meaning to history, particularly our history.

I am certainly impressed. More than likely you teach about the Blackburns as well, who are the people that I'm most fascinated with and there is a I am really, really fascinated with the, with that couple and what they did in Toronto. 

[00:32:13] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes. Yes, that couple, uh, their story is, I mean, talk about impact, right, and, and oftentimes I'll say some of these stories are just deserving of their own action movie because the stories themselves seem just, they seem unbelievable, you know, fleeing enslavement.

Being found out and detained in Detroit. Um, you're, uh, you know, the threat of your reenslavement caused a riot and people to break you out of jail and usher you across the Detroit River into this province. Um, you know, the, the U. S. government then, you know, sought them to be extradited and the British government, the colonial government here said we won't return them if they're going to face a harsher punishment and knowing that they would be re enslaved.

And their case was instrumental in helping to form, inform, um, extradition practices and legislation of this province and then they moved to Toronto. Um, the husband, he was working as an, as a waiter. In all the good love society, they resided in the ward, um, a neighborhood that had a lot of black residents.

Then they purchased their own property on the more on the eastern side and engaged in, you know, supported the Underground Railroad Network Freedom Seekers coming in to settle in the city. And then they start the first 

[00:33:43] Rita Burke: Taxicab company. Oh my word, that's a story and a half. 

[00:33:48] Natasha Henry-Dixon: That is a story. 

[00:33:49] Rita Burke: But I like that. I like the happy ending. I don't know if you can say it's a happy ending. That there's a building downtown that's associated with, I think it's George Brown College. 

[00:34:00] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yeah. 

[00:34:00] Rita Burke: That's named after the Blackburns and I think that's more than well deserved. 

[00:34:06] Natasha Henry-Dixon: More than well deserving. The archaeological study that was led by Dr. Carolyn Smarts Frost, who then wrote the book on them. I've Got a Home in Glory Land contributed heavily to that, you know, to what we've come to know about the Blackburns. They, their taxi cab was at the. In the, at the intersection of what is now Church and King Street. So when my students went down there, you know, they have this opportunity to kind of envision what that may have been like.

So these stories, um, are again, they're just, there's so many to tell. And, uh, and so I never get tired of sharing as many as I can. And then seeing the reactions of, uh, my students who, who just want to continue to learn more. 

[00:34:50] Rita Burke: And what I heard as well is that the TDC Colors. Are coming from the colors of the Blackburns taxicab.

[00:35:01] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, that was yellow and red. 

[00:35:04] Rita Burke: Yes. 

[00:35:04] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes. So I 

[00:35:05] Rita Burke: think everybody who drives in the TTC needs to know that. 

[00:35:08] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 

[00:35:10] Ellington Brown: So what does the phrase and I rise? What does that mean to you? 

[00:35:14] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Mm hmm. Well, you know, it's such a simple statement, but yet a powerful statement. It's it really. Um, embodies the experiences of people of African descent here in Canada, where, you know, despite the, you know, the atrocities of the transatlantic slave trade, despite, uh, you know, so many barriers placed in our way, the, the, the racial exclusion, the, the violence, um, that yet and still does not We rose and continue to rise above those we challenge those and efforts to squash those down so that ourselves and others coming after us can can continue to rise and so it's an embodiment of our experiences, but it's also a call to action for us to continue much like in the endeavors of our ancestors to continue to improve the conditions for for black lives.

[00:36:15] Rita Burke: So, we're called upon, I believe, by those that have gone ahead of us, those who have broken down walls and barriers, to create a world, to help create a world, to make life a little bit easier, to live the experience of other generations somewhat better, I believe we're called upon to do that. Natasha, Henry, tell me who or what is responsible for the person that you are today.

[00:36:47] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, without a doubt, my mother, um, who is such a strong black woman, uh, you know, I often go back to her experience and I think, and I just wonder in awe of how she was able to do. What she did, um, as a mother of five children, a single mother, um, all of her children completed school, you know, post secondary, everyone is, you know, had done well, had a lot of experiences as young people and opportunities, and she was able to do that for us, you know, within the kind of circumstances that framed our lives. And, um, it's not until I, you know, became an adult and a parent myself and kind of looking back that I can, you know, to understand, um, Um, what those circumstances were and really what the impact of that could have could have been if it were not for her strength and, um, you know, her wisdom and her perseverance for us.

And so absolutely, um, my mom, uh, my dad was ever present in my life, um, always very motivational. Uh, and, uh, encouraging, uh, you know, education was just paramount for, for my parents, for all of us. And so that was something that, you know, they ensured and encouraged and demanded of us to continue to, um, to pursue education as far as we could go.

And so, you know, it really is their support and their guidance and their parenting that has, uh, made me what I am today. And even though they didn't know, you know, when I say I'd want to do this, I'm doing this, and they didn't necessarily know what that meant, or, you know, how did that translate into a career and a good paying job they supported me. They believed me because they saw that is something that, that I wanted to do. 

[00:38:45] Rita Burke: What do you think your students would say about you? Because you know as well as I do, that when they leave the classroom, lots of discussions occur about teachers and about professors. What do you think they'll say about you? 

[00:38:59] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Well, I think my students would say that I am very understanding down to earth, that I'm very enthusiastic and engaged in my teaching and their learning, um, and their growth and their well being, um, that I'm very pleasant.

Uh, but also very knowledgeable and, um, uh, someone who has, uh, high standards for the work that they do in my, uh, and their abilities, and my belief in their abilities as well. So I think, and I hope all, you know, all my students would convey that about me.

[00:39:37] Ellington Brown: I lived in San Francisco for a while this also relates back to something that Rita had mentioned, and racism with a smile. They could do it in such a way where you're smiling with them, you're laughing and joking, and then all of a sudden it would slip in sometimes to let you know what your place is.

 I was working for an organization and I was the only black person there! So they were just totally amazed by the things that I was able to do. I didn't speak that street language. And I felt like I was a parrot. I felt like I was a trophy. And at the beginning, I didn't realize that this was very 

[00:40:28] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Insidious.

[00:40:29] Ellington Brown: This is, yeah, racism! That's what it basically was, only they did it with a smile. Do you find yourself helping your students be able to quickly identify, correctly, Identify these moves individuals do it with a smile, but they're detrimental to the mental and physical health of our community.

[00:40:54] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, um, that is, um, a core part of our conversations, uh, to be able to identify that. But not only that, to then connect them, to connect them to, um, to historical practices of anti Black racism, that, to give them that context. And so when they, we can, you know, make connections to the present, they will say, Oh, that's why.

Or when, um, black people are, um, you know, as we've always been, you know, up in arms about, uh, the, the, the, the disproportionate, um, outcomes of, of black students, negative outcomes of black students. Students in education that this has a long history, they can make those connections. It's not just because, I don't know, today, people just deciding that they wanna complain about something, that it has historical origins.

Right? And so, um, you know, helping them to make sense of these things or why something is today, is today the way it is. And another thing I, like, I, I pointed out to earlier, why is it that this is. The black person accomplishing this first and in the 21st century, right, is these are some of the things that I make connections to help them to make connections to in regards to the functioning of anti black racism in our society and how some of that has happened.

Remain the same, but as how some of it has morphed into different kinds of, as Rita had said earlier, some kind of subtle forms or insidious forms of racism. And so when they have that historical context, they can better identify and speak to those things. 

[00:42:31] Rita Burke: Natasha, is there anything that we asked you, we did not ask you, that you want to talk about?

[00:42:37] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Hmm, um, I think maybe, just maybe a bit more elaboration on my current research project on Black people who were enslaved in Upper Canada. Um, so we did talk about, Uh, how I came to the decision to, uh, make them my research focus, um, since completing my dissertation, uh, which was, by the way, such a, a fulfilling, um, emotional process to engage with this kind of history.

Um, you know, I really have come to put together A project that, uh, when I share it with the public through, um, the publishing of a book, you know, that it will really contribute immensely to, um, furthering our understanding of the long presence here of Black people, uh, in this country. And also, and specifically, the iteration of, uh, child slavery that took hold here in, in, in, uh, the colonies that became Canada.

Uh, a core approach for my research has been to, uh, create profiles, biographies for as many of the individuals who've, I, who I've identified, um, as being, uh, enslaved here in, in what is now called Upper Canada. A second thing that I also decided to do was to actually enumerate those who were enslaved to get a better sense of.

Um, the scale and the scope and the nature of enslavement, I've been able to identify just over 600, um, Black men, women, and children who were enslaved in Upper Canada from 1760, which is the transition from French colonial rule to British colonial rule, um, through to the eventual gradual abolition, um, of slavery.

And, uh, abolition of outright abolition in the 1830s. Uh, and you know, the stories are just so, um, so amazing to really humanize this experience within this inhumane, uh, horrific institution that, that stole their, their labor and stole their humanity. And so it's, I've been very intentional. In how I've approached this research in a way that gives honor, um, to their experiences as much as possible.

Uh, and so that's something that I will continue to do. So I just recently, as I said, completed my dissertation. I'm looking to publish the book. And alongside with that, I will be, um, in order to. Manage the information that I gathered of these over 600 individuals. I had to kind of create a data management system, if you will.

And so I have started a preliminary database that I am going to now really develop fully. And make it a public resource for people to learn about these individuals, because I did, I conducted research at different repositories across Canada, also in the United States, virtually online and in person. And so I have all of these kinds of bits and pieces and fragments from different places on these individuals.

And the intent of this, the database is that it'll bring all of these together. In one place, um, again to do better justice to, to their stories. Uh, and so that's something that, uh, that's the next step, um, of my research. I've already started to share some of these stories and they are very well received.

I wrote a chapter on one of the women who were, um, who were, who was enslaved, a woman by the name of Beth. And what was absolutely moving about her story is that in conducting research, I went to the Archives of Ontario, it's on the campus of York University, to do more research, and I actually found the bill of sale, the original bill of sale in one of the family's records that purchased her.

Um, to hold that actual document and have a document like that connected to, uh, the history of, um, people who were enslaved here, herself, Beth, and her young child, um, was very, um, It was very moving for me. And so I kind of made it, um, you know, part of my mission to tell her story. So that's one of the first stories that I told and published in a chapter in the book, Unsettling the Great White North.

Uh, the story of John Baker is also another story that I've been telling. Uh, I recently did a, an interview. With CBC on family day, actually, because they did an interesting thing is they wanted to, um, present his story and the story of his family in the context of families and read a black family that was enslaved here in Cornwall, in Upper Canada.

His story is amazing in that he was born into slavery in Lower Canada, now Quebec, during the tail end of the American Revolution. Um, their enslavers got their land in Cornwall and moved the family, uh, that they enslaved there with them. Um, John and his family would go on. His mother had, his mother Dorinda was, uh, transported from the United States here to, um, To this province and during the American Revolution, the when they were relocated, she would go on to have six more children who were all born because they were born from her body.

They were born enslaved to the family of Major James Gray. When he passed away, his son, Robert, inherited them. And in 1803, Robert broke his will, he became the first Solicitor General of the province, and he wrote his will saying that when he passed away, Dorinda and her family would be freed.

Unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately, he passed away the following year, going to a court, to a trial, Across east on the Lake Ontario. They were on a ship him and about 25 other people, including John's older brother, Simon, who was his personal service servant. The ship sank in a storm, unfortunately, Simon passed away.

Everyone on board passed away, but this resulted in the freedom. John's freedom and the freedom of his mother and his siblings. Then he would go on to serve in the war of 1812, return back to Cornwall, get married, was reunited with his sisters. Um, he had a brother who seems to have passed away at a young age and lived until 1871.

And he was known as one of the Last people who, when he died, was one of the last people who was born into slavery. Um, so I have some just fascinating stories that I, I like to tell. And then the last thing is that I, uh, the history, the experience of children who were enslaved is also very, Understudied.

And so I'm endeavoring to tell more of stories of the black children who were enslaved here. And so, you know, again, it's something that continues to lead me in different directions. But an aim is to really pull these stories together and then to share them widely. 

[00:50:43] Ellington Brown: Ms. Dixon, we need you! 

[00:50:46] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Thank you! 

[00:50:47] Ellington Brown: We need you so much for all of what you're doing, past, present, future, because all of these I'm going to call them stories are so important that they do not get lost in the sands of time. 

[00:51:04] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yeah, 

[00:51:05] Ellington Brown: I'm going to let out ask you, would you come back to SpeakUP! International and tell us a few of the stories. We've already way past the time but you were telling these stories one after another. Okay. I was lost in them! I 

[00:51:26] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Absolutely!

[00:51:28] Ellington Brown: Lost in them. I, you remind me of a teacher that I had. , He taught Greek mythology and he had a way of teaching it. I never had to study. I always got A's in his class.

I never had to, you would be one of those people. I would just be able to just totally absorb the information just because of the way that you, you, presented, uh, you worked at, uh, York University. You are definitely an educator. You've taught on so many different levels. You've won awards for your, for your publications.

You are a lecturer. You understand the responsibilities of being an elementary school teacher, educational specialist. Let's just throw that in there. Uh, and you also had a role at the, um, Ontario Workers Arts and Cultural Center. Heritage Center.

[00:52:26] Natasha Henry-Dixon: A particular project, yes. 

[00:52:29] Ellington Brown: Yes. You really have done so much for the Black community.

A lot of it that I don't think people have actually recognized, not because some of it's not out there, but I also know that some of it you're kind of keeping close to you right now because you haven't actually finished it yet, and you're not ready. Ready to release it, which I think is a good thing, not to, you know, you don't want to release it half baked.

[00:52:55] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, exactly. Do it just

[00:52:58] Ellington Brown: It's like, wow, you left out that part of the story? That's the part that I really was interested in. Doing what you're doing, it will mean so much to people today and a hundred years from now. Because If we don't know where we've been, how do we know which way we're going, you won't be able to know that.

So I want to thank you for everything today. I can't wait till you come back. I'm begging ya!.

[00:53:26] Natasha Henry-Dixon: I look forward to it. Thank you so much. This conversation is just been a pleasure. And this platform is, um, you know, it's an important platform to really get to engage with people to see who they were. How did they come to be and do what they're doing? And so thank you for taking the time to speak with me today! 

[00:53:46] Ellington Brown: You definitely are an extension of what we do. We're always looking for individuals who are community builders and so many of them, you never hear their names. You probably would never know their names and they're not doing it for fame.

They're doing it because it's the right thing to do for their community or communities. We want to get these people and get their stories So that maybe you'll come back along and catalog those too for all we know. 

[00:54:19] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, yes. 

[00:54:21] Ellington Brown: So thank you so much, and I really do appreciate what you're doing. And I'm hoping that, , I'm not going to hope, you're coming back soon. 

[00:54:30] Natasha Henry-Dixon: Yes, yes, definitely we'll do that. Thank you.

[00:54:33] Ellington Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International! If you wish to contact Ms. Natasha Henry Dixon,. please leave your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Miss Henry-Dixon to info@speakuppodcast.ca.

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