The Transformative Power of Education with Charis Newton-Thompson PhD

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Speak Up International with Rika Burke and Elton Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:15

We have had conversations on Speak Up International with people from a variety of points across the world. We've spoken with people from Brazil, from England, from South Africa, from places in the States. But today we're back home in Toronto where we are going to be talking with Miss Charis Newton-Thompson. The woman we are chatting with today was born in Guyana and since being in Canada, she has provided leadership in a variety of sectors. Charis was previously employed as an educator in Guyana, Jamaica and Canada for over 30 years. Her ultimate role in public education system was that of manager of curriculum resources, where she vetted with an equity lens curriculum material. Charis recently served as chair of the recruitment committee of the Toronto Seniors and is now serving in her second term as a member of the City of Toronto's Confronting Anti-Black Racism Advisory Committee. The last thing I want to say about Charis Newton-Thompson is that she is an avid and happy gardener and enjoys cooking and baking. I want her listeners to meet her guest today, Miss Charis Newton-Thompson.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Yay, hello, miss Thompson.

Speaker 3: 1:53

Thank you very much, rita, for your warm welcome and introduction, and also Mr Brown. I just want to say before we even start that I really appreciate what you're doing the recording of oral history from community members. I think this is a very important project that you're on and because it is for our community. We in the black community in particular, we don't tend to have that historical memory that is sustained within us. So when we have this repository of interviews with people who have lived in our community, then this will be helpful to our young people, because often they would start something and then they think they're the first to start it when things have been going on for many, many decades or even more than decades ago. So you are just doing a most valuable service to our community and I thank you just heartily for that.

Speaker 1: 3:09

I wasn't expecting such beautiful comments. I'm not going to speak for Rita. I'm going to let her do her thank yous. But thank you so much, rita. Is there something you want to say before we get into this?

Speaker 2: 3:24

I want to echo what Karris says, because she is quite correct in saying that very often, younger generations will start something and think that they are the first ones out of the gates, when indeed they're walking the footsteps or the shoulders of people who have done a lot, a lot, a lot of wonderful things. So, yes, I echo that and it's really a joy to have you with us today.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Thank you, no, thank you. Miss Thompson, I looked at your bio and then information all over the internet and your educational background is broad and wide. Can you tell us the five things that you've done educationally that you really enjoyed and you can include any in all degrees?

Speaker 3: 4:17

I'm just laughing, because to say five things I've done educationally is not how I would think about what I have done or achieved in my life. How would you think about it? I think about my background and how it has influenced my education. I think about coming from a village in Guyana called Buxton, where I was in elementary school there wasn't any electricity and by the time I think I almost finished high school, they had some lights on the road and some people had electricity running into their house. But in that village let me just back up and say Buxton is one of the historical villages in Guyana it was the second village where our ancestors purchased the village from the enslavers after slavery was abolished, because they didn't want to work on the plantation anymore, and so they bought that village. They put their money together in a wheelbarrow, took it to the authorities, bought that village and that was our village. They weren't going to work in the plantation, they were going to work farms, but they were going to get education and that's how they were going to feed their families and do whatever. So, and then there's a little anecdote about our villagers where, after they bought the village, they didn't want to pay taxes and the enslavers were insisting that they pay taxes. So they sent some men over to Barbados to negotiate that and the enslavers, in their usual divide and conquer way, told those six they don't have to pay taxes, but the rest of the village have to pay taxes and that, of course, did not go down well. So the village decided that one day, when the, when, the, when the governor was passing on the railroad, that they were going to stop the train. But who stopped the train? It was six pregnant women from Buxton. They held hands and stood across the track and stopped the train so that the governor would give them audience, because they didn't want to give them audience before. So that's the village I'm coming from, and I grew up hearing about people reading their books under the street lights because they didn't have electricity at home, and people becoming lawyers and doctors and you know all kinds of professions out of Buxton. And then we had some excellent teachers in our schools who would go out and they would come in on Saturdays and give you lessons and so on and so forth. And then we had someone who was called Sidney King at one point, but now UC Qayana, who owned a high school in Buxton, and what they used to do after school was to give lessons. This place was called Lessons Place and no matter which high school you went to, which elementary school you went to, wherever you go there after school, and the motto was each one teach one. And so if I am in high school and some elementary students came they need some math help, I'd give them the help. I used to go to high school in George Stonks and Joseph High School and I come back there and people who went to county would help me with my biology or literature or whatever I need. So I am.

Speaker 3: 8:08

When I talk about education, I'm talking about coming from that foundation and Buxton with all of that. They also had a Buxton scholarship which was established years and years ago. I ended up benefiting from that scholarship to go to high school, right. So I talk about when I want to talk about education.

Speaker 3: 8:28

I talk about that, and then I talk about my family, my parents, who were both first borns and didn't get to. They did their elementary but didn't get to go on to high school or so on, except for my mother who, as an adult, went to do training at a place called Carnegie School of Home Economics and she and I actually graduated the same day. I graduated from high school and she graduated from Carnegie. And so my both parents were first born. They did not get to go to high school, but they were very, very keen on education.

Speaker 3: 9:08

I told my mother my father actually was an accomplished pianist. He went to the highest grade in piano, but he didn't get to continue school because his parents died young and he had to take over the business, which was a bakery. So although my parents didn't go to high school, all of my siblings are went to high school. They all, they're all professionals. They all have degrees, more than one. Some of them. In in our family we have, you know, we have two PhDs, two masters, two accountants, two educators and one engineer. All of us have degrees and professions. So you know, that's, that's how I come to education, that's how I talk about education.

Speaker 2: 9:56

So what I'm, what I'm hearing, then, is that you're coming from a family that's one self and highly motivating. You're coming from an environment and value where people were assertive and knew what their rights were and fought for it. And, third, you're coming from a family who value education. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. The other thing about Buxton is that we interviewed Murphy Brown some months back and I'm sure she spoke about that Buxton experience as well. So Buxton, there's no question, goes down in a history history of Guyana as being an extremely powerful place for people to live then and to be from and to be from. Yes, I'm a little jealous Now. Based based on your bio carries. Education is in your DNA. You didn't say that, but I've put it like that. So tell our listeners what was the impetus behind you choosing education as a career, Please.

Speaker 3: 11:05

Well, you know, that also is not straightforward. I wanted to be a chemical engineer. That's what I wanted to be when I went to high school. I was in chemistry, I was in sciences and I wanted to be a chemical engineer. And then there were some circumstances in Guyana my, my father was a baker, as I told you, and then there was the banning of flour and all of that, and so, you know, the situation was not that good, you know, in terms of money coming in. So I decided when I finished my A levels that I was going to go work. So I became a pupil teacher and so I got seduced from that into education because I was a pupil teacher and I started teaching at 16 as a pupil teacher because I had already done my O-levels. I don't know if you know what O-levels are, but that's a British external exam that people in the Caribbean took. Now they have something called CXC, which is the Caribbean version of that. But I did my O-levels at high school and then I was asked to come back and do my A-levels and I said, no, I want to go work. So I went and I became a pupil teacher and so I was planning to go to the University of Guyana and get more education and so on.

Speaker 3: 12:36

But I ended up coming to Canada and when I came to Canada I was still looking to be a teacher. So the first thing I did when I came was to get my O-levels evaluated. And in true form, canada took my O-levels, which were grade 11 advanced, and gave me grade 12 general. But I didn't know any better. So I thought grade 12, I should do grade 13. So I just went and registered for night school, grade 13. And so I did grade 13.

Speaker 3: 13:10

And then I wanted to be a teacher. So I picked up the phone and I called the Ministry of Education and I said what do you need to do to be a teacher? And they said you have to have a degree and then you go to teachers college. So I phoned U of T because you know, like I was newly here, so I didn't know that U of T was so prestigious or anything. I just called them and I said so what do you need to do to get into U of T? So they told me, and so I did my credits at grade 13, applied to U of T, got through and you know that was it. That's you know. So I got in and I started to, you know, work towards getting my education, qualifications and so on, and so that's how I, you know, became a teacher rather than being a chemical engineer.

Speaker 1: 14:01

Can you tell me how many countries have you taught in? And secondly, I just want to know when the village was bought. Was that day considered a holiday?

Speaker 3: 14:15

Okay, so I taught in three countries in Canada, in Jamaica and in Guyana. So you know those are the three places I taught Like I taught in Jamaica because when I finished teachers college there weren't any jobs in Canada and I decided I'm teaching. So I started applying to the Caribbean because that was more attractive to me to try to get to the Caribbean. So I applied to different places but Jamaica was the first one that called and they interviewed me on the phone and in two weeks after my application I was on a plane to Jamaica. So I taught in Jamaica. And you know, as I mentioned before, I taught in Guyana as a pupil teacher and then I came back and taught in Canada.

Speaker 3: 15:04

Afterwards. Know that the purchase day is not a holiday in Guyana, but Emancipation Day is. And I just want to add something you were saying about my interest in education. Not only am I interested in education, but I'm interested in racial uplift. So even as well, as a young person growing up, I was helping people with, you know, tutoring and that sort of thing in Buxton.

Speaker 3: 15:37

But then when I came here, one of the first things I did was to volunteer with a black education project and I volunteered in educational organizations in our community, as well as with school boards and, you know, in different places. So I was with a black education project, the OPBC on organization of friends of black children, cabe, canadian Alliance of Black Educators, a-hann, african Heritage Educators Association, and then the OBA, chess, and you know some other, the Library of Black People's Literature, you know. So I was in a lot of black organizations. But I also volunteered at the Toronto Board before the amalgamation, in a committee that they struck on the education of black children. And I also volunteered during the same time at North York Board where they had a committee where they struck in for the education of black children. And more recently I have volunteered with the Catholic District School Board, again on a committee looking at the education of black children. So I have been involved, you know, voluntarily, and also paid work in the area of education.

Speaker 2: 16:58

Yes, voluntarily and paid work. You have no question about that. That's how I met you. So racial uplift is so critical, is so important for the quote-unquote leaders in our community and you talked with us earlier, Karis, when I introduced you but the people that we're talking with on this show are people that I refer to as community builders and silent giants, and there's no question that you are one of those people. So in your bio, you talk about vetting curriculum material. What were you looking for?

Speaker 3: 17:44

Okay, so I was doing that for the Toronto District School Board and what I was looking for was curriculum that was appropriate not only to grade levels but culturally appropriate, and curriculum that was not called cultural appropriation.

Speaker 3: 18:06

What I mean by that is, sometimes you would be confronted and I don't want to identify any particular submission, but you might be consulted by someone who may have visited a place you know, maybe somewhere I don't know in space, and then they visited for two weeks and then they came back and they have a book they're going to write about that. And I question that sort of submission, because how can you possibly, in two weeks, go to a place and come back and write about that place? Or sometimes people will go and they will take the artifacts of a place or certain symbols or whatnot, and come back and want to copyright it and then say, well, you know, this is mine now, and it's like colonizing people's cultural property. And so I vetted for those sort of things and I vetted to make sure that the material was, you know, reflected equity, diversity and inclusion, because we have a very diverse population students and teachers and community. And so those are the things I vetted for.

Speaker 3: 19:27

And I vetted for things that were kind of fringe. You know, there are some areas where people want to sneak in, you know, maybe a religious thing or something in a public school board and that is just not appropriate. So I would make sure that I read all of the literature that they send and, you know, make sure that when I submitted the material to the committee that I have all the background that's necessary so that we can make a proper decision.

Speaker 1: 20:04

So what courses did you teach at the faculty of education at U of T?

Speaker 3: 20:12

Yes, I taught a section of the English as a second language course. It was called let me see if I remember now but I was doing the sociocultural part of English as a second language. So I taught about refugees and immigrants and their experiences and again around this whole area of equity, diversity and inclusion, because you want teachers to know that, even though someone might come from a different country, that they are just as able to be educated as a student who was born here, so you know. But also they needed to know some of the hardships that refugees face and some of the issues in immigration which we can see up to today. So I taught you know about that and for them to examine some of those issues and to think about those when they're teaching children people's children.

Speaker 2: 21:16

You know I want to go back to something you said a little earlier, and that is that when you came here you contacted U of T to find out how you can become a teacher, and they told you about getting a degree. I came to Canada in 1973 and in those days you did not have to have a degree, you just got a teacher's certificate or something like that, to become a teacher in the public system. They did switch, and I'm fully aware of that. That's interesting. Now, terrence, you taught both children and adults. Did you have a?

Speaker 3: 21:55

preference. Um, it's, it's. I would say not, I did not. But, just backing up, I came in 72. And so I called the ministry around then. So that's interesting what you said. I knew there were teachers who were teaching with grade 13, but when I called them and asked them, they told me that I had to have a degree.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Yeah they were just beginning to switch over and to put that as a prerequisite to getting into teaching at around that time.

Speaker 1: 22:30

Yes, that was amazing how times have changed. Yes, you was a faculty advisor at the University of Ontario Institute of Technology. Can you tell us a little bit about that please?

Speaker 3: 22:46

Okay, so after I retired I was recruited to be a faculty advisor and what I really enjoyed that actually what I did there was to go out and observe teachers, teacher candidates, because they were in Teachers College at the time and I would observe them in their teaching and then I would meet with them afterwards and debrief and give them some pointers and so on, and then I would go and observe them.

Speaker 3: 23:21

I had to do two observations of each teacher and I make recommendation to the college, not recommendation about whether they should pass or fail, but just to let them know you know what I suggested and whether there was a follow up on the areas that I might have pointed out.

Speaker 3: 23:42

And so I traveled all over the Greater Toronto area to do that and it was just quite enjoyable for one In one case it was, you see, students and teachers in different types of schools and school populations and social economic settings. You know I went to schools out in York Region where you know it's just very affluent and so on. I went to schools out in the north of Ontario where it's a private school and they have their own area that they do their physical education. So I had to go and observe someone who was doing physical education in this vast natural landscape. You know, and I mean it was just I had never in my teaching in Toronto I had never observed that sort of thing, except when we went away to a place where there was camping. So it was quite interesting, quite the experience.

Speaker 2: 24:54

So were they considered practice teaching in those days when you did that?

Speaker 3: 24:59

I would say that was practice teaching, yes, but you know it had okay. You know that it used to be one year, yes, so I did that. That year was the year I was at the. At that institution was the last year they were doing one year, Okay. After then they went on to two years.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Mm, hmm, now, one of your roles was to interview aspiring teachers trying to join education programs. Tell us, tell our listeners, caris, what would give one candidate the edge over another in terms of getting into the program.

Speaker 3: 25:42

Okay. So you know, as you know, most candidates, when they come they have what was asked for, the minimum that's asked for in their application, so things that would get them over. And I didn't make the decision, I just made recommendations. So what would get candidates over? One thing was that they because nowadays they look for this a lot where they had experience volunteering or working in the area where they want to teach. So if they want to teach middle school, they should have known middle school people and they worked with them. They have an idea of who it is that they're going to be teaching in the future. So if they have experience in that area.

Speaker 3: 26:35

So the program used to count the number of years or weeks or whatever of experience that that someone will have. And then the other crucial thing was that they had to be aware and perhaps demonstrate some practice in the area of equity, diversity and inclusion. So they have to. There were certain questions. We asked them to get at their understanding of those issues. Of course, when they go to teachers college they would be taught about those things, but coming in they have to have a sense and an understanding of those issues. So those were two critical things I would say that were helpful. But of course there were situations where students, because of their economic circumstances, had to work and couldn't put in the amount of time that would look impressive on an application for so many hours of volunteer time. We took that into consideration as well, if they had to work or what their economic circumstances were.

Speaker 1: 27:50

I do think that is as important considering every facet of an individual before you can actually determine which way they should go. Educationally, you were the Ontario principles council. We worked in that department. Can you tell us a little bit about that place? And, by the way, I also know that you were also an equity consultant.

Speaker 3: 28:15

Yes, I am.

Speaker 1: 28:18

You are Okay, so tell us a little bit about.

Speaker 3: 28:22

Okay. So the Ontario principles council is the best way to put that is. It's similar to the teachers Federation, except it's not a bargaining entity. So principles belong to the council. They join the Ontario principles council and by joining, by being a member of the council, they get protection, for example, if parents would complain about them, or teachers or their fellow administrators. It's, you know, principles and vice principles are a member of the council and so they get protection, support, advice from the staff there. If there are any issues that they encounter where they need some kind of representation or a songling board, sometimes the person doesn't have to come out and help them, but they can talk to a person on the phone or so on. If they get into any legal situation, then they are lawyers there who would represent them in whatever situation it is, and so it's it's.

Speaker 3: 29:33

It's also an organization that offers a lot of courses. They offer the principles course and I'm not sure if they offer the super supervisory officers courses. Well, but they offer the principles course and they offer a lot of courses in different aspects of leadership within the educational sector. So what I do in my role is often people will come to the OPC Ontario principles council, opc. They would come to them and say I'd like to offer a course of principles and vice principles in this area, and so my role is to review those courses and make sure that they are in compliance with the equity, diversity and inclusion specifications of the Ontario College of Teachers, because they're the ones who have to approve the course. So I I review the courses and then the next step is for it to be sent to the college, and then they would approve or not. So that's that's what I do. That's one of the things I do. I do a few things.

Speaker 1: 30:48

So would your recommendations be used to help determine whether or not that project would be accepted or not?

Speaker 3: 30:58

I do not make recommendations, I review and I give my the results of my review. So I I have never followed up to see what has resulted. I just know there was one time when there was something that was particularly not following the guidelines and other things and then I made comments and then they actually ended up asking me and another person, another employee. Well, I'm not an employee, I'm a consultant. So I'm not a consultant to redo that course, because they they were just a few problems that didn't seem to be able to be addressed.

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yes, Newton Thompson, I've been chomping at the bits to ask you to talk about your experience with a black history society.

Speaker 3: 31:54

Oh, you're chomping at the bits, are you? So I I have. Well, I was a volunteer at the Ontario Black History Society for about eight years. I was really, really excited when Dr Daniel Hill started the society in 1978. That was the year I graduated from my did my first graduate with history and honors history degree, my first degree at U of T, and I was just really excited. But I went to teachers college the next year and then I came out and there were no jobs, so I had to leave and go to Jamaica. So when I returned in 1983.

Speaker 3: 32:40

And there was still no jobs, I decided to okay, I'm going to go back and do my masters. And so I had Fridays off from school and I took my Fridays and I went down to the society and I was volunteering. I didn't care what they gave me to do. I stuffed envelopes, I put envelopes in the mail, I licked envelopes, I did whatever. I was just so happy that we had a Black History Society. And so after well, I volunteered, you know, for that first year, and then I made suggestions and so on while I was there, because, you know, sometimes when they had a meeting they didn't have enough people coming out, and so on. So I made suggestions about having a program before the meeting so people come for that and then they'll say for the meeting or whatnot. So of course they said, okay, you're right there, let's have a program committee, you'll chair it. So we started to have a program and then we had like 200 people coming out for things because we'd have a really interesting program and so on. And so I served first as a committee chair and then I was elected to the board and I served on the board for about three years and then I was elected president and quite surprised although I shouldn't have been, because I was on the board and then I was vice president and it was Glace Lawrence who was the executive director. She said Paris, you know you're, you can be president next, because I I was just so busy with the work that I wasn't thinking, oh, you know, I wasn't ambitious in that way, I was just excited that we have a black history society and we can do all these things historically at the society.

Speaker 3: 34:26

So during my presidency we started the black history month kickoff brunch, which, which is now in its 36th year. I just said when I did that there was. We had an archival research project where we had people go and interview folks from Southern Ontario. So there was one researcher working in Toronto and the other one was traveling around Southern Ontario and just interviewing people, seeing if they have any artifacts that they want to contribute to the, to the Ontario archives or just to identify where they were with people. So people so that they're. You know, there there's a note made so that if in the future they want to put them in the archives or whatnot we had.

Speaker 3: 35:17

I started the black. I got you know my exciting thing was to get a black history tour of Toronto. So I hired a researcher. She did a research, we had a black history walking tour and we had a black history bus tour of Toronto. And then we also had many seminars and symposia and so on. So we had speakers like Dr Doran Lewis. She was then the mayor of Annapolis, royal Nova Scotia. She was the first black mayor and we had.

Speaker 3: 35:49

During the time when they were celebrating Columbus, we decided we had to do an anti-Columbus symposium. So we did that and we invited Dr Joy Gleason-Keru and you might recognize the Keru name. There's Claire Keru here, but there is Jan Keru and that she, joy Gleason Keru, actually happens to be his wife and she came and did our anti-Columbus lecture and we participated in things like salafi celebrating African identity at Harborfront and we involved some black students at U of T and black history month presentation and we made sure to let show both know that we were not supporting them, and you know just several things that happened. I was very excited to be part of the Ontario Black History Society and, you know, just enjoyed doing that work.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Now, did you go to the branch that was held two Sundays ago?

Speaker 3: 36:56

No, I wasn't able to, okay and you mentioned the Keru name.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Jan Keru came into a store once Charlie Roach brought him in, so I was very fortunate to get to meet Jan Keru.

Speaker 3: 37:12

Yes, so I wonder if it was the time when they came for the presentation of the Society.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Might have been.

Speaker 3: 37:21

Yes, yes, he's a very well-known Guyanese author.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 37:28

You are a volunteer. It appears that if you're not actually working, you are volunteering, and I want to know what your involvement was as an equity consultant. What does that mean?

Speaker 3: 37:46

Okay, so I this was not volunteering. And also let me just correct you volunteering is work, it's hard work, it's hard work. Yes, as an equity consultant I was. I called myself that at the school board. They called me a race relations advisor and I didn't like that title because I don't even know what race relations are. So I titled myself equity consultant and at that time it was more looking at anti-racism we didn't have the term anti-black racism at the time but we are looking at anti-racism in terms of just the racism that is experienced by people of color and indigenous people in Canada, and it we were mostly. Well, I was hired by the school board, so I was promoted, I should say by the school board, because I had been working there as a teacher and department head and so on. So that was a promotion I had applied for and we were looking at working with teachers to have them. Well, I say we, but I was mainly the office, so I was working with teachers to have them.

Speaker 3: 39:10

Look again at how they worked with students of color, for example, we had and this is not news and I don't know if this still continues today, but where students, especially black students, will go to guidance counselors and say I would like to be a teacher or doctor or lawyer, and the guidance counselors often would say to them well, you know, that will take so long and it'll be so expensive, you'll have to get a student loan. If they ask, they say they want to be a teacher, there would be advice to go and work in a daycare. Just go for two years at a community college and you'll be finished fast. You don't have to go for four years at you know, or three years at the university and then go to teachers college. And so we, we talked to them about that because I mean underpinning that is that whole idea that they want to keep black people in the in the roles of viewers of wood and fetches of water. So I I, when I was vice principal and principal, I took my collective agreement that I had as a teacher to school with me when I spoke with students, because sometimes they even had the impression that teachers weren't making that much money and so it doesn't make a difference if you go and work in a daycare, you work in in a school. And so I would take out my collective agreement and say, look, this is what you get as a first-year teacher, year one, you know in even if you're in the first category. And here if you get certain education, you could start at the fourth category and get a better pay. But this is what you make and this is what they make as daycare people. So teaching makes, you know, gives you lots of money and you get your summers off and you get your Christmas out and you get. So you know, I would tell them this because they, you know some of the students. They get sort of feeling that you know, being a teacher wasn't paying that much money or what not.

Speaker 3: 41:23

But but fundamentally the anti-racism work was to look critically, examined and try to disturb that whole notion that certain students of color could not achieve. You know the prejudices and their the discrimination that occurred at different levels in schools. We try to work with teachers and with administrators and trustees to to reexamine some of those things and, and you know, try to stare them in in another direction to try to disrupt that negativity. But of course when you're in a role like that they turn on you because somehow when you're pointing things out, you are the problem. It's not. You know the people who are, excuse me, who are the ones you know doing, doing some, some things.

Speaker 3: 42:19

So so it was in that role they were. They were in each school board there was a person in that role and we used to meet together and so on, and we, you know, we share some of the the issues that come up from from doing that kind of work and and and there were also people in the cities, like the city of Toronto had a person, city of North York and city of York had a person who you know all these race relations people were, you know, were being hired at that time. But I, in my opinion, they hired us to make sure that that the city or whomever would say we have a person in that job. And so in my case, I decided you hired me, I'm gonna do the job. You're not gonna just say you have me, I will do the job. So one of the things I'm proud of from that was that we were the first school board to say that students will not go on a field trip to see showboats, and once we came out with this, then the other school boards took it on.

Speaker 1: 43:26

You hang out at a lot of universities. I wanna know what did you think of York University and their teacher education program?

Speaker 3: 43:38

Okay. So I was not familiar with it. I used to do the recruitment, the recruitment, the interviews for York, but I have not. I did all four of my degrees at University of Toronto, I'm ashamed to say, and I think it's just because once you're there you don't have to go back, send in your transcript again, whatever. They have all the records. So when I apply for another program, as long as you're qualified to do whatever, you just apply and do it. So I didn't know.

Speaker 3: 44:12

I used to go to interviews so we would get some lectures on that and I actually used to do some. While I was the equity advisor. I used to do some conferences with people from York University, but I just consider my involvement peripheral. I did do my principal's course, part one, at York, but it wasn't a York course per se, it was a course that was taught by retired principals or at York. So I don't have a lot to say about York, except that I had the opportunity to go and interview students and that sort of thing. And I still go there for lectures and so on because I donate to the Gina Augustine Chair.

Speaker 2: 45:00

Well, I'll drag a little bit and say that my undergraduate degree came from York, but then I segwayed to U of T, where I met you as well, because we were both doing graduate work at OISI, but that's for another interview. So, karris Newton-Thompson, there's no question that you are a community builder and, as you said, racial uplifter, and we applaud you for that. So I wanna hear from you what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker 3: 45:41

So that is easy because I got that advice from my late sister, my older late sister. She was the first and I'm the second, and the advice she gave me was okay. So I came as I told you. I went, I did my grade 13 and then I was applying to university and she had been going to U of T part-time and she said to me don't go part-time, go full-time. Because she had been going part-time and then she got married right after. So she got married young, like about 23 or something, and she said to me go full-time right, because she was seeing that it was interrupting her studies going part-time, and so that I think that's the best advice. I went full-time. It wasn't all that easy, I had to work and so on and go, but I think that really paid off for me in the end.

Speaker 1: 46:42

Which do you enjoy doing most, being the gardener or baking?

Speaker 3: 46:48

I can't distinguish because, being a gardener, it's well, of course you're outdoors and I like to grow food as well as flowers and so on, and I just I like to figure out you know why things are working the way they are or they're not working and so on. But I also like baking and I like making treats. I make dark chocolate covered almonds and I make dark chocolate covered ginger and all of that. So I just when I'm doing that, you know I make them and they're different shapes and whatnot, and I just like and I take pictures and send to my sisters all the time. So you know like I just enjoy those things and most, the most that I enjoy about both things was that people actually eat them.

Speaker 3: 47:48

So when I'm and I, when I garden and I reap things I give to some of my neighbors and my husband he loves to reap, so he would go out and reap and eat and I just like the idea you pick it now and five minutes later you're gonna eat it. So it's you know. And then when I bake things, I sometimes I drive all the way across the city to my friend Clem and take stuff for him my big brother friend Clem, or my friend Angela, or different people. I just I bake and I take it out and I just like people enjoying what I do. So you know, that's so it's. It's hard to say one or the other. And of course in the summer I bring flowers in from the garden all the time and so it beautifies the place and you know all of that, and if somebody's in a hospital I take some for them.

Speaker 3: 48:39

you know that sort of thing. So you know I couldn't tell you one or the other.

Speaker 1: 48:46

When you are gardening. Do you find that more relaxing than baking, or vice versa?

Speaker 3: 48:53

No, it's two different kinds of things. Sometimes gardening is not all that relaxing, because my neighbors cats come into my garden and think it's their washroom and so I have to be cleaning that stuff up, you know. So it's not always that relaxing. I actually had to go out and buy something called a scarecrow that I put in the middle of the backyard and attach the hose to it, so when they come through the hedge the water just squirts on them and they have to run away.

Speaker 2: 49:27

It's called cruelty to animals. Ms.

Speaker 3: 49:29

No, it's called spraying them with water.

Speaker 2: 49:34

Do you remember some years ago you gave me a plant, the corn flower.

Speaker 3: 49:39

No, it's a conatia. Yeah, no, I don't remember giving you.

Speaker 2: 49:45

Yeah, every spring when it comes up, I think of you because it blooms and blooms and it really beautifies the garden. That purpleish flower yes. Blue purpleish flower. You gave me a plant once you brought it to the store.

Speaker 3: 49:58

Oh, I do that all the time. I do that all the time.

Speaker 2: 50:01

And you don't remember?

Speaker 3: 50:02

No, I don't.

Speaker 2: 50:04

Before we let you go, because you're really enriching this conversation and I'm having a ball just talking with you and hearing your story, but I want to put you in an auditorium with black graduating students in the education program. What three gems would you offer them?

Speaker 3: 50:25

I would say that the first thing, if they're black educators, then I would say know yourself, know your history, know your people and don't start with enslavement, because knowing your people started hundreds of years ago. We were the first people on the earth. So know yourself, be grounded in that. And the reason I say that is because if you're not grounded in yourself, you can easily be tipped over when you come up against challenges and so on. You have to be solid in who you are and not ashamed of it, and not bother about the media and how they depict our people. You know your own history. You're not taught it in school. You're an educator. You can go out and find the information. So that's one thing. And then I would say value and encourage black students. We don't have a great population of black people in the city or black students or whatnot, but often what happens is that you go into a school as an educator and then there might be people who would be saying negative things about students, about black students, and unless maybe they're on a sports team or something, and then they say wonderful things about them mostly. So you need to value and encourage black students, and when I say that, what I mean is you get to know that student. Don't matter what anybody tells you about the student, don't go on that. You go on your relationship with the student in your classroom. Don't go into the classroom with a bias against the student because somebody whispered to you oh, that family, whatever, or that student, just go with a clean slate and make sure that you get to know that person one-on-one.

Speaker 3: 52:38

And I'm just deviating to say I remember when I was vice principal I used to see this young man walking around with his pants down to wherever and so on, and I looked at him and I thought this is gonna be my project. So I would see him in the hall and I say hi. Then I found out his name and then I say hi, tom DeCarrie. And he's like you know my name. I say I know everything, I tell him. So then I checked his interim report and I saw he did well at one course and I saw him again. I say hey, I see you did well in whatever. You know what's on my report card. And I say I know everything right. So I keep just every time I see him in the hall. I said something to him.

Speaker 3: 53:27

Now I don't know if I'm responsible for this, but this kid started pulling up his pants and the next year he got on the honor roll and so his father came to parents night First time. The father said I never even got any information before about parents nights. This is the first time the father came to parents night. And then he went on and he graduated from high school and for the prom the father hired a stretch limousine for him and his friends. He dressed up in this white suit, you know, and I don't know if I should take credit for that. But the point I'm making is I took interest in him and I just I didn't say anything negative, I just kept telling him little things of praise and he figured, oh, she's noticing me. So I don't know if that helped him, but I'm just saying you take that interest and instead of looking for a negative thing to say or to do, try to positive. You get more response from the honey. And then I have like two more things, so bear with me.

Speaker 3: 54:39

So the next thing I would say is take care of your health, because as a teacher it is a very taxing kind of role and you need to take some time to take care of your health.

Speaker 3: 54:52

So I know people do lessons plans every night and whatever, and then sometimes on the weekend they're looking for stuff and what not.

Speaker 3: 54:59

Carve out some time for you If you go on a hike or you do bicycle or whatever you do. Carve out that time because you don't wanna burn out, you know, because that's easy to happen, especially in these days when you have sometimes you have classes where you're teaching on Zoom and you're teaching in person and you're like there's just a lot expected. So make sure you carve out that time. And then the final thing I would say is to make sure you have either an individual or a group of black teachers or educators that you can touch base with. You might have other network, but you need that black kitchen cabinet because whatever you experience as a black person would be more common among you as black educators than it would be with other people. And I'm not saying not to do that with other people, but make sure you have that a black person, or more than one, that you can touch base with and, to just troubleshoot her, do whatever you're doing, because that is also crucial for your mental health.

Speaker 1: 56:09

Ms Thompson, I wanna say there are two types of educators. There's an educator and then there's an educator who cares, and you happen to fit under the category of educator who cares. It's evident through all of what you've done, starting with where you're from, which was a community effort to buy the land so that you could be independent, which is extremely important and from there you were able to attend the schools that you felt were necessary so that you were able to reach your personal and educational goals. Because of your education, you were able to more or less move to any position that you wanted to, from a faculty advisor to equity consultant, handled volunteer work under many capacities, which is always something that I think is important. When we talk about giving back to the community, that is one way that we can definitely give back to the community. I just wanna thank you so much for spending the time with us this afternoon. This is, yet again, another treasure that we can add to the Speak Up International Vault. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 57:45

Thank you. I appreciate the time that you've taken and that you've chosen me. I'm just so humbled by all of that.

Speaker 2: 57:54

Well, your story adds so much to our history and to our culture, and I wish that you would continue telling it and perhaps one day you will put it in a book.

Speaker 1: 58:05

Thank you for listening to Speak Up exclamation point international. If you wish to contact Ms Karis Newton Thompson, please submit your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Ms Newton Thompson to info at speakuppodcastca. Are you interested in the opportunity to be interviewed and have your calls promoted by Speak Up exclamation point international? We invite you to contact us by sending a message that includes your name, company or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community and your email address to info at speakuppodcastca. Worry about your confidence as an interviewer? Don't fret.

Speaker 1: 58:52

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