[00:00:00] Elton Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!
[00:00:15] Rita Burke: We send our nets all over the world on SpeakUP! International, hence the term international. That means that we speak to people from all over the world. We've interviewed people from England, from South Africa, from Mexico, from Brazil. But we're closer to home today. As a matter of fact, we're close to Washington, D. C. with Ms. Candace Oglesby. Now, for over 12 years, she has been walking alongside countless individuals on their journey to healing. Candace specializes in addiction treatment, grief, trauma informed care, cultural humility, and the field of psychedelic therapy. What sets our guest today apart is that she is also on her own healing journey. Help me welcome Ms. Candace Oglesby.
[00:01:21] Elton Brown: It's great to have you here. Boy, you do have a story to tell and I'm sure our audience will find it fascinating. So can you share a little bit about your personal journey of recovery and how it shaped your approach to therapy?
[00:01:43] Candace Oglesby: Absolutely. Thank you for that question. Um, so grateful to be here with you all today.
I think in terms of my own journey, um, and I haven't been the only one who's felt like this. I think other therapists have also felt like this, that, uh, we've made our way to the therapy space because I think in some ways we were trying to find our own healing. And so I will say for me, my healing involved, you know, having a father who, um, had muscular dystrophy my entire life and who still has it today.
Um, and even just having a mother, uh, with preexisting medical conditions, but also, you know, having a mom, you know, who worked two jobs, sometimes even three jobs, was in school at the same time and being an only child. And so. There was a lot of loneliness that I felt growing up in my household. And so even at the very early age of being in in high school, I knew that I wanted to be a therapist.
I knew that I was good at talking with people. Um, but I think also I knew what suffering felt like. Um, and I don't think as a child, I could actually pinpoint like this is suffering and grief that I'm experiencing. Um, but as an adult, someone who is not just only a therapist, but also has received the gift of therapy.
Just looking back at young Candace, just saying how much grief, um, and how much burden, you know, she was carrying and even. being a survivor of bullying in school. And so even after high school, going into college, getting my undergrad in psychology and then going on to graduate school and getting my master's degree.
And then later on becoming a licensed psychotherapist here in Maryland, um, having practice, uh, licensed, uh, for, for the past 10 years, working with specifically women of color who are trauma survivors. That's just been my jam. I feel like there is a resonance there. Um, but then also this representation that a lot of my clients see me, um, as someone who looks like them, um, where they don't necessarily have to do a whole lot of explaining, but someone who can just really sit with them, bear witness to their suffering, but also be able to help them recover from their suffering as well.
[00:03:56] Rita Burke: Quite a, quite an explanation to Elton regarding his question. Something you commented on, that what suffering looks like. When you were a child you couldn't label it.
[00:04:12] Candace Oglesby: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Rita Burke: So what does suffering look like, feel like, behave like?
[00:04:17] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, I think it's, uh, specific to each individual.
And so I, uh, identify my own suffering as, you know, sometimes there would be depressive moments. Um, even having thoughts, you know, of what would life look like if I weren't here? Um, even just before I did some really intensive therapy, um, even like questioning my existence. You know, I didn't ask to be here.
Why am I here? Um, it could also look as very subtle as even the strong friend. Um, but someone who isolates when they're not having to be around people. Um, it can look like anxiety. You know, it's not just depression, but it can also look like anxiety. Um, And again, it can, I think it's very specific and it's very individualized.
Um, but those are just some attributes of, of suffering. And again, it's not always the person who I think we think it is, right? But it can be the person who presents themselves as strong, um, but suffering in silence.
[00:05:23] Elton Brown: Well done! I think you answered that question thoroughly! So can you discuss some of the common misconceptions or stigmas surrounding addiction treatment and how you work to overcome them?
[00:05:39] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, so I think it's this parallel process for me. I think starting off working with the forensic population. So, uh, when I first, uh, well, not even before I first graduated, uh, when I was in grad school, I did my internship, at a federal penitentiary working with incarcerated men in the drug program.
And then eventually, when I graduated from grad school, I went on to work with incarcerated men, um, in state prison, uh, facilities, and then work with those who were on methadone maintenance and then intensive outpatient. And so I feel like I've worked with a lot of folks. Um, within the substance use, um, arena.
And now here I am advocating, right? For, for substances by way of psychedelic assisted therapy. But I think the misperception around substances is that, you know, this idea, Oh, well, these people, um, you know, just things that I've heard, like, you know, these people don't want much out of life or, you know, usually substance use is associated, I think a lot of times with homelessness as well.
Um, but what I found just in my own observations is that, you know, substances are usually used as a, as a escapism, um, tool to be able to kind of disconnect, disassociate. And I noticed that a lot of my clients who were having some substance use issues, they were also trauma survivors as well. And so, because the trauma was the underlying issue and substance use was just the band aid, I felt like you can't treat substance use without Actually treating the trauma that is beneath that because that's the root. A lot of times, um, giving way to people's substance use issues.
[00:07:21] Rita Burke: You talked about working with incarcerated, with men who are incarcerated. How do men respond to a woman holding their hands and walking with them through their pain?
[00:07:35] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, that's an interesting question. Uh, I feel like so far, I feel like that was the most meaningful work I did.
And I think when people look at me, I think there's also a misperception. It's just like Are you sure you worked with like, with men who were incarcerated? I'm like, absolutely. There was like some of the best work. Um, but I found that to be very rewarding. I think, you know, in any setting like that, there's, I'll say there's a, um, kind of like this testing period that you go through.
Um, because I think that they really want to know that you're authentically showing up for them, that you're just not showing up just because you're trying to collect the check or whatever the case may be. And so, you know, I had to earn respect. with these men. I couldn't think that I was just going to come in and, you know, support them and help them.
Um, but you know, they're brilliant men, you know, and sometimes people just make really poor decisions, right? Or sometimes people are born in really tough environments, right? Where they're having to survive. And so not seeing them as a victim. Um, but also not seeing them as I, I think, um, predators as well.
Um, but really seeing them as human beings, I think went a long way. And so even just within my power, right of being, um, a therapist and a support for them, you know, sometimes I would have to play case manager, right? A lot of these men were going to be released. And so they weren't getting what they needed from case management services.
So sometimes that. I needed to bring resources for them. Um, and that went a long way with them. And so I think some of the issues that my colleagues had, I didn't necessarily have that, um, with these men and really appreciated the work that I was able to do with them. I think the assumption is that, right, I'm teaching them, but in a lot of ways, I think they taught me not just how to be a better therapist, but I think they just also taught me how to be a better human being.
[00:09:33] Elton Brown: So how has your personal experience with grief and trauma Helped you with your work with individuals who are going through something similar.
[00:09:45] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, no, that's a really great question. Um, I'm so appreciative of my process because it helps me to empathize. But I think also. create a container in which I have been able to show up for my clients.
And so I feel like my relationship with grief and even just navigating through my own traumatic experiences, um, it's been a very unfolding process. And when I say unfolding that with this process of grief and navigating trauma. It's been very fluid. Um, it has not been linear in nature. I think sometimes the misperception when people show up to therapy is, oh, I'm going to do this work.
And then I'm going to get to this point where I never have to work again. But my personal experience has taught me like, no, I'm going to be working on my recovery. As long as I'm a very, uh, alive human being living here in the world. And so I will just kind of share a little bit of an experience, but about three years ago when I had my first Ketamine experience, I went off to a Ketamine training and part of that training was uh, actually ingesting the Ketamine myself as a practitioner so that I could sit with my clients who would be having a ketamine treatment.
And I feel like this was the first time that grief showed up in a way for me, in which I felt like I got to determine what type of relationship I was going to have with grief. And when I say that, that showed up by way of my grandmother at the time, um, had been diagnosed with dementia, Alzheimer's, and this idea that, you know, I was experiencing ambiguous grief.
Like my grandmother, yeah, it was. physically here. But there were parts of her that, you know, have been lost due to her Alzheimer's. And so that experience really allowed me to kind of be with grief in a way I had never experienced for before. And yes, it was very challenging. Yes, it was very uncomfortable.
But there was so many beautiful gems that came out of that experience. And so, you know, my grandmother is still here today. Um, sometimes she can call me by name. Sometimes she can't. Um, but I have, I feel like this new lens that I can now see our relationship through, um, and just appreciate her while she's here, still holding my own grief that, you know, the grandmother that I knew wants to be is no longer here, but, um, Developing a different type of relationship with her while also holding space for my own grief.
[00:12:20] Rita Burke: So it sounds to me as if she has played a critical role in your life and she still means a lot to you in spite of her own situation. Yeah, so we're speaking with Candace Oglesby. You could have chosen to be a teacher, you could have chosen to be a professor, you could have chosen to be a nurse, you could have chosen to be an IT technician, but you chose therapy instead, you chose to be a therapist. Talk to us about that choice of yours.
[00:12:54] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, so. I I will say as a young girl, I actually wanted to be a doctor. Um, my mom was going to Howard University at the time to become a physician assistant. And so, um, because, you know, again, my mom working a couple of jobs, you know, my dad at the time, you know, trying to navigate, you know, his muscular dystrophy, my mom would have to bring me to class sometime and so being in classes where her working on cadavers and that was just so exciting. And so, um, you know, as I got older and I realized that my math and my son skills did not align with the desire to be a doctor, you know, I thought about, okay, how else can I help people heal? And so, you know, I will say that one thing that my mom prided herself on was really introducing me to different types of experiences.
I had a very strong community and support system around me as well. And so even having like a godfather and a godmother and cousins and even neighbors, um, exposed me to different things, you know, I had the opportunity to even. you know, consider psychology. Uh, And so what did that look like for me? I think as a black woman, uh, to go into the field of psychology, I think that that was really important.
Um, because even though we we talk about this mental health space, you know, only four percent of african americans exist as psychologists. even to this day. And so I think representation is important. I feel like therapy is something I can do on my sleep. I feel like, you know, um, my clients, uh, have really benefited from my support and even I've benefited again.
Um, from the clients that I've had again, they just have not taught me how to just not be a really great therapist, but they've also just taught me how to be a really great human being, um, and to really appreciate the gift of therapy and the process of therapy.
[00:14:54] Rita Burke: Now, before Elton comes back, what would you attribute to the fact that there's so few of us doing that kind of work?
[00:15:04] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, I mean, so even when you look at the history of psychology, right, you see a lot of Heterosexual cisgender white men, right at the root of psychology. Uh, and I also think too, there's still a lot of stigma, um, and Black and Brown communities around mental health. Um, what mental health is actually for.
And, you know, when we look at even licensing exams, you know, for, um, just recently social workers, you know, had this whole, what felt like, um, Was really trying to challenge the system in which, you know, social workers was taking license and exams because, um, systemically, you know, was kind of rooted in oppressive, um, frames.
And we saw the statistics in terms of how social workers were not passing, you know, the exam. And so it's the same way, you know, I think about being a licensed clinical professional counselor here at Maryland. Maryland is one of the hardest states. to get licensed in, you know, as a therapist. So I think that again, mental health is part of the health care system, and we know that the health care system has its own issues around oppression, um, historically, but also present day.
Uh, the mental health sector is no different, um, than that. So, you know, there are a lot of hurdles to overcome, um, to being a therapist. And again, I think there's still a lot of stigma, a lot of misperception. about who can be a therapist and what a therapist has to look like, um, to be able to, to support their, their community.
[00:16:40] Elton Brown: I agree with everything that you said. Without any hesitation what, whatsoever. So tell us what motivated you to become a mental health consultant and advocate for creating more inclusive landscape in the bill?
[00:17:00] Candace Oglesby: So about three years ago, uh, we were talking about COVID earlier. I, uh, you know, was at, at home sitting with my clients.
And then I started getting invitations to come and speak. So even before COVID, I had some opportunities to present and speak. And I really enjoyed that. And even just the feedback I had gotten from folks just saying, like, you seem like you're like a really great teacher. Like, have you ever thought about like going into academia or teaching?
And I hadn't really thought about it. Um, I think I had looked at a couple of community college. Cause you know, at the master's level, you can really teach at the community college and even you can teach at the university level, but, um, you know, it was just the thought. I really hadn't taken any actual steps to pursue it, but you know, in COVID, when I got those invitations to come on to be like an expert panel, um, speaker for mental health engagements.
And then I was also kind of mediating some tough conversations. And then when I got the invitation to be on some psychedelic clinical trials and just notice the disparities. So even, you know, being on these clinical trials, being the only black therapist. And then also there weren't a lot of black and brown participants who were on these trials. And so I'm like, I can speak to this. And I actually have a, um, a minor in gender diversity studies from my undergrad years. And so I'm like, you know, what is preventing me from being able to combine a skill set around DEI, essentially diversity, equity, and inclusion. With being able to advocate for mental health equity, like there's a connection here, and I think that I have the tools.
I think that if I can also gather some more wisdom, um, and practice my speaking skills, I really think that this is something that I can advocate for, um, because I, I just don't have the knowledge, but I also have, you know, the issues that my clients would come in talking about and helping them connect to what they were experiencing on a micro level to a more macro systemic level. Like, hey, this isn't just you that you're experiencing this. But if we look at the stats, if we look at the recent research, there are more black and brown people who are also experiencing the same things you are. And so now that, you know, I have the platform.
Um, I feel like I'm starting my career all over again, but it's something that I'm extremely passionate about. I really want black and brown people not just to get mental health treatment, but I want them to get quality mental health treatment. And I want it to be by people who look like them because they are the ones who already have the relationships with these communities.
And these are the people that, you know, the communities trust. You know, and so if there's a way to be able to advocate for that, educate folks on that really speak to people's fears and anxieties, um, you know, I, I'm like, I think I really got a good thing here going. And also I think being a therapist and COVID burnt me out.
And so I really just needed a way to kind of reinvent, but also kind of motivate myself just to keep on this path. And, you know, right now I'm not seeing clients directly, um, but I'm still able to leverage my degree and my license in a way that I feel like, um, fuels me, but it also still pours back into the community.
[00:20:28] Elton Brown: Wonderful!
[00:20:28] Rita Burke: It is fascinating because I have never. Before, seeing an intersection between DEI and mental health, which, you know, and on SpeakUP! International, we certainly seek to educate, to inspire, and to inform. And this is extremely informative. Thank you for making that connection for us. Now, what advice would you give to someone desiring to become a therapist?
[00:20:59] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. Um, I would just invite folks to consider, um, that this work is not easy. I think that it's important that if folks are going to be therapists, that they also allow themselves the gift of having their own. recovery process, receiving the gift of therapy. Uh, I can't tell you how many therapists I know who have not gone to therapy and how that has a negative impact a lot of times on how they show up or their inability to show up for clients.
Um, and you know, I wish that I had an earlier start in my own recovery work. Um, but I am grateful that therapy being a therapist led me to undergoing my own process. Um, and I think it's also important, you know, that therapists consider like self care. You know, I don't think anyone talks about, um, I think the burden and the responsibility that comes with being a therapist.
Um, you know, I think there's this romanticism that we're out here saving lives. Um, but I don't even see myself, you know, in the role of saving anyone, right? I think that, um, people have an inherent wisdom inside of them. They just need the container and the support to be able to tap into the wisdom and the healing that's already inside of them.
I just see myself as a facilitator of that. Um And also with that, right, this idea about being able to take care of oneself and being able to do that, I think our culture has a very superficial definition of self care. And so even like in my mid thirties now and having been a practitioner at this point for, uh, 10 years, uh, that I feel like I am just now learning what self care looks like for me, but I think beyond a superficial definition of that as well. So, um, and also to that, there's ways to make money as a mental health clinician as well. Um, I feel like in grad school, I heard time and time again, like, Oh, just accept the fact that you're going to be doing this a lot of times pro bono, like, and you're only going to make over a certain amount of money.
Um, but that's not true. In fact, I feel like the past three years even stepping outside of direct clinical care and becoming a mental health consultant, and I think being able to tap into other gifts, skills and talents have been able to allot me also financial freedom. As well. And so I also want to say that too.
Um, so I guess three things right that really that people undergo their own recovery process if they're thinking about becoming a therapist, um, being able to explore what self care looks like. Um, for that particular individual, but going beyond a very superficial definition of that. And then also to that there are ways to have financial freedom.
In this space, um, that there are ways to be able to, I think, expand beyond, I think, what in it, that notion might've changed, but at least when I was in grad school, there was this thought I wasn't going to make any money. But, um, I feel like I'm 11, living testament to that, that that's not true. Yeah.
[00:24:29] Elton Brown: Well, I am very proud of you that you found the way to climb up that ladder and reach for what you want.
Tell us a little bit about your training in internal family systems and eye movement desensitization and reprocessing?
[00:24:49] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. So about, um, At this point, I think it's like almost maybe five years ago or even maybe six, but, um, I was introduced to internal family systems. Richard Swartz is actually, um, I would say the pioneer around that, that modality, but I had an opportunity to do, um, a two day or three day training with him.
And I felt like just even being in that training, cause I had been doing like CBT, talk therapy prior to that. Um, but just almost felt like it wasn't getting to the root of my issues. And so having been in that training and there was like this small experiential, um, activity, I think we had done like in the middle on the first day and almost felt like parts of me wanted to just break down and cry because I felt like I had found we found a modality that just didn't, you know, speak to what I felt like my clients would be able to receive. But it spoke to parts of me. And so, you know, I am a clinician that does not offer my clients any sort of therapeutic modality unless I have engaged in it myself.
And so from there, I found, um, an IFS therapist. Uh, and we have worked together for about three years, really kind of, um, navigating my own trauma, um, that I talked about earlier. Uh, and then I was accepted into level one because there's three levels of the training, um, through an organization called Black Therapist Rock that specifically supports black therapists and being able to attend quality, um, trainings, expensive training things at a discounted rate that they wouldn't be able to attend otherwise. And so from there, I was able to get into the next two levels. Um, and I will say even before getting trained in I. F. S. I was working at an organization called pro bono counseling where I was giving away some free services to folks who were unable to forward therapy at the time.
That was part of my own reciprocity process to the community. And so they had an opportunity for therapists to get trained in the M. D. R. There was actually a sponsor who sponsored a number of us to get trained in that modality. So I did that and then eventually went on to get the certification. Uh, and then because there's not a lot of approved consultants to help other therapists to get certified of color.
I went ahead and got to be the approved consultant. And so that's what I do now. I help other clinicians, black and brown, specifically clinicians who wanted to get certified in E. M. D. R. To be able to do that process. But I also provide a lens that identifies an anti oppressive way. of these modalities because they're both founded by white individuals.
Um, and so right, how we apply these modalities to our community sometimes looks a little different. And so I also operate from these modalities from an anti oppressive lens. As well,
[00:27:58] Rita Burke: I think I'm hearing, I think I'm hearing a theme, a thread running through what you're saying, help me to find out if I'm accurate.
Am I hearing then that you feel to be authentic and to be effective as a therapist. One needs to experience therapy?
[00:28:17] Candace Oglesby: Absolutely. And I think also, in addition to being authentic, so I found that I can't go as deep as clients needed to if I hadn't gone as deep within my own recovery process. Yeah.
[00:28:34] Elton Brown: Can you share an example of a challenging situation where you encountered while advocating for equity and diversity within the medical health field?
[00:28:45] Candace Oglesby: Man, I feel like I'm dealing with challenges every single day. I actually have a blog, uh, on my website where I talk about the challenges of being a woman of color, uh, specifically within the psychedelic space.
Um, because it is a predominantly white gate cat space, uh, by cisgender, heterosexual men. Um, and so even just trying to break through in that. space, you know, has been a challenge, you know, um, I think to be a black woman is a double whammy and a lot of ways. And so trying to break through in a space where, you know, you have a lot of white gatekeeping that happens.
And so even just what feels like is trying to prove myself, um, in a lot of ways that, you know, Yeah, I'm a black woman, but I'm also educated. Like I have a lot of training in this space. Um, I've also paid my dues where I've sat on clinical trials. Um, you know, I've been a licensed psychotherapist for the past 10 years, you know, so doing all of these things and still feeling like I need to prove myself.
On an everyday basis is the just the challenge itself and it's exhausting because it's like other people don't have to do what I'm having to do even just to get my foot in the door, let alone have a seat at the table, let alone being able to get paid what I'm worth. Let alone having the opportunity. Um, and having opportunities that, you know, I see my white counterparts easily getting without having to put as much work in.
Um, so I would say that is the challenge. It's every day. And that's just being able to show up, uh, specifically in the, in the psychedelic assisted therapy space.
[00:30:31] Rita Burke: You said something that really resonates with me about having to prove yourself. Toni Morrison said that it drains us to have to consistently prove ourselves.
So you know what she says? Don't even bother. Because it doesn't matter what you do, you still will have another hoop to jump.
[00:30:53] Candace Oglesby: Exactly.
[00:30:54] Rita Burke: So what do you do for fun, Miss Candace?
[00:30:58] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. So what do I do for fun? So I just got married in June and I love my husband. So we have no kids right now. So we have a lot of fun together.
Um, you know, we at least have date night once a week. Um, when there's just our time to be able to be with each other to check in with each other. Um, you know, I have a very close relationship with my mom. Um, actually, she and I are going to go see a movie tonight. And so just really looking forward to that.
Uh, and then I love to travel. I, I love to, uh, spend time with my friends. Again, as I mentioned, right, I'm an only child. And so my friends are more like siblings. To me. And so it's important for me to maintain those relationships to be present for those relationships. Um, so even being able to just spend time with them, talking with them, um, going to concerts, music is my jam.
I love music. Um, and so anything that's like creative arts plays, um, music. I'm a music enthusiast. So yeah, those are just in my dog. I, um, have almost a two year old, uh, pit bull, lab mix, and I've never had animals before in terms of four legged creatures, um, and I just love him. And he is always so happy to see me. I call him my shadow. He goes wherever I go, so.
[00:32:25] Elton Brown: I don't know about you, but I definitely love dogs!
[00:32:28] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. It's that unconditional love piece, like my husband can get mad at me, but the dog, he's gonna always be there.
[00:32:41] Elton Brown: Well, and there you go, people. One for the archives. So tell us about communication and how important is that tool when you are supporting individuals with challenges?
[00:32:59] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. Uh, one of the things that I like about Brene Brown is she says that clarity is kindness. And so when we talk about communication, I think communication is an avenue to provide clarity.
And so I think that, uh, especially having difficult conversations, communication is, is important. Because I think, uh, you know, quite a bit assumptions can be made. Uh, and so, you know, even when it comes to me advocating for myself, uh, you know, Tony Morrison also said, right, words are important. And so I live by that, uh, language, communication, even our body language, right, uh, can tell a story even without us having to open our mouths.
And so. It's not just something that I try to exercise with my clients, but I think just personally, you know, even within my marriage, communication is so important. Um, even when, you know, I am trying to close business deals, communication is important. Even when a friend has offended me, right? Uh, communication is important.
Important to say like, Hey, you know, that that hurt me in this way. This didn't land on me too well. And what can we do to maybe course correct? Um, maybe there's something that we need to kind of sit down, um, to kind of communicate maybe what's happening in our dynamic, in our relationship. So I will say that I think the more healed I have become.
Uh, a better communicator. I've been in my relationships, but also I think a better advocate for what my needs are, uh, so that people can know how to treat me so that people know how to show up for me. Um, and also for me to be able to show up for other people as well.
[00:34:42] Rita Burke: So, when we get, when we stop recording, I will ask you what is, what is our body language saying about us, but, but not right now!
So we have two signature questions that we ask everyone. And here's the first one, who or what would you say is responsible for the person you are today? Hmm.
[00:35:07] Candace Oglesby: Yeah. I won't even say person. Person. Um, I will say persons. It took a whole community for me to get to this point. Um, and, you know, I think that, um, definitely, you know, I always credit that, you know, even just this notion of a higher power.
Even this notion of ancestors, I think that there were forces that were also looking out for me as well, ensuring that I got to this point, even just like in the ancestral healing work that I've done, um, with even within my own lineage, just recognizing that, um, I am, I would call a legacy, um, burdener. In my family, and I am finishing some things that ancestors before me have passed on were not able to finish, so I think that definitely wasn't my, uh, physical community who's just only alive, but I think that there was a community of people who passed on before me who also made sure and are making sure that I carry out my purpose.
[00:36:15] Elton Brown: So what message of hope and resilience do you hope to convey to podcast audience? And what can they expect to gain from your story and expertise? Yeah,
[00:36:29] Candace Oglesby: I think for me, the message that I want to convey is that healing belongs to all of us, um, despite what our lived experiences are, despite the situations that we were born into, um, but we all have a birthright to receive healing and to receive it in a way that is quality, is ethical.
And it's also responsible. And so I'm also speaking to my healers and my practitioners out there as well, that I think that we have a responsibility, even though I think sometimes we don't necessarily acknowledge that. Um, but there's a responsibility that we carry with being healers and we are modeling for, you know, our clients, um, people who look up to us.
You know, what does it mean to be, um, a healer, you know, in whatever form that looks like. And so I challenge folks, uh, to consider what type of healer they want to be and how they want to show up. Um, while also doing their own healing work as well so that we can all be authentic in our, in our exchange.
[00:37:42] Rita Burke: So what would you say was the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
[00:37:49] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, I feel like it's so many, I feel like somebody, I was just at a conference this weekend and somebody asked me that. Um, but I will say that it wasn't necessarily a piece of advice. It was almost a card that someone handed to me, but it said, trust your own inner wisdom.
And so I am really leaning into that. I think, uh, sometimes I have difficulty in trusting my own intuition and my wisdom, and I've been challenged on that. And so I'm really just trying to lean into, you know, what does that look like to really trust me? Um, and to be confident. entrusting me. And so, um, yeah, I'll just share that advice.
Um, and again, it wasn't necessarily advice, but it was a card that someone passed on to me. And so, um, it's hanging right here. My office is something that I see every day. Um, because I like to, you know, consider when I'm making decisions, okay, how are you trusting your wisdom? How are you leaning into your intuition?
[00:38:48] Elton Brown: So when working with individuals that look like you, do you find it easier to connect to them as opposed to someone who may be an ally?
[00:39:02] Candace Oglesby: Yeah, so I think there's a difference between ally versus like co-conspirator. Um, and I'll say that ally is more so, right, the folks who will stand outside the arena. Um, and you know, they might cheer for you.
They might advocate. But a co-conspirator is going to get in that ring with me. Um, they are willing to lose some things. They are willing to get their hands dirty. They are willing to give up their power, their privilege, and their influence. And so I will say that, um, I think naturally, I think there's an openness that I have.
And working with people who look like me, but I feel like having been an entrepreneur for the past three years, even people who look like me are not always practicing cultural humility. And unfortunately, sometimes we can oppress each other worse than the white dominant society can. And so I think it's important that I align myself with people who are aligned with my values and what I deem as important.
Um, what I find is morally right for me, um, and, and that can look like anybody. Um, but I think as far as clients, I think there is this, I think there's this natural like not having to, to explain. And again, representation is important, but you know, when I think about myself, you know, as a business owner, I want to be aligned with co-conspirators, um, and that can look like anybody um, so I'll just I'll say that.
[00:40:43] Rita Burke: You leave it right there, right?
[00:40:47] Candace Oglesby: I am. I'm just going to, I'm going to leave it right there because I think that we all, we all are intersectional human beings. Um, and we all have to practice from a lens of cultural humility. I think that is so important. Um, so, you know, I think before I used to be very trusting of people, even who, who look like me, but if we're not all operating from a place of culture.
Cultural humility. Um, we can somehow still miss the mark, even with people on the surface who, who look like us. So
[00:41:20] Rita Burke: I just hope for us.
[00:41:24] Candace Oglesby: Absolutely. I mean, I think that Certainly, you know, I think because of our own suffering as a people, I think we are more inclined to, to learn how to operate from a cultural, culturally humble, sensitive place versus where I think other people where that's not their lived experience, where they're not experiencing oppression on a day to day basis.
I think that that's some still very hard to, um, To be able to receive, especially if that's not your lived experience, whereas I think sometimes it is a little easy with people where that is their, their lived experience. But, you know, again, I think we all have something to learn. Um, and I think we're all in a place where we can be humbled just as human beings, right?
[00:42:13] Elton Brown: I have to agree with you. It's something about thinking that you can trust your people that look like yourself and then finding out. The hard way that that is not meant to be, I want to thank you so much for sitting with us today and sofas and enjoying ourselves as you talked about your personal journey of recovery.
You gave us an overview of, uh, the significance of your training in the IFS, the Internal Family Systems, and then the, uh, Eye Movement Desensitization and the, uh, Reprocessing. I thought that was really great. You went into such depth. We're able to see and feel what you are actually experiencing, which was kind of scary, but very good.
Uh, can you shared an example of a situation that where you. We're advocating for equity and diversity and you and I noticed that throughout your. While we were talking, you definitely tide it back, to whatever you were doing back to the community, which is very, very important, and how your personal grief and trauma, how that you use that energy to help individuals who are in those In that same situation. So I want to thank you again for being with us.
[00:43:51] Candace Oglesby: Thank you!
[00:43:53] Elton Brown: Please keep doing the good work and we will meet again!
[00:43:59] Rita Burke: Thank you. This certainly was a privilege to be in your company. You are very pleasant, very knowledgeable, very experienced, and I see you as a community builder, and I certainly appreciate that.
[00:44:15] Candace Oglesby: Thank you. It's a privilege. Thank you.