Empowering Diverse Voices: Nadia Hohn's Crusade in Children's Literature and Education

[00:00:00] Elton Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! 

[00:00:17] Rita Burke: We call ourselves SpeakUP! International for a reason. Because on SpeakUP! International we have the opportunity to speak with people from across the globe. Today we spoke with someone from California and someone else from Washington D.C..

But we're back home right now. We're going to be speaking to a homegrown. author. Nadja Hohn is an award winning educator and author of several books for children. Her book Malaika's Costume was the 2021 TD grade one book giveaway! Nadja teaches in the elementary panel and she teaches writing for children courses at post secondary institutions. Help me to welcome Nadja Hohn! 

[00:01:10] Nadia Hohn: Thank you! Hello. 

[00:01:13] Elton Brown: It's such a pleasure to have you with us. You write so many books! You must truly enjoy it. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into writing for children. 

[00:01:29] Nadia Hohn: First of all, I want to thank you so much for having me. It's great to meet you, Elton and Rita , it's great to see you and speak to you again. And just to talk to you about my background. As, uh, Elton had mentioned, I am a teacher. And I have been teaching now for just over 20 years. I have always had a love of learning. I have a love of creativity, a love of my culture as my parents were they immigrated from Jamaica and I was born here in Canada.

I have a love of Jamaican culture, black culture, black history and I grew up I always, I consider myself a creative child. I studied music from a very young age. I play the piano, and I love to draw, and I love to write, and I love to read, and I knew many, I had many frequent trips to the library.

My father would take my sister and I, and often when I went to the library and looked for books, I was looking for books where characters look like me, and when I went to the school library, I looked for books where characters look like me, and I also look for books where the kids were from different countries so even at a young age, I was looking for diversity, and it was diversity that I wasn't quite getting in my classroom, and whenever and if ever I found a book featuring a Black character, a Black child character, I would just absolutely adored it was hard in those days. 

This was the 80s in Toronto and thankfully I've seen a lot of growth because, many years later, I'm now an author, but I certainly was reading and looking for those books. And then when, by the time I got to high school I actually was writing.

Stories as a kid, and then I started keeping a journal. I started to write novels, but I didn't finish them by the time I got to high school. I was writing for my high school paper, and I was quite involved in social and extracurricular activities and music I was teaching piano and playing in different bands.

And as I got older, I just thought writing was a thing that I didn't even consider it as a career possibility. Even though I had staged a play, even though I had staged a play that I wrote, even though I had written For magazines and I wrote poetry, I didn't even know this was really a career that I could do and still love.

And I think I wanted to also protect the writing because I thought it would be It's a thing I took a lot of comfort in, it was like my therapy. So I didn't want to turn this into a career and make this the way I have to and maybe I'd start to hate it if I had to make this a career. Life went on I.

Thought I would go into different career paths, but it eventually led to becoming a teacher in education and started teaching and taught for a number of schools and then I was one of the first year students, or sorry, first year teachers of a brand new school opening up in 2009 called the Afrocentric Alternative School.

I was one of the inaugural teachers there and I, I was teaching first grade and I was looking for books to put into my classroom and I looked all over and then 2009 there weren't a whole lot of books for the first graders. I was going to the U. S. and I was finding a lot of books. Same thing. I was looking for books for first graders for my classroom that were affordable, that were reasonable, and some of the books that I even knew of were no longer in print.

So I found that as I was looking for books and collecting books, I started getting ideas for stories. And then I said, I need to write these down. And then somehow I found out about a writing for children class at George Brown College. George Brown College has a continuing education department. So I started taking night classes there, writing for children and really enjoying it.

And then it was actually 2010, end of 2010, I got a diagnosis of thyroid cancer. And when I got that diagnosis, it made me think of life a lot differently and I said, you know what, no matter what I need to get published. I need to just get a book, have a book in publication and travel. That was the other dream.

And as I was going through the process, writing was a huge part of my healing journey. And as I was sharing that writing on a blog, I realized, wow, I actually. Need to do this. This is more than therapy. It's more than something. I love a hobby This is actually what I want to do with my life. So I Decided to with as much Drive and ambition as I could muster pursue the path of publication And that is how I got on I think on this the path to becoming an author It became a snowball effect and I met publishers, I met editors I went to events, I networked, I just started learning more and then eventually it led to my first two book contracts.

[00:06:43] Rita Burke: So it seems to me as if you, Nadia Hohn, have two parallel careers going on at the same time. So tell us about what led you into education in the first place. 

[00:07:02] Nadia Hohn: Thank you for bringing that, because that is exactly how it feels. There are two careers going on at once. I have always enjoyed working with children.

And even from a young age I just found I would connect and work well with children. And, in high school, I was a camp counselor. I taught piano to kids. I am an old, I'm an eldest sister and so I've always been like the I always had that, I don't know, maternal esque instinct. I loved to work with children.

And I realized there was actually one point when I was in university and I thought I'd like to start a magazine. And and I did do some writing, as I mentioned, with different publications. But what I found was that I wanted to work directly with people. And I wanted to work with children. I wanted to make things better for black students.

That's what I had thought about. I wanted to be an inspiration. I wanted to encourage black students and I loved the arts. So I thought, being a teacher and educator, I can actually help to I can do my art form in my classroom. That could be part of my teaching. I can be creative and use and work directly with children.

And so I began to pursue that path, not, I didn't know I'd be in it for 21 years. I'll be transparent with you. I'm still in it. But when I first started out, I just thought, you know what, I'm going to do this. This will be great. Side career for whatever else I do. So I didn't know I was going to be a writer as well.

Yes, professionally, I just said it's gonna be a good thing. It's always gonna be there. It's gonna be my fallback and honestly it's been a it's been I wouldn't say it's been an easy smooth sailing ride all the way teaching is rough, teaching is challenging. I've taught in many environments. I've taught kindergarten to grade 12 over the pandemic I taught in colleges and universities I taught a year overseas in Abu Dhabi and Dubai as well.

It's been a very, it's a huge learning experience. I was at the Afrocentral School for seven years as well. As I mentioned, I'm very passionate and one of the reasons I became an educator was because I wanted to help and be part of that move to make schooling experiences better for Black students.

But in terms of just, I, it, a teaching has been a very yeah. Rewarding challenging in so many ways, and I, this year, past year, I've been teaching part time and that is just something that I have to figure out as I, I also navigate the two careers. What's the best combination?

How am I going to do both? But I love to work with the students. I do. I work with wonderful students. So it's a privilege. It's an honor. It's part of, I think, what I'm here to do. And I think I'm a natural teacher. I think it's always been part of me in the work I do in the books I write as well.

[00:10:09] Elton Brown: So how has your educational background, including your degrees from the University of Toronto and the University of Guelph influenced your writing and teaching? 

[00:10:22] Nadia Hohn: Okay. Thank you. So I have an undergrad degree in honours psychology from the University of Waterloo. And one of the reasons I thought I was going to proceed possibly going into being a psychologist or being a psychotherapist.

And then I went to U of T, I went to OISE, which is the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education at the University of Toronto. Did a Bachelor of Ed there so I could become a teacher, did my Master's of Education there. And in that masters, I wanted to focus on curriculum for black students. I was particularly interested in ways to engage black students and my, my what it ended up happening was I did complete the master's degree, but with a more course based approach.

So I just, I did several courses in my degree in sociology and equity studies. So I have an equity lens. It's always been a part of me as I had mentioned, as a kid, I noticed. The absence of books that look like me I experienced racism, I didn't, I knew it wasn't right. I really was aware of my cultural background.

So I brought that into my master's study and that I think is partly the core, the heart of the writing I do. So that was, I graduated with those degrees. By 2005, I finished my master's degree in education. The thought of doing a thesis, I decided not to do one in the end, so I just wanted to finish and I wasn't sure I thought about doing a PhD wasn't quite sure and I just thought I just need to get out of the school system because by that point I had been in studies for 25 years consistently, 20 years consistently, I felt like I needed to just get out into the world of work. 

I did apply for a doctorate studies, did not get into the programs I applied to. Coincidentally, it was the same one month span of the times I got my book contracts. So even though I didn't get into the doctoral programs, I got these offers.

And, I was like, wow, this is it just felt like my world's going to change in a huge way and it was a little scary because I didn't know what to expect. And this is 2013. This is about, yeah, I was just wondering what's going to happen and had all these questions. And then I just took a step at a time move forward.

And that year I signed my book contracts in June, and then I actually went to Africa and when I was in Ghana, it was my first trip to Africa, and I had this feeling like I need to do whatever I do in my life, I need to bring honor to my ancestors and all the challenges that they've gone through, and to bring honor to my great grandmother, oh, everybody.

So I had that feeling. That was also part of my mission. So all these things that kind of come together. And then when it came down to it, I started writing and publishing and I forgot to mention I also applied to get into a Masters of Fine Arts and Creative Writing and two programs and I got rejections as well.

So that was in 2000 and oh boy. 2000 and maybe 11 and then 2015. So I got these no's but I was getting published. I was getting published, I was getting contracts, I didn't have an agent, I wasn't self publishing, I had So all the things that I heard people say it was really hard to do or you can't do, I was doing.

And then but I always had that idea behind me, maybe I'll apply for a master's. And then I had to go back to the office for creative writing again one day. So it happened that I did that and then the pandemic hit and that's actually what I did over the pandemic. I worked on. Master's of Fine Arts in Creative Writing.

[00:14:12] Rita Burke: What a story! Nadja Hohn, what a story you have to tell. 

[00:14:17] Nadia Hohn: Yeah. 

[00:14:17] Rita Burke: Now, based on what you're telling us, you've been writing for a mighty long time. 

[00:14:25] Nadia Hohn: Yeah! 

[00:14:25] Rita Burke: You also wrote for a magazine called Psychology Today. Talk to us about what that experience was like for you. 

[00:14:35] Nadia Hohn: I was, when I went, I did an internship and I was 20 years old and I was working for this not for profit and we had to find our own internships.

So at the time I really thought I was going to start a magazine and I wanted to go to the, to New York City. I knew that I wanted to go to New York City. It was 1997. There's no internet was still very young. Email was very young. I don't even think we had email yet. So everything was very young, we didn't even have social media and I, a few people said, no, you can't do that's not allowed, or, oh, you're not going to get that, but that made me want to pursue it more.

Finally, I won't get into the whole story of how I was able to attain the internship but I applied and I went through just the process and one, got let down by one publication, had to start all over. Bye. And then when I finally did get to go I was stayed, I have a lot of family in the States.

I stayed with my aunt and I commuted and went to, to work in Manhattan and it felt very glamorous to say, I'm working for a magazine in Manhattan. And then of course I was at this magazine and. I didn't, they didn't give me a particular job to do, but I knew I wanted to write and get something published in the magazine, because I actually read this magazine, Psychology Today, and I was very honored that they select, they allowed me to come and do this work, and I actually was working there for free, pretty much, because I couldn't receive payment, but it happened, so it happened one day that their secretary didn't show up and they needed somebody, so I actually filled in that role and I filled that role a few days, and I also got to sit in on meetings, and work on some articles, and do research, and go through the archives, and also access, they gave me access to a lot of the books that they couldn't They get lots of books sent to them and I came up with a huge suitcase full of books, but it was a time where I actually like, wow, this is what a professional writer is like.

And that's another thing I realized after the experience. It was, I loved it, but I felt I want to work with people directly. And that's, I think another reason why I didn't jump into that industry. I felt like I'm going to miss the kids. Like I kept thinking about, I'm going to miss the kids. I'm going to miss that.

As I loved it, very amazing. And certainly I have the articles there. You can find them online. If you Google my name in the magazine title, you can find the articles. But it was such an honor to have that opportunity. And know that I didn't listen to what everyone said. I just went after my goal and did it.

[00:17:25] Elton Brown: All I can say is good on you for not allowing someone or anything to keep you from achieving your goals. So how has your experience of participating in the media, or free press junket on October 6 impacted you as an author and educator. 

[00:17:48] Nadia Hohn: Okay, I need to The media, let me just double check. How is it for me to, can you repeat that?

[00:17:58] Elton Brown: So how has your experience of participating in the media or press junkets on October 6th? 

[00:18:04] Nadia Hohn: Oh, press junket, okay, the press junket. Yeah, so that was on Thanksgiving weekend, and it was the first time I ever done anything like that. I've heard of press junkets, but I had no idea what it was, I was the opportunity came, someone from CBC reached out to me and said, Hey we like your book. It's before Thanksgiving weekend. It was the anti racist kitchen, 21 stories of recipes. The book had just been out just under a month. And I said basically we'll interview you across all the CBC stations across Canada.

And we do that in the span of a few hours. So you can have up to 15 interviews in three hours, three or four hours. And I said, All right, let's do it. Bring it on. It was great. It was great. I I had my station set up. I had the, my everything timed out and I felt like a huge rush.

I was so like, I was just ready to bring it on. And, each interview became easier as you go along and like they give you a little bit of a framework before you start and. I just enjoyed it. It was great. It was great coverage for the anti racist kitchen and I had 14 interviews in a span of Three, three hours, three or four hours, and I was just like, you know what, I want to do this again.

And it was all done by radio, so it was like they're, it was a show that people would listen to as they drive home from work. 

[00:19:30] Rita Burke: Sounds like was an exciting experience for you! 

[00:19:34] Nadia Hohn: Yes. 

[00:19:35] Rita Burke: Tell us about your involvement with ICED in Black. 

[00:19:40] Nadia Hohn: Oh, wow. Ice Thin Black was a film festival that I started when I was a university student at the, in Newton Waterloo.

The first one happened in 2001, and I managed I, it was student run. And I had this idea because I wanted to have a festival that celebrated black film, and black film by Canadians. And I knew of a few films at that time, and I managed to, I had connections with someone who was Linus Kedore, who was doing Get Real Black Film Festival here in Toronto, so I was able to, through him make contacts with other filmmakers, and then it just grew decided by 2002, I was actually wanted to bring it across Canada, and, I think that was the year that I was in university and Toronto.

So I moved to Toronto. So I brought it to by then 4 cities. So it was Waterloo, Ottawa sorry, Waterloo, Ottawa, Toronto, and I believe Montreal. And then by the 5th, sorry, the 3rd year, it was 9 cities across Canada. I feel looking back, it was a very transformative experience for me because. I ran this on a very shoestring budget.

I was living on OSAP, basically, and running, I managed to fundraise, get grants get sponsorship, all while I was doing my teaching college, Teachers College, and starting my master's, and I was always a student while I was doing this, and by the end of that I burned out and I was also very broke.

I had no money and I thought I was going to I needed to just take a break from it and I threw myself into my teaching career and I thought I would come back to it at some point and I had certainly had a few movie screenings. It felt also very I think jaded and bitter by the old school experience.

By the end, I felt like a failure. Looking back 20, 21 years later I realized I was only like 24 years old running this event. I didn't have any business diploma or studies. I was running on passion. And ingenuity and faith. And so that's, you gotta be, when you do those things, it's like when you're young, it's good to do those things.

And I realized now I'm like, wow, I wish I could have hugged that girl and say, you did amazing. Give her a check so she can at least take a vacation to get back her bearings and just really know that. And the truth is today the Canadian black film industry has grown exponentially.

There's so many more black filmmakers, there's so much, many more resources and supports and grants and ways for people to get their films done, made out there. There are black filmmakers who were starting out when I did Ice and Black and I showed their films and they're now at the top of their game working with BET and in the States and doing all these internationally pro international projects.

And I feel proud that I was. It's part of something at the very beginning and and it still stays with me. I bring that same drive to put Black stories out there on film. It's the same drive I have to write my own stories and to amplify other Black Canadian writers. 

[00:23:10] Rita Burke: Mind you, I think you can still hug that girl and give that girl some grace, because I'm sure lots of learnings came out of that project. So you can still hug that girl. 

[00:23:24] Nadia Hohn: She deserves a big hug and also a number of the filmmakers, I would say a few of the filmmakers I'm still in touch with and have, they don't forget, they don't forget. A few of them are still have been like, and I say, I thank them because. They remember, and they've also remember how young I was.

[00:23:43] Rita Burke: How young you were? My word! 

[00:23:44] Nadia Hohn: It wasn't perfect. There were, I messed up on some things, definitely. They knew, they could see that, and I'm so thankful that they allowed me that grace. They could still say thank you at the end of the day, 

[00:23:55] Elton Brown: what motivates you to continue writing plays and picture books and novels for young people in addition to teaching? 

[00:24:06] Nadia Hohn: Well, I think okay. So I'm going to be very transparent. So I, I am, I always have lots of ideas for stories and I certainly am always know. I know that there are many kids who need to see stories that look like characters that look like them. Read books that I didn't see when I was a kid.

So I know that they need these books. I know that they need to see them. And there's so many stories that need to be told that aren't getting told. So that keeps me going. I love to know that children who read my books feel seen, see themselves, see something familiar and know that they could become writers one day.

Cause I certainly feel if I had seen that early on, Thought differently about a career in writing and pursuing that so that keeps me going. My, my thing is also there are times where writing can be challenging. So I give myself some grace to say, okay, you know what this season or the season might be just.

I'm going to focus on this thing. And, like, when I Black History Month is approaching, so I know that a lot of presentations are coming up, so it's going to be harder to write. consistently during that time. So I'm going to give myself some grace that I'm going to just focus on presenting and put together a really strong presentation.

And then during that time, I might take some notes about to come back to my stories. And the things I need to do to motivate myself and help, but finding community is also very important. I think as writers and meeting other writers has also given me the motivation to keep going because I realized I'm not alone in it.

And there are times I've certainly felt that way. Especially when I was starting out and and I found, but I found community and I, if I didn't find it, I created, and I created a group called Sankofa's Pen, which is a focus on Black Canadian, kidlit, young adult writers and illustrators. So it's just that kind of thing where we're helping to celebrate our history and our culture and provide a legacy because we don't, I don't want the next generation to forget their connections to their roots.

Especially as a first generation Jamaican Canadian, I want the next generation to know about, some of our experiences and just to normalize seeing black people in books. and reading books. 

[00:26:42] Rita Burke: And reading. Reading for the love of it, actually. 

[00:26:45] Nadia Hohn: Yes, that's actually the name of our conference.

[00:26:47] Rita Burke: Yes, yes. So then, you mentioned at the top of our little conversation, Nadia, that you were one of the inaugural teachers at the Afrocentric School. 

[00:27:01] Nadia Hohn: Yes. 

[00:27:02] Rita Burke: Want to hear more about that wonderful, exciting experience at the Afrocentric School. 

[00:27:10] Nadia Hohn: I felt that when I heard that the school was going to open. At the time I was teaching the second grade at another school, not that far from Afrocentric. And I knew I wanted to be a part of this. I knew I, whether they hired me or they, or to volunteer, that I just wanted to be a part of it. It felt like it was a kind of school that I've always wanted to teach in.

Cause I do think about black students so much in their experiences. And yeah, so I went with that. I interviewed. I think it was June when I interviewed the school opened in September. I was hired and then parts of the summer we, we met to, to work on like how, what we're going to do in the classroom.

I would say that there were a lot of a lot of I felt like I was stretched in a number of ways. I generated so much creative content. I start, it was the reason I started writing again for kids. I was writing poetry for my students as writing songs for my students and I was using in the classroom.

I was I created designed and decorated my. My classroom in a way that would affirm their African and African descended identities. I found creative ways to teach. We had a carnival parade inside the school and invited guests. And they just, to do a unit focusing on carnival culture. And I just, I felt like there's a freedom to just try things out.

There was so much like I, I did a whole unit on like ancient Egypt and again, creative stuff from scratch. That's where I really, I think, especially that first year it was stretched because there was that piece, but there was also the demands. It was a very like I said, we. We hit the ground running and I think I stopped, I don't think I stopped, I had very long work days. It was very challenging in that respect. 

[00:29:12] Rita Burke: And because it was the first of such schools, I guess you were under the microscope. People were watching to see where the school would go, the trajectory. So you were being watched by both parents. And educators and politicians, yeah, and the community and the media.

There's no question about that. Now was Tando the first principal? 

[00:29:38] Nadia Hohn: Yes, Tando Hyman was the first principal and I was very aware that there was, I think we were all as teachers who were working there, very aware of the that, right? And then one of the other challenges was because I mean there were so many there and I don't know if I'm at freedom or liberty to talk about all of the challenges.

But certainly knowing that we were being challenged internally, but also on the outside, we're also trying to be keep things very together is a very interesting and strange and it was, like I said, it was a lot and I was there for seven years and certainly it was the passion and drive to see the school succeed and see my students succeed and to really take all those things I've learned that about my African identity, about my culture, about growing up here in Canada, about seeing all the Black students I grew up with who had so much potential, but The education system wasn't fulfilling those needs, all of that came into it.

I wanted to really connect with my students. I organized so many trips that year as well. I did I organized a day to go to Bathurst and Bloor and just, we, I think we visited I don't know what your business is. I think we did. Yeah, because I wanted the kids to see black businesses and see a community where there is these flourishing black businesses.

I took them to Dr. Montague, who's my dentist. I talked them to a different book list. I took them to the Burke. I think you had a gallery. I took that I wanted them to see community we went back to the classroom and then we drew. A map of what we saw, because I wanted that learning to be real for them. It just there was so much and also challenges because we got a lot of demands.

We got a lot of flat. I don't think people saw how hard we worked. 12, 13 hour days very hard work. Yeah. 

[00:31:44] Elton Brown: Wow. Yeah, it sounds like your creativity was just. The floodgates had opened, it was just coming out. Yeah. Yeah, you're loving every second of it. 

[00:31:57] Nadia Hohn: Also mentioned I wrote my first picture book Malika's costume that you mentioned that's where I wrote it while I was teaching there.

[00:32:05] Elton Brown: Wow. Wow. So can you share some insights in this experience of you, doing 100 book presentations? Oh, that must have been a Yeah, out of this world. So please tell us a little bit about that. 

[00:32:21] Nadia Hohn: And you know what? It's I realized it's more than that because the presentation. Sometimes you go to a school and you'll be there for the day and do four presentations at one school.

So it's definitely more than that. So I yeah, over the years as much as a teacher, I, teachers, we were presenting all the time as I just in our classroom and But yeah it's part of being a writer and one, it's just something I actually enjoy, some writers don't like presenting, many of us.

I'd say most of us are introverted by nature, including myself. But I love to see how kids respond and adults respond to my stories. I love to connect with my audiences. I, when I taught in the Middle East, I was still an author there and I wanted to connect with the community there. So I presented in the United Arab Emirates, I had a friend who lived in England.

So I visited her and I presented there. I went to, so it's I often, when I traveled would make sure there was some opportunity to share my story or be connected in some way. And I have a lot of family all over the U. S. So I got to present in many places and I always have a Like a city to visit.

Yeah, it's, especially this time of year, you're getting a lot of requests from schools. They want to bring I think they have a variety of talented black authors and artists to reach out to. And I'm always happy to present. It's an honor. This is again, a dream I didn't know I could have done as a child, but it's certainly helping me to use all the talents and skills and experiences that I can bring when I present the music, the art, the teaching, everything, 

[00:34:06] Elton Brown: when you were when you were going to these hundred book presentations worldwide, was this when you were on your shoe string budget? 

[00:34:17] Nadia Hohn: No, this is, no, because the festival that I did was in 2002 and 2003, and and now that I'm an author my first book was published in 2016, so I've been presenting from then, 2016 to now, so I've definitely done more than 100, and they, there's periods when it's really busy, like February is quite busy.

But it spread throughout. And yes, I do, when I do presentations I, I, it's part of my work. So it is paid work as well. So it's not I, sometimes I've had to, when I do plan my own book tours, which I've, I certainly have done I've found ways to fund it alternatively, as I mentioned.

Yeah I've done it all and the great thing is I planned a film festival tour when I was 24 and now I plan my own book tours. 20 years later, so it's same skill set 

[00:35:16] Rita Burke: So you learn you got skills you accumulated those skills and I like to call them portable skills that you can put in the suitcase and take anywhere that you go

[00:35:26] Nadia Hohn: Exactly! 

[00:35:27] Rita Burke: Now we're talking with Nadia Hohn Who is an author an educator and on SpeakUP! International we seek to inform educate and inspire and there's no question that her story will do this for our listeners. Now, you've got several children's books. Do you have a favorite? And which one would that be? 

[00:35:49] Nadia Hohn: No, I don't have a favorite. It's that would be like picking my favorite child. I like to usually say the one that's the newest gets the most attention. It's because you're promoting it. I'm presenting it a lot more. I have two new books. And one came out in May last year, the other one came out in September.

So I'm often talking those ones up, but it doesn't mean I love the other ones less, just like kids, right?

[00:36:19] Elton Brown: I find this, amazing when you said that statement about "I can't pick one more over the other because it's like kids." I think I've heard that from everyone who writes books. 

[00:36:31] Nadia Hohn: Oh, 

[00:36:31] Elton Brown: They all use that same statement which is natural! Yeah, so can you elaborate on the unique challenges that you faced when you were doing 13 Interviews across different time zones. I know you talked about that but I want to know how hectic was it.

 I, you know what, I don't think it was I feel, I felt prepared. I thought it would be more hectic, but I don't, I just felt prepared.

[00:37:05] Nadia Hohn: I had a schedule. I just had everything set up for me and waited for each call and it was pretty. I was able to navigate the conversation, the interview questions, so I didn't feel that. I feel just the being a teacher requires you to be so flexible and you have to present and you have to be on and ready.

I've taken that kind of approach to everything. Yeah, 

[00:37:35] Rita Burke: Now, here is our signature question. That I ask of everyone who visits us on SpeakUP! International. Who or what would you say is responsible for the person you are today? Who or what is responsible for the person you are today?

[00:37:55] Nadia Hohn: I think immediately what came to mind was my work ethic. It's why I grew up with very hard working, Jamaican mother, who and her mother, I thought that immediately and I think that is a big part of it, I had those like stories for generations and the hard work and the modeling, I have a very Intense work ethic, and I need to make sure that I am doing what I need to, so I'm not burning out, which, can come with that kind of work ethic as well.

But it's the hard work and knowing that I need to do my part in my success is dependent on a number of things, but also hard work is a big part of it. And faith, and my faith, and having that modeled for me as well. So I think those are two things that are responsible. And caring enough to know that I have a part to play in making this world a better place and helping the next person.

And again, seeing that enacted by both of my parents who tend to, go all out to help others. So I, and it helped us, they're kids. So I think, I've seen it as modeled for me and then I've been using that approach myself. 

[00:39:24] Elton Brown: So what is your process when you write your books? Is it a very defined process that you use like a checklist of sorts? 

[00:39:36] Nadia Hohn: I think it's changed a bit over the years, like I'm considered, in writing we say you're either a plotter or a pantser. A pantser is someone who flies by the seat of their pants, hence pantser. So I consider myself a pantser, I'm just write, I love to write.

And as time has gone on and I've been learning more about the process of writing, I've learned how I can use those tools to help me to write. The stories I do faster, maybe even in, in stronger stories as well. Outlines do help when you're writing a novel, for example. And sometimes they can feel a little restrictive, but they can also be very helpful.

So I tend to I wouldn't say I'm the person who writes every single day, but I find I'm very passion driven. So when I'm on my, when I get on a roll, I'll go going for hours. And then there are times where I have to like, okay, why don't I just start with the title? And that's the goal for the day.

Or why don't I just do some bullet points? And that's the goal for today. So I'm working on that. I'm just going to be transparent. I learned recently that I have ADHD. This is just a, I've learned this is last year. And, actually, December, so literally a month ago, but it's helping me inform me about how I write and why I write the way I do and how I work and why I work the way I do and I think it can be also helpful tool for me to create a system that works for me.

So it's a work in progress. It may change again. You can ask me that question and. Six months and I'll have it maybe a different answer for you. 

[00:41:17] Rita Burke: So here's another question That I want you to be really transparent about because you've been very authentic and I certainly appreciate that What do you do to bring joy and peace in your life?

[00:41:31] Nadia Hohn: How do I bring joy and peace in my life? I like to slow down when I can I like to do nice things for myself I like to go to the gym if I can, or just get my nails done joy and peace, it's just having time to myself, I really I treasure that, I really enjoy that, having time to be quiet and still, that's, I actually really enjoy that too, so there's just different things I do, Maybe it's cooking a meal, like a meal that might take a little more time, that brings me joy and just talking to a friend brings me joy, seeing a play brings me joy, so I enjoy the those things that I really love to do. Self care does bring you joy.

[00:42:25] Elton Brown: So what do you think your next book is going to be about? 

[00:42:29] Nadia Hohn: My next book, I have two books coming out. One is coming at the end of this year and the other one is coming out in the early next year. So there's the next book right now, our title is Getting to Grandmas. And it's based on an experience that I had as a child.

And yeah it's going to be about a girl who has a love for something. I don't want to give 

[00:42:55] Rita Burke: You can only tell us so much about it. I got it. You can only tell us so much about it. Yeah, I hear you. 

[00:43:01] Nadia Hohn: It's based on a true story. 

[00:43:03] Rita Burke: Yeah. 

[00:43:03] Nadia Hohn: And next year, I have a book and I, the thing with these, I have a title for it, but then I found out that the title may change.

So if I give you the title, it might be hard to. To explain, but it's has to deal with patties, Jamaican patties. 

[00:43:20] Rita Burke: Oh, nice. 

[00:43:21] Nadia Hohn: They grew up eating in yeah, I wrote it in the year 2000, and just by the nature of the publishing industry, it's a slow industry, so it's finally coming out next year. But I'm working on other, always working on other stories and plays and other things as well.

[00:43:38] Rita Burke: So what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? 

[00:43:42] Nadia Hohn: Best piece of advice I've ever been given?

That's a tough one. I, there's so many things that went through my mind, and one of them I'm thinking is just, it's just being, listening to your instinct, your gut, listen, and really listening to figure out what the next step is and fail forward. I can't remember. I heard that, but feel forward. So even if you mess up or have a misstep , you're continue moving forward.

[00:44:13] Elton Brown: You talk about writing plays. I'm wondering how large are we talking about? Are we talking just very small plays for kids, or are we talking, a Broadway play that you, that maybe you're thinking about? 

[00:44:29] Nadia Hohn: I haven't written like a, I know Broadway plays quite involved. I've written a play for kids and we got to stage it in the fall, which was amazing.

And it was like almost like a re it was like a paired down play and there's music in it, and I included a song that I'd written in it and that was a amazing, it's my first time writing specifically for my students to be in a play. But I've written plays in high school, like small plays for me and my peers.

And then I decide, like now that I have my books, I've. I thought a lot about it just how I go to play so often, so I really am thinking also about I'd love to stage them one day and I'm trying to figure out and learn as I go about the next steps to making that happen. So I do see it on the stage.

In the future, that would be a dream.

[00:45:23] Rita Burke: Is there anything at all that you want to speak about that we have not asked you? 

[00:45:29] Nadia Hohn: I do want to share a little bit about my books that I mentioned that came out. So this one is called Malaika Carnival Queen and it's the fourth book in the Malaika series. The other books are Malaika's Costume, Malaika's Winter Carnival, Malaika Surprise, and then Malaika Carnival Queen.

This book is in this book Malaika Has a dream. It's actually got some, a little bit of family history and also a real, it's inspired by a dream that I had. And in this dream, she sees a man in the dream flying with a basket of fruit. She wakes up and tells her family about this dream. And it just opens like a box.

And she learns about the origins of this man, who this man was, and turns out it was her father. And she learns about how to make the dream that her father had and making it come true. Her father was a migrant farm worker and my grandfather, who I did know, was a migrant farm worker in the U. S.

But I had another grandfather who was a migrant farm worker who died when my mom was quite young and I never met him. And I don't have, I've never seen a photo of him. I was inspired by that experience. As well as the dream to write this story, and that's called Malika, Chronicle Queen. And then the other book that came out in September is called Anti Racist Kitchen 21 Stories and Recipes.

This is a middle grade anthology cookbook. It has 22 contributors, award winning authors from across North America that are Black, Indigenous, people of color. Sharing stories and experiences with racism. I've organized it in four chapters. Reclaim, Restore, Resist, and Rejoice. And I wanted to give for middle graders, which is age 8 to 12, 8 to 13, an opportunity to read and learn about ways that they can fight racism or to even understand what a racialized person goes through.

And for kids Black kids, And for children of color, Indigenous kids to see themselves in the book and see authors, real life, living authors who look like them, talking about their experiences and how they were able to navigate racism. And it also offers teachers a guide. There's a teacher's guide that goes with it, but also teachers can use it in their classrooms to cook, but also do anti racism work and build communities.

So I wanted to share those two books with you and Yeah, they're doing, The Antiracist Kitchen is a bestseller. It's been nominated for a bunch of awards and has amazing star reviews. I hope your listeners will go out and get these books. 

[00:48:24] Elton Brown: Wow. I'm just amazed at the, the last book that you talked about.

Because I would, as a writer, I would find it difficult to talk about racism to smaller kids, so how do you go about explaining the art of racism? 

[00:48:45] Nadia Hohn: I have a thought that you shouldn't hide things from kids. And I think you can write about anything as long as it's in an age appropriate way.

So I think kids are very curious and they have a very strong sense of justice. When even my middle graders, when I'm teaching intermediate and you explain to them some of the incidents and the discrimination that happens in the world. I was teaching French and I was talking to the kids about how in Quebec they were trying to pass a legislation that people couldn't wear religious head coverings.

And the kids were livid and very. Very impassioned about like why that's stupid. Like why would they do that? And I'm like that exactly they know what's wrong. So I think they know they just need You know, even the tools like we have these conversations as adults about racism and discrimination all of that But I have a glossary in the book There's words to break everything down so they get they can have they can be part of the conversation But in a way that's age appropriate and you just got it as, especially as teachers, we know how to do this.

We differentiate by grade level, maybe in kindergarten, you're talking about, our skin colors and how beautiful they are and how we can all be friends and treat each other fairly. That's still doing anti racist work, but it's for that age group. And then as you get older, you can just layer it and build on it.

This book addresses everything from colonial oppression to reclaiming names and exiling people based on race to assimilation and all these things, right? There's all these things that kids go through. A lot of these are experiences that the authors went through as children.

So kids are, it's happening. It's, they're experiencing racism already. So let's. Let's talk about it. Let's write about it. And I think that's where my, my, my creativity and my skill as a writer comes in. I know my audience and I know how to adapt the story that I want to tell for that age group. 

[00:50:47] Rita Burke: Last evening, I was with a group of women online. We were talking about children's books. And one of them mentioned that her grandson, who plays hockey, I suspect he's about 13 years old. He's really good at what he does. He really scores the goals. And he was the only one on his team that was scoring goals.

And the children from the other team were not scoring. And the referee pulled him aside. And reprimand him, reprimanded him for doing so well and just scoring those goals when the other kids are not having as much fun because he's robbing them of the opportunity to get, could you imagine doing that to a child because he's being so successful?

And I say that. to respond to your comment about teaching kids about racism. If that wasn't racism, I don't know what else it was. But of course, the child's parents are very conscious and very aware and very confident and very articulate. And so they raise the issue with the referee concern and it was taken to, it was escalated. It was escalated. 

[00:52:05] Nadia Hohn: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And certainly, I want kids to know they, they have things they can do about the situations. I want them to feel empowered and I hope this book helps them to feel empowered.

[00:52:17] Elton Brown: I think that your books will make children feel empowered. I'm just wondering about your rec recipe book, and it has this section for teachers who's using this book. I'm gonna be, and I'm gonna be very, I'm gonna be very direct now, who's using this book? Is it just black teachers that are using this book or allies or white people or 

[00:52:42] Nadia Hohn: Everybody. It's the book is for everyone. I think everybody has a different entry point. And like I said, racialized people reading the book are going to feel seen because I made sure that their their contributors were a black, indigenous, Asian, Latinx South Asian Caribbean.

So they're going to see themselves and I want to go back to a quote by Dr. Rudine Sims Bishops, who is a Black educator, scholar, activist for multicultural children's literature. And she says that books need to be windows, mirrors, and sliding doors. The books can be a mirror, because they're a reflection for that child of color, or that reader of color.

They can see themselves represented. The book can be a sliding door. Because it allows children of, who are not of those ethnicities can actually enter the story and understand and see and windows because it can look into the story, right? And this book has been it's a BC bestsellers right now.

It's on the BC bestseller list. It's number two this week. It was last week. It was number two last week and number four this week. It is was in the Toronto Star. It was actually announced today. It was OLA, Ontario Libraries Association top 10 best bet. So it's one of the top 10 books they've recommended for the year.

And it's anyone. It's best bet. It's received a lot of star reviews, so it's for anybody. It's not for one particular person. I do hope, like I do, when I wrote it, I'm thinking of Children of color. That's who I, my primary audience, my black, indigenous, black, brown, Asian, every child of color.

Especially those ones when I go to Alberta, for example, when I went there and there's that one child of color in a whole audience. And they see me and they're like, wow, I want that child to feel seen and that's why I wrote the book for. I'm also thinking about a teacher who is.

Whether it be the black teacher like me in schools where you're very, one of very few and often the one who wants to do anti racist work, but your colleagues say, oh, it's just too much. It's too overwhelming or I can't get it or whatever. Start with the recipe. Start cooking with your kids and have conversation about the food.

Or about, the allies who are, want to do anti racist work and They just need tools. So this is a book that there's many ways to enter. As I said there's it's all here. There's a lots of, the glossary has a lot of rich terms that, we talk about stereotypes, we talk about truth and reconciliation, we talk about oppression and what that means and about displacement and discrimination and being exiled and there's all of that stuff in it, but there's also like rice pudding, And funny stories, and stories that'll make you laugh, and stories that'll make you cry, and it's got pizza in it, and soup

[00:55:46] Rita Burke: To some degree, it's inclusive and given my experience with selling books over the years and having a bookstore and meeting lots of educators, I believe that most of them want to do what's right by the children in their care.

So regardless of what. They look like it. I really feel that most of them want to do what's right by the kids. And so they will embrace and perhaps use that book to help them with their curriculum. 

[00:56:17] Nadia Hohn: Yes, definitely. Definitely. And that's why I wanted there to be a teacher's guide. Because I and the response has been very positive.

It's been very positive so far. Because some of you don't write a book, you don't know how people are going to respond to it. And I'm just. So thankful. It's just been I presented at the Ontario Library Association yesterday had a bunch of the contributors on a panel and we just had a wonderful conversation about what the book was about. So yeah,

[00:56:44] Elton Brown: This has been one. I'm going to say roller coaster ride. We have definitely covered so much ground through the use of your books. You've lived a full life. You definitely are an educated woman. Degrees from the University of Toronto, University of Guelph. Your books are beautifully written and designed.

I love the cookbook. I really think that book, for me, if I'm going to learn about another culture or another race, that is the way that I'm going to do it. It's gonna be by the, it's gonna be by the food. I want to know how, what it is that you eat. And I can more or less take it from there. So I really didn't get that you're book.

[00:57:37] Nadia Hohn: I like to say that it's hard to argue with someone who feeds you and nourishes you. It's hard to, if your belly is full, you're happy. You're not ready to be hateful, to be honest. And a lot of these are home, are actually recipes. That come from families, like I have my mom's Jamaican cornmeal porridge recipe.

A lot of my contributors have asked their parents or grandparents, like they, these are family recipes. So that makes it extra special! 

[00:58:08] Elton Brown: Wow. Wow. This has been a total blast. I'm hoping that you are going to continue for the next 20 years writing plays. picture books, novels for young people and for the older set.

It's, you have a gift. Please don't stop sharing it. And thank you so much for sitting with us this afternoon and talking to us. It's much appreciated. 

[00:58:43] Rita Burke: Quite the pleasure. I certainly appreciate as well. 

[00:58:48] Nadia Hohn: Thank you so much, and it's been a pleasure for me, and thank you for the legacies and the work you've done as I walk in this on yeah, you've led the way and I'm just walking through this too, so thank you so much.

[00:59:04] Elton Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact Ms. Nadia Hohn, please leave your name, your email address and the reason why you wish to contact Ms. Hohn to www.nadiahohncom. Are you interested in the opportunity to be interviewed and have your cause promoted by SpeakUP! International? We invite you to connect to us by sending a message that includes your name, company, or organization name, the valuable service you offer to your community and your email address to info@speakuppodcast.ca. 

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