Bridging Dreams and Reality for the Marginalized with Kev Lawler

[00:00:00] Elton Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! 

[00:00:13] Rita Burke: There is a common thread running through all of the conversations that we have on SpeakUP! International. Whether we're chatting with a person from England, or a person from Mexico, or a person from Nigeria, And that theme, or that thread, is that all of the people we speak with, we select for SpeakUP! International, are all givers.

They are community builders. Today, we are speaking with the person who fits that mold and who has spent over a decade in business development and has now pivoted to a place where he is attempting to remove barriers for marginalized individuals and groups. Today, we have as our guest on SpeakUP! International, none other than Kevin Lawler.

Kevin, we welcome you. 

[00:01:11] Kev Lawler: Thank you so much for having me. Delighted to be here and look forward to the chat.

[00:01:14] Elton Brown: Wow. I can't believe that you're here. Actually, what motivate you to transition from a 15 year career in business development and recruitment to working on initiatives for marginalized communities? 

[00:01:29] Kev Lawler: Yeah, I, um, for me, I don't want to say the word risk taker, but I've always been somebody who's, uh, not afraid to jump when, uh, when the opportunity is there, uh, I've always been sort of raised to believe that when opportunities arise to seize them, uh, the journey was super organic, transparently, um, I've been in sort of Or for want of a better term, the, the serving community or giving back sort of community or philanthropic community since about 2017.

And it manifested with getting involved in a charity boxing event, uh, which being an Irish person is a bit of a cliche, but, uh, but yeah, I, I got involved in a charity boxing event on the journey of, Taking part in the events and learning about sort of the charity side of it. I learned about an incredible organization called the Pinball Clements Foundation.

They've been in existence in Toronto for about 15 years, given back to various communities. Their main goal is to see sustainable employment outcomes, true mentorship and education and changing the narrative for marginalized communities. And I think meeting some of the young people just filled me full of inspiration.

And that sort of started a little journey. Uh, of, uh, volunteering, serving, giving back, connecting, uh, broadening my own perspective. It's really interesting. We, we talk a big game at our organization about our main goal is broadening perspective and removing barriers. But I think the sort of the genesis of that came from my own perspective, being broadened from being honest about learning about folks, learning about what's out there.

And, uh, and transparently Elton, if we're to be honest with you, I was in absolute disbelief that. What I thought was useless garbage that lived between my ears could make a measurable impact in people's lives. Uh, when it first started happening, I was like, I didn't want to tell anybody because I didn't really understand it.

I was like, I was sitting there going, Oh my God, they got a job. That's cool. Uh, we'll just leave it and keep going. Don't tell anybody you're just living in this world. And I didn't think I sort of almost deserved to be there, but, uh, it's, it's been an incredible journey. And, uh, I've, I'm very, very grateful to be in it right now.

[00:03:30] Rita Burke: Sounds like you are passionate. About what you do, Kevin, and that you're enjoying doing it. So, let me go back to something I mentioned in your bio. You worked in business development. Talk to us about what was fulfilling about that. 

[00:03:47] Kev Lawler: Yeah, I, I think from my perspective, um, you know, and I did in Ireland and a little bit UK specifically Northern Ireland, but that's the UK, I guess when I lived there, it was, um, I, I was afforded the opportunity to solve problems and I always sort of liked that.

And I think that was sort of the fulfilling piece and whether it be sort of rolling out a project when pivoting to the recruitment industry, and it was finding that person for the job and filling that project, you were solving a problem for somebody. And I guess. You know, maybe, you know, maybe there was a sort of a piece I didn't understand myself where it was their service in that there's given back in that there's fixing this fixing an issue.

And I think that was probably the most gratifying piece when I talk about my work in the recruitment and consulting world was there was a problem, and I got to fix it and then I got to see the results of fixing said problem. So, I think that was probably my biggest piece. 

[00:04:38] Elton Brown: So, can you tell us, Kev, more about your role as program lead for the Pinball Clemens Foundation? 

[00:04:45] Kev Lawler: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. No problem at all. Uh, started off super organically. Uh, I attended, um, I attended, uh, what we call speed mentorship session. Um, basically it's, uh, 15 to 20 minute conversation with two individuals, Q and A back and forth, um, mainly about business, about careers, about interviewing all those things.

I did one of them in 2019 at, uh, at George Brown college. December. I remember the morning specifically because it was really cold and even though I've lived here for 13 years, I'm still a bit of a wuss when it comes to the cold, still moan about it every year. Like, I'm not expecting it. Uh, so, uh, yeah, I went in and did it, met some incredible young people.

And then at the end of the conversation, the executive director came to me and said, would I be interested in giving back more? And I had already been connected to the foundation from, um, from, from the boxing events and sort of volunteering my time there. Uh, and also being a patron, you know, myself and my organization's always donated funds to their work.

And, um, yeah, it manifested from there. We started very small doing resumes, connecting with young people, connecting them to folks within my network. Now, when we look a few years later and now that I'm not a volunteer and it's part of my work with the Whiteboard Collective and we're partners in that, um.

It's, it's running all of their career programs. So anything where the desired outcome is, is employment and employment outcome, we run it. So everything from running a workshop in a high school to recruit folks into our programs that are in third level education, be it college and university, all the way true to looking after our alum.

And placing them in careers and better careers and our graduates and everything in between coops internships. I think right now, the community sitting at the end of this year, which is terrifying to say it's going to be about 400 folks that we're actively looking after and involved with, which is incredible.

And we're so grateful to do it. But basically, these are young folks from marginalized communities. And we ensure that At the end of our journey with them, they're in career, and hopefully they're still involved as ambassadors in our work. So that's what our work looks like right now. It's full program development and, uh, facilitation.

[00:06:53] Rita Burke: I hear the term marginalized very often because we talk to many people who are advocates on behalf of people who are in equity seeking groups, I would say. How do you find the individuals to work? 

[00:07:11] Kev Lawler: Yeah. So, so it's a really interesting thing. So when you say marginalized and I, it's so interesting because marginalized is quite a spectrum.

And I think it has multiple definitions, and I struggle with that because depending on where we're sitting in this country, it's a completely different community. Currently, we run programs for the foundation here in Ontario, but we also run programs in Manitoba and Alberta. And we're going into British Columbia and potentially going out east, which being an Irish person, I'm very excited about.

Um, but in terms of finding the communities, we connect with various community partners. So we work directly with organizations that impact community and that can who they are and what they are manifest in different ways. They can be community based organizations like the amazing folks. I know you're connected with Yace, Jane and Finch, who are just a cornerstone of the community that provide it.

A plethora of resources that cover the full holistic journey of life, be it housing, be it education, be it mentorship, be it sport, everything in between. We also work with homeless shelters. I've done some work with the likes of Covenant House, Youth Without Shelter, things like that. But then I also partner with other organizations that are culturally relevant.

The Black Talent Initiative, we do some work with some Indigenous groups out in Manitoba as well. So it's a fairly diverse group, but basically we want to align with organizations that are making an impact in community and be that extra piece. That career piece that piece that's measurable to help to actually sort of, I guess, be a catalyst in community.

That's sort of the main aim. So that's how we find them. We source them. A lot of it starts off on the Internet, but like the best things, um, they come from people. It's referral based things specifically, you know, my, I, I have a soft spot for Winnipeg. It's incredibly cold, but the people are incredibly warm.

So they even out, I believe. But, um, when we went there for our first trip, every organization that we met with referred another because they saw the benefit of the work. So, you know, I think that's something that I think the rest of the country could learn a bit about because a, it made my job a lot easier, uh, but B.

It showed a true commitment to community. There was no competition about funding. There was no, there was no sort of concern or, or territorial sort of piece. It was very much like, oh, you can make a difference. You want to help people? Great. Meet this person, meet this person and so on and so forth. So that's how we source organizations that we partner with.

[00:09:37] Rita Burke: So based on what you're saying, obviously you are a community builder and on SpeakUP! International, those are the people we speak with, with the intention or with a hope or with the goal of inspiring, educating and informing So you're helping us, helping us to meet that goal. Thank you. 

Thank you very much. And again, I know we're recording right now, but after the fact, I have a Rolodex.

I'm happy to connect you with anyone you like in my network.

[00:10:03] Elton Brown: Feeding the marginalized is a hot topic right now. We are providing all of these other services, but what good are those services if these individuals, are hungry. They can't see anything but the hunger. So how does your organization Help, uh, individuals who are hungry? 

[00:10:25] Kev Lawler: Yeah. So it's, we're an interesting beast in that, um, when you, when you see us online and you talk to maybe even myself or anyone who works on my team, you'd automatically think we're a not for profit because we love helping folks.

Like we're, we're so interested in helping people. We really, really care. We're actually not a not for profit. We, we, we are a social enterprise. So we donate money and time every month to various organizations. So technically last year was the first year of the Whiteboard Collective. We are partners with the Pinball Climates Foundation, but we are a separate group and, and that's who we are.

We. Basically support a litany of organizations. We try to support grassroots where possible, mainly because a thousand dollars to a grassroots organization is worth, I don't know, 52, a multinational. So we look at smaller based organizations. When we travel across the country, we have preferred charities of choice.

Next week, we go to Winnipeg. There's an amazing organization there called the Agape Table. I love the Agape Table for a couple of reasons, and he'd be somebody I'd recommend you speak to because he's an incredible man. Agape is Latin for unconditional. The reason why I like them is they don't have a de a religious denomination connected to their work.

So they'll, they meet you where you're at. They don't care who you are, what your creed is, any background, anything else. They meet you where you're at. The reason why I love the work that they do is they are ruthless about metrics. And what I mean by ruthless is he could name to the meal of what he gave out last year.

So I went to see him and he said, I walked into his office and I said, Dave, great to see you. It's been a while. I have some food for you that we brought. And also I have a financial donation. And he said, uh, 133, 751. He didn't say my name, he just threw out that quite robust number. And I said, in my head, what the hell is he talking about?

That's weird, but okay. Good Dave, what do you mean? That's the amount of meals he gave out last year. So right now he's serving anywhere between 700 to 800 folks a day. So every time we travel, uh, we try to give him Two of three things I always joke and say two out of three ain't bad because we never give him the turd.

He wants time, money, or food. Uh, so this time around we have food and money for him. Unfortunately, we never have time for him and I feel really bad. Uh, we have time that's a half an hour to give him a hug and have a chat, but we never have four and a half hours to get in again and you know, get working.

So, um, in terms of feeding folks, uh, that that's primarily the work we do right now is with the agape table in Winnipeg. We have supported, uh, specifically around the holiday seasons. Uh, food banks here around the area we're in, which is East Toronto. So Scarborough food banks and things of that nature. Um, we have also cooked, uh, meals of the likes of Youth at Edge Shelter in partnership with the, with the Pinball Clements Foundation.

Uh, Thanksgiving meals, uh, we run a Christmas party every year with the foundation where everyone gets given gifts. It's, uh, it's pretty amazing. So, uh, we do have a huge issue right now in this city as it pertains to the cost of living. I think there's a slightly concerning, um, sort of inflationary rise that's happening consistently.

And, uh, obviously my, our area's career, so I know what the average person earns. I have a decent foothold in terms of remuneration, and I don't know if they're quite succinct just yet. In fact, I would argue there's quite a large gap. So, uh, my hope is we can do better because the lines and food banks in this city are too big and, and that's a problem.

And you're very right. Uh, you, you said it quite eloquently at the top there, Elton, is how can you focus on getting better, improving your life, making a measurable difference if you're hungry? It's quite, it's quite a difficult thing. So, uh, yeah, appreciate that. 

[00:14:19] Rita Burke: I like your transparency, Kevin, in that you made it really clear up front that you're not a non for profit.

That, that helps me because I was going to ask that question. As a matter of fact, I assumed, but I didn't ask the question. And so, one item I gathered that's high on your priority list. It's to facilitate meaningful dialogues between the individuals you support and organization. What does meaningful dialogue look like and sound like and behave like to you?

[00:14:52] Kev Lawler: Sure. Yeah. So, so at the Whiteboard Collective, we do three basic things. One is the partnership with the foundation, what leads all the programs. The second piece we call our community hub initiative is we have a year long partnership with a company, an organization. Uh, over that time we facilitate meaningful dialogue.

So you asked the question and wonderful because I wish more people did. Uh, meaningful dialogue is human connection. So when we, um, have a group of individuals who are open to exploring an organization, we bring them to our office. And we bring c-suites here. So in order for the Whiteboard Collective to have a partnership with an organization, we require an executive signer.

Uh, because, um, essentially if you don't have executive buy-in, we, we, we, we struggle to get things done. Um, so meaningful dialogue for us is often in person where we remove the formalities of the workplace so people can understand what an organization is like. What a company's culture is like what a leader is like without having to do research without clicking send on a profile on a website on linkedin on indeed, they're actually shaking hands and talking to an individual.

We facilitate fireside chats here in our space here in Toronto. So, essentially, we'll have a leader come in. And this space is relatively small, but we've packed the rafters a few times. I think if the fire marshal drove by, I'd be in a bit of trouble. So food for thought moving forward, but we'd have upwards of 40 folks in here and we'll facilitate Q and A's.

And I don't allow folks to prepare for it. So whatever questions get asked, get asked. We don't allow presentations. It's a Q and A and I facilitate. So the business BS for want of a better term is removed. We're just having human dialogue. And that can be as simple as what's the worst part about your job?

You know, what keeps you up at night? Where have you failed as a leader? You know, and that's those human dialogues are the ones that actually make people want to work for an organization that remove false or validate apprehensions about an industry. And the one thing that we found is we did one recently.

For construction. We had 40 individuals that didn't know a construction firm in our space. 23 of them wanted to work there after the fact. Now we're in the process of earning out those numbers, but that's over 50 percent of folks that were able to have a meaningful chat with a senior vice president at an organization and a manager of people and culture.

They're able to have a dialogue, learn about a company, learn about an industry, and then at the end of the dialogue say, I want to work there. You know, and they have their pick. We have a robust network and we work with all industries. They have their pick and they still said, I want to work there. They didn't even know the company beforehand.

So it's, uh, that for us, that's meaningful dialogue. It's human in person. 

[00:17:36] Elton Brown: So how do you envision the collaboration with Orlando Bowen and one Voice Team contributing to your mission of empowering youth and removing barriers for marginalized communities?

[00:17:51] Kev Lawler: Yeah, Beau's my brother. I love Beau very much. He's an incredible man.

So, you know, I won't tell Beau's story, but Beau's story is incredible. And he's an amazing man. So he is one of our partners at the Pimbalth Lemons Foundation. I met him in, uh, 2020, I believe, like before the pandemic, just before it, um, his organization, One Voice, One Team, lead youth leadership, uh, initiatives at high schools and schools across the country.

Um, I think on their. busiest years they've done north of 50, 000 young people or something insane like that. Uh, yeah, he's a professional speaker, dynamic with a capital D. He's an absolute hero. I love him very much. So, uh, we, we partner in various capacities within our, um, relationship with the Pinball Feminist Foundation.

He runs mentorship. We run careers. So we, we work in tandem and in partnership with our organization. So both of our staff are interconnected. We're like family. We get on really well and not in that cliched way where it's like, Oh, we're family, but we're just saying that because it looks cute. But we get on very, very well.

You know, we're, we're, we're, we're really tight. Um, the other thing is he's, he's one of my board of directors. I have, I have, uh, three amazing humans on the board of the Whiteboard Collective and Orlando was one of them. So, uh, in assembling our board, we wanted somebody from not for profit, somebody from community and somebody from consulting and to say Orlando fits the community build is an understatement.

We're so grateful to have him and, uh, yeah, I hope I know him till I breathe my last breath. He's an incredible man and his work is amazing. 

[00:19:26] Rita Burke: So Kevin, I'm going to cheat and I'm going to ask you two questions at the same time, but I know you wouldn't mind because you seem to be, you seem to be a fair person.

So let me ask you my two questions. First of all, you're talking about we, who are the we? And next question, I may have to ask it again, is What does the ideal resume look like? 

[00:19:48] Kev Lawler: Two great questions. Um, uh, we is my team. So we have a team of five people right now soon to be a team of nine, which is slightly terrifying.

So, uh, I have, uh, my partner in crime, uh, Tori, who basically does all the actual work. I'm, I'm just the talking person. She makes it actually happen. Uh, we have an amazing lady called Camisha Miller. Camisha works on our team as our community manager. She is, uh, 15 years working in community bachelors of social work.

She basically manages all the profiles of all the young people that we interact with. She has certificates of crisis intervention. So if we have any issues around mental health, she jumps in. Um, Johnny boy, uh, who works all of our data. He's a previous student of ours. He basically ensures that all the success metrics we have, we track.

So as we move forward, we understand how to grow and how to do better. Uh, we, we, we. If we see fluctuations in our performance and the work that we've done, we want to understand why so data is a, is a big part of the work that we do. And then lastly, uh, Curtis Burton Rowe, uh, he is our head of IT and he also is, um, the equivalent of Steven Spielberg.

He has like 10 or 15 cameras and he shoots all of our content. He makes us look significantly cooler and better looking than we actually are. So that's me. That's, that's, that's my team. And then we have a board of directors. Graham Rowe, Rowan O'Grady, and Orlando Bowen. Uh, and then we're, we're in the process of hiring three individuals right now to join our team as we scale and grow.

So, so that's the we. That's, that's who the Whiteboard Collective are. Um, I get a lot of credit because I'm a big, tall, gregarious, tattooed Irishman that's not afraid to talk and I have a funny accent in North America. So I get a lot of credit, but without them, this doesn't, the ship sinks. So I'm, I'm a big, big advocate of the We. I'll never claim to do all of it myself. And ironically for an extroverted person, I actually really don't love attention, which is hilarious because, uh, I'm, I'm very comfortable putting myself in these scenarios, but, uh, it's, I'm not big on attention, which is hilarious. Um, the perfect resume I'll summarize.

It's actually a really easy question to answer. Uh, the perfect resume is the resume that has the reader in mind. And that's the, that's the best way I'll answer it. Um, the argument is there's no such thing as a perfect one, but if you think primarily of the reader and care less about how you're perceived and more about the fact that you're understood, that's the best resume for me.

I've looked at 8, 000, I would say, maybe more in my career, so it's, it's, yeah, it's a big one. 

[00:22:18] Elton Brown: Okay, you know Pimball Clemens, which is a big sports, uh, individual. I think he was, he played football. And I've had the opportunity to meet him. He's very nice, very nice guy. So can you tell your interaction with, with Pimball? And did he help you reach your, your goal? 

[00:22:42] Kev Lawler: Yeah. Um, I met Michael in, in 2017 and I'll be, I'll be transparent. I'm Irish. I don't watch the sport he played. He's the GM of the Argos, apparently incredible at football, like really, really amazing. I asked him what he did for a living. Because I have no concept of who he is, uh, and he, I'll never forget the best answer ever.

He said, I used to play football, but not the kind you watch my Irish brother. Because obviously we call football soccer, uh, or voice versa. Um, yeah, um, I've been trying to catch him out for like seven years. He's like that all the time. I was Irish people by our nature are a little bit skeptical. Uh, he is one of the most incredible individuals I've ever met in my life.

Um, it was my birthday in the, in the summer. Uh, in July and every year I joke, I call it my yearly midlife crisis and I, I used to play music. So I have a band set up in my garden and we, we play and we sing songs and we break bread. We have the, we always have a mix of Caribbean food and like New York style pizza.

It's a weird mix of the two, but it's, it's really great. Um, and Michael, Michael Pim, sorry, Pimball and, uh, and Diane, his wife came and my mother had never met him. She was over from Ireland and she just sees this incredible life. Just walk in. He's like a life force and how to describe why. It's just a wall of energy and to say, uh, it's, you know, to say he's a good human being.

It's almost like a, it, it's a disservice to the definition of the words. Um, you know, and, and he, he, he hates attention as well, which is ironic 'cause he's amazing at it. Uh, he's one of the most incredible individuals I've ever met in my life. Uh, I think I have a new perspective on what giving back is through my interactions with him.

Has he helped me hit my goals? I think he helps me reevaluate them all the time. We have very brief interactions at events where we'll just have a hug and have a quick chat because we know at events that our job is to go out and talk and promote the work and promote the young people. We'll have this brief moment where we just sort of say appreciate you, appreciate you.

What do you need? What do you need? And they're, they're really small, efficient interactions. And to say I take something away from it is just an understatement. Uh, he, he, he's an incredible, incredible human being. Um, I, I did a thing, um, last year for Black History Month about Black Excellence. And I got to talk about, you know, what Black Excellence means to me.

And I just did a picture of Orlando and a picture of Mike, you know, and the, the, their boat in tandem with me is just incredible humans. And it's like, that's Black Excellence to me because I get to meet them and talk to them all the time. So, uh, yeah, Michael is incredible to say he's helped me hit my goals is I think he helps me re evaluate them often.

Uh, I think that's the thing. Uh, every time I speak to him, it's a different dose of perspective. I always feel like I can do more. Uh, and I think we're, we're, we're always really aligned. Um, He, every time I speak to him, the first thing he says is he appreciates me. Uh, and I don't think he's saying it because I want to hear it.

I think he's saying it because he genuinely means it. 

[00:25:36] Rita Burke: So he's authentic. He's authentic and he's humble if I were to describe him. Now, I had a bookstore in Toronto and I met Michael Pinbaugh Clemens. And it's interesting how when you're in his presence, how he makes you feel important. Not that you're seeking it, but he, he, he diminishes himself and elevates you, I think is a wonderful organic kind of strategy to humanize people.

And that's how I would describe what I know about him. I haven't seen him for ages, but I know he's still doing wonderful work out there. 

[00:26:15] Kev Lawler: Yeah, I would say to be fair to you, Rita, that's a very, very accurate description. Uh, and by the way, that doesn't stop. That's the weirdest thing is like, do you know when you get to know somebody normally after a while, specifically when you first meet them, you're like, they're bad ass, they're great.

Really enjoy them. I feel great after speaking to them. It just doesn't stop. It's a consistent thing, you know, and it's, it's, it's the whole spiel to sound like the first time you met him, you know, and yeah, he's an incredible man and like Bo, I hope I know I'm for the last breath. Very, very amazing. man.

[00:26:44] Rita Burke: So Kevin, you've done a lot of things. You're doing a lot of things. You're doing great things. And I can't keep up with what you're doing, you look like a relatively young person to me. So who would you say or what is responsible for the person you are today? 

[00:27:01] Kev Lawler: Uh, yeah, that's a really good question. Uh, first of all, thanks for saying I look young.

Can we clip that off and just keep that? I don't want to keep that on my desktop because I've aged like a banana in the fridge. But, uh, yeah, I appreciate that. That's very nice of you. Um, I have a lovely foundation. I think, um, I have amazing grandparents. I have a remarkable uncle, an amazing mother, just, just great family.

I grew up with a, with a really, really, really, really, really great sense of family. Um, I think that that's a big piece of it. You know, when we talk about specific to now, what, where we are, where we are, and why I think I'm in the situation that I'm in is I've always surrounded myself with incredible human beings, just amazing friends, amazing work folks.

And the fact that I'm currently at work right now, speaking to you, I find hilarious. If you told me this year, it's, it's amazing. So you're going to say. What are you doing Friday morning for work? You're going to get checked to lovely people about the work that you do, have a coffee and a chat and then, and then just go on about your day.

And then later on, we're designing soccer jerseys that we're sponsoring, uh, you know, for, for, for a couple of kids. And then. Later on in the evening, we're planning a trip to Winnipeg where we're donating 800 socks. Like, I'm just grateful and I think that all manifests around who you surround yourself with.

And, you know, I, I'm so grateful to have an amazing network of friends, a wonderful family, a great wife, a fantastic kid, um, yeah, just great, great people. If you look at the, the, the crew with the Whiteboard Collective, as I call us, they all come from our community. I've never hired anybody externally. So, uh, Tori is somebody I've known, uh, for 13 years.

Uh, you know, his family absolutely adore her. Um, Kurt is the first person I ever placed as a volunteer at the foundation. John is also one of the first people I ever placed through the foundation. Kim is a cousin of one of our graduates. We've just kept it around people. So, you know, if I have to say why I am where I am, it's, it's, it's, it's humans.

It's people and I'm very grateful to have them. 

[00:29:12] Elton Brown: You are with Careers Driving Social Impact. I want to know, how did you get there? This creation? What was the passion behind 

[00:29:24] Kev Lawler: it? Um, for the longest time I ran my own business. I ran two recruiting firms. One was growing to a pretty cool extent and was doing really, really well.

But during that whole time, I volunteered my time with the foundation, so much so that Tory was taken on as a part time administrator to sort of, you know, coordinate the work that I was doing, but we would do it at night. So 10 o'clock at night, I would jump on to my, to do my foundation work. We called it, I wasn't being paid.

I didn't need to be, I was making a fairly handsome living in the recruitment world. And it got to a stage where it was very difficult to juggle the two. They're like the business was scaling almost at a million dollars. And, and, you know, it's, it becomes a different beast then. And then because we were getting results with the foundation, they're able to fundraise because they have results.

So they're able to go out and fundraise and raise more money because they can say this individual used to live in a homeless shelter. Now they work at a bank. Look what we've done. Transformational work. They can go raise more money in the community, corporations and everything in between. Um, I was having, I actually remember the day because it was the day I said, F it, I'm doing this.

Uh, you know, and it was an interesting one, but, um. I, I was dealing with two phone calls where I was playing sort of phone tag with two individuals. One individual was part of my professional day as a technology recruiter, and the other part was part of my volunteer piece. Um, one, the individual on the recruiter side had received a fiscal offer, uh, that he was not happy with.

This individual was 27 years of age, uh, had every leg up you could have in the world in terms of the life he was brought into, privileged with a capital P, and I wouldn't hold that against him. Um, but definitely, you know, really good looking. A Waterloo grad, the guy could have been in a Korean boy band.

He was so handsome. Um, and he had an offer, I think of 110, 000 per year. Pretty good salary, you know, and he wasn't happy with it, um, wanted an increase. And I remember speaking to him because his initial ask was for 90 and I got him 110. And then suddenly he wanted 130. So the dialogues were a little bit tense and I felt very unappreciated and just didn't enjoy it.

And the interactions were kind of poor and annoying. And then I had another individual who was helping get an internship at Toronto Star. And the young lady called me. Um, and this is part of my volunteer work. And she was, she was crying, absolutely sobbing, inconsolable and I said, darling, what's wrong with you?

You all right? What's, what's going on here? And she was so, so grateful that I had edited her resume and helped her with a cover letter to get this role because she was the first person in her family to go to high school and finish. She was the first person in her family to go to third level. And now she was the first person in her family to have an internship with a brand and a company people knew.

And I sat there and I said, I have two individuals. I have this like very gifted, beautiful human, but they're, you know, they're, they're, they're privileged and a bit ungrateful about the money that they're being received for their technology job and an asset manager. And then I have this individual who's screaming, crying to thank me and calling me.

I've been called many things, but I was called a blessing, which is weird for me, but I was a blessing, um, by another individual who got a 17 an hour internship at Toronto star. And I said, who do I care more about, you know, is the world a better place that this Asset manager has this individual, or is the world a better place that this person feels something?

And I think it was at that time I made a decision and, you know, was lucky enough to, uh, you know, I had some life circumstances around family planning that that sort of aligned and, uh, I was able to sell the shares of my business back to my partners and, uh, and set up the whiteboard Collective. So that, that was the, that was the genesis of it.

But it was, it was very much, you know, real human interaction that just sort of caused an epiphany. And I sort of haven't looked back and, and don't intend on it. 

[00:33:11] Rita Burke: So you blessed her and that will go on your resume and I don't know about Elton and I'm sure I could speak for you. You're blessing me now with how spontaneous you are, how organic you are, the kind of giver you are.

So today we are speaking with Kevin Lawler and, uh, Kevin, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? 

[00:33:35] Kev Lawler: Be yourself, be authentic. This is generally it, is that if you can do that, that's the way to go. It's like, people are often afraid of silly things, like what other people think about them, and then trivial things like spiders flying and things like that.

I am afraid of flying actually, but, um, you know. The thing that I've always been afraid of is when I breathe my last breath, knowing that I could have done more and I had the ability to do more. That's a, that's a big, that's a big thing for me. So no regrets. And if you can do that while being you, life's life's a much more enjoyable journey.

[00:34:08] Elton Brown: So what is your next big project? What do you see happening within 2024 what is your vision? 

[00:34:18] Kev Lawler: Yeah. Um, we have incredibly exciting times coming with the foundation. We're rolling out five micro credentials, which essentially is, um, where mentorship and education intersect. And in a short period of time, a three month period, um, At the end of it, we have employability.

I'm actually placing folks right now. I have 15 of them now, I believe, still to place. And that's going to mean at the end of the year, all going well, we've placed 130 folks into career. With the additional projects we have, uh, you know, on top of that, we'll probably get close to 150, maybe 160. So the reason why the Whiteboard Collective has always been a little bit different is we're not a not for profit and that doesn't mean we don't love not for profits.

We want to amplify not for profits to get better, to get more funding, to grow. Our numbers are their numbers. All success data for us is shared. So because we, we think like that, my primary goal is get to a thousand employment outcomes. I think right now we're hovering at around 200. So right now I want to get to that thousand number.

Transparently, I'll tell you from being honest with you, as soon as we hit that thousand, I know myself next is 5, 000, you know, and we keep going and growing. But, but I think that's a big piece. Uh, we're a relatively new organization. Technically we, we're only finished our first year. So I think that's a piece.

Um, for us that we, we have to understand what do we want to be and how do we want to grow? The one thing we never want to lose in this growth is ourselves. Are we authentic? Are we happy? Uh, I, I, I know people often say we're like a family at work and you know what? Like some are, and some are just saying that, 'cause it's a cute thing to say.

Um, you know, I, I, I live in, I live and breathe for me team, uh, you know, and, and vice versa. I, I know I can ask them anything and they can do the same. So I think a big thing for us as we look to grow is. Can we keep that culture sustained, that real true family culture where everyone knows each other's kids, everyone knows each other's families.

Are we connected? Are we happy? So I think that's the next big thing is, is, is to get to that thousands employment outcome milestone and successfully execute for our partners at the Pinball Finance Foundation, because it's a big undertaking and it is regional. So it's not just in Ontario. It is in Alberta, it is in Manitoba, and it will be at BC, hopefully towards the tail end of this year.

[00:36:35] Rita Burke: It's interesting that you're using language that I like to connect with. You're using, you've used two of my favorite words today, organic and authentic, and they are so very meaningful to me. And that word, uh, Elton May's smile, authentic, keeps popping up, keeps popping up ever so often. Maybe it's a message from the ethers, or from the higher being to me, that I need to live my life authentically.

It's popping up ever so often. But I've got a corny question. And I know as an Irish person, you wouldn't mind a corny question. And that question is, tell us about a book that has influenced your life or impacted your life. 

[00:37:15] Kev Lawler: I actually like this question. Uh, it's very funny. So I, uh, given me work, I often get the opportunity to sit around, uh, you know, really smart business folks.

I call them corporate Kathy's and they're great. Like they're really brilliant. A lot of the times they're super, super smart and I'm sitting there all tattooed and a little bit different. And I've got very decent business acumen so I can, I can hold my own, but the favorite book conversation comes up all the time and.

Nine times outta 10, they're talking about Simon Sinek and Who Moved My Cheese and Good To Great all these like business books. And I'm not about that. And as you said, as an Irish person, uh, we're like the, we're the country of wonder and fairytales and sort of fiction. Uh, my, my, my favorite book by a Country Mile is, is, uh, A picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde.

Um, and I've taken so much more from that book than any business book ever, and I've read them all. It's. fine. They're all just analogies for like, do your work. So I think, uh, when we talk about what I, what I take from, uh, that book specifically is, uh, uh, taking a long hard look in the mirror or in this instance, a demonic picture, but, uh, you know, uh, looking at yourself, not being afraid to ask difficult questions, self introspection, thinking about yourself, thinking about your impact in the world, understanding we all have a bit of a monster in us, control that, do better.

Understand that, that, you know, we all have flaws and, and that, and that's a big part of the book. I'm a bit of a controversial guy. I like loud music and tattoos and I, I train martial arts and I'm into that sort of, I'm not your typical D. E. and I guy. The fact that it was the first ever band book is something as a young person that.

That sort of appealed to me. I was a bit of a counterculture kid. And so I think the book was banned and a big thing was why are we policing the artist? And, you know, I, I did like that. Oscar Wilde's a, an amazingly talented man. So yeah, for me, for me, that's my favorite book. And it's funny because I say that all the time on panels and everyone looks at me like, why hasn't he said, you know, something by Warren Buffett or Ray Dalio or any of these business dudes.

And I'm like, they're cool and all, but like, they're not fun at parties. You know, I don't want to go out for a pint with Ron Buffett or Ray Dalio or any of those folks. I'd love to listen to them talk, but, but, but not necessarily in a way that, uh, that's, that's for fun versus for business.

[00:39:35] Elton Brown: You do so much, Kevin, in terms of working with so many different organizations, creating meaningful dialogues. How do you see yourself achieving in a sustainable community building projects that you are currently working on? 

[00:39:54] Kev Lawler: Yeah, I think a big part of us, uh, for this year and I got to do more of it is lean on my board of directors, they're really, really smart.

I think that's the reason why we have them, uh, you know, a big thing is going to be leaning on others, uh, to get their advice and not being, uh, not being afraid to be humble when, when you're burning out a bit. Um, a thing that sort of differentiated us as an organization so far as we work at a lightning pace, and that's what a lot of not for profits say for us.

So we'll go away for two days to Winnipeg for meetings, and we'll probably have 11 to 14 meetings and run programming for three or 400 folks if we could, you know, and that's the way we push it as much as we can. Now, some trips are busier than others, but we work at a lightning pace. So I think in terms of what's going to help us get there is, is our community itself like, um, You know, as much as we give a lot, you know, sometimes we're going to have to be able to receive, uh, the right hiring, to be honest with you, like, like any team that, you know, the right folks on the bus is a, is a big part of us, a big part of what we've done well is the right folks.

To get more of them on as we grow and scale. And I'm a big believer in having difficult conversations. Like I think the road to change anywhere isn't built on the easy chats. It's actually not. It's actually sometimes it's uncomfortable. And I'm being okay with that. I think that's in the pursuit of.

Actual productive change. It's okay to have a difficult chat, you know, and I think that's a thing for 2024 that we all have to do at our organization. I think it's a thing that a lot of community based organizations have to do as well. You know, as we look at the impact of our work from from previously, how can we do better?

Can we go good? Better? How? Every time we do something, and that's a big thing that we've tried to push forward. So that was a lot with our genesis was good, better how we would analyze everything that we did and try to get better. As we look to the future, I think that's going to be a big part is is okay.

[00:41:50] Rita Burke: Then before Elton wraps up our session today, which has been truly wonderful. Is there anything that we did not ask you? Did you want to share with our audience?

[00:42:00] Kev Lawler: I think the one thing that I would say is as we look to sort of move out, um, I look at the community landscape in Toronto and beyond, and there's sometimes because organizations rely on funding, often government, and don't be afraid to collaborate. You can't be everything to everybody. If you can be a subject matter expert in a specific area, and you can collaborate and therefore make sustaining sustainable meaningful change over time and focusing on the outcomes.

And if you can do that by collaboration with folks. Who are better than you at specific areas or folks that are better resource to add value in a sustainable way, do it. Collaboration is, is so, so, so important. We do three things and they all revolve around careers. We do not pivot off careers. And there's a reason why we don't.

Because there's people out there who are better than us at other areas. And I want to work with them to make meaningful impact. So we don't do a hell of a lot. Around, um, uh, education and training. And the reason why we don't, uh, is because there's folks who do that, that have certifications attached to them.

Now, we have programming and careers and things of that nature, but we, we stick in our lane and we collaborate. And I think that's a really big key is. I've noticed sometimes specifically in Ontario, not so much in, in, not so much in Manitoba and Alberta so far we'll see as our journey, our journey continues is folks are often a little bit hesitant to collaborate for fear of competition.

Being territorial funding and things of that nature, maybe losing funding, maybe, maybe, um, you know, opening up a network too large to folks. I'm a big believer in collaboration. And I think that's actually how we get better. If you look at business, businesses run really well when you have cross functional teams.

So you don't just sit there and go, the tech department does everything. The best teams in an organization is Tech's involved, finance is involved, marketing's involved, uh, hiring's involved, because you have to have the right people there, project management is involved, and that's how initiatives are being rolled out now.

Cross functional teams seem to be the best way to get things done. I think that needs to be the way in community as well. I think we have lots of amazing brains. If we put them all together, we can architect solutions that can actually make a change. Leave our egos at the door. Let's focus on the outcomes and collaborate.

[00:44:21] Elton Brown: There was a saying that a very smart individual that we both know told me, and it didn't hit me until maybe weeks after the interview and that is about how to accelerate change and that is freeing ourselves from our silos. And this was a mind blowing event for me when it finally did hit me. Wow. Can you imagine if we had five or six organizations band together and then you instead of having 100 people trying to move forward, you now you have a thousand people moving forward.

Can you imagine the amount of progress that we could make in a shorter period of time? So I think that your organization is the epitome of releasing a lot of organizations from their silos, and I can see that your success will be sustainable. I mean, you work with marginalized communities, you work with big name individuals like pinball, you work with a lot of other organizations, and all of them about collaboration, about exchanging ideas and not be afraid to throw things up against the wall and see what sticks.

I really appreciate your enthusiasm. I appreciate the fact that you spent so much time with us this morning. I wasn't expecting that, but it's a very good thing. And I'm very, very happy about that. And, you know, I hope that in the future that we have another conversation with you because I'm sure a year from now, it'll be a whole different ball game and probably have a whole new set of individuals in addition to the ones that are working for you now.

And let's talk. Let's keep in in sync with one another. I'm sure that in the future, we can help one another. I mean, you've already started by you said that you're going to give us a couple of individuals that you think would be, um, most beneficial for our organization. And I do appreciate that very much. And I hope that your organization continues to thrive. And tell Pinball. Next time you see him, I said, hello,

[00:46:52] Kev Lawler: I will most definitely do that. I appreciate both of your time. And, uh, you did a really cool thing here, by the way, like, uh, the opportunity for me to come, I could talk to legs from under a galloping horse.

So the opportunity to come on and natter about my work, uh, is, uh, it's something I, I, I love doing and I would do it every day. So first of all, count me in, I will be back and hopefully, uh, have lots of lovely numbers and growth to talk about what you folks and, uh, Yeah, I'm more than happy. I have some, the wheels are always spinning in between my ears.

So, uh, more than happy to, uh, to connect you with some folks that, that, uh, that would make for stimulating conversation and hopefully elevate that. This is the main thing as well, is that these conversations, what we're hoping to do here is amplify and elevate. So, uh, yeah, appreciate you both very much. I very much enjoyed the chat.

[00:47:39] Rita Burke: Thank you. 

[00:47:39] Elton Brown: Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International! If you wish to contact Mr. Kev Lawler, please leave your name, your email address. Send the reason why you wish to contact Mr. Lawler to www.whiteboardcollective.com or you can DM him via LinkedIn.

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